On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
waiting for the parts. What more do you want?

You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things.

Leonard, I'm not arguing with you. Call 1-800-4-my-home and demand to
speak to a tech if you want to know the answer to that. All I do is
sell the tv's and somebody else twists the screwdriver on them. They
may or may not be the world's best techs but we're the only big box
that has them and they seem to impress most everybody who isn't a
competing "mom & pop" tech in my own personal experience.

"HDTV-slingr" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
waiting for the parts. What more do you want?

You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this
mean?
"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things.

Leonard, I'm not arguing with you. Call 1-800-4-my-home and demand to
speak to a tech if you want to know the answer to that. All I do is
sell the tv's and somebody else twists the screwdriver on them. They
may or may not be the world's best techs but we're the only big box
that has them and they seem to impress most everybody who isn't a
competing "mom & pop" tech in my own personal experience.

I don't mean to argue, but when you repeat the hype like "factory trained"
it leaves an impression that IME is unjustified.

BTW, at the last training that I went to where there were no Sears techs,
there were a bunch that work for Best Buy.

Leonard

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:10:56 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

I don't mean to argue, but when you repeat the hype like "factory trained"
it leaves an impression that IME is unjustified.

Sorry, Leonard, I'm not a tech so I'm not aware of the sematics of the
techhie terms so if I'm abusing any of those, please just correct it
and give me a pass.

In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
camper! Why would I have a problem with that?

If rebuilding a diode takes 3 hours and swapping out a board takes 10
minutes, again, as a consumer, I'm just fine with that and in fact
would be happier with the latter.

BTW, at the last training that I went to where there were no Sears techs,
there were a bunch that work for Best Buy.

Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.

To Best Buy's credit, have you seen their addition of the "Geek
Squad"? I don't know if they are employees or contractors but they
will be going on calls to customers' homes to hook up DVD players,
computers, etc. (not actually performing technical repairs or anything
like that), for a fee.

What a great idea, if it's reasonably priced. I know Sears charges a
regular service call fee to go do stuff like that, which would cost an
arm and a leg.

I have a feeling BB's "Geek Squad" will help boost their sales (which
they hardly need... lol). I love the name!

"HDTV-slingr" wrote in message
...
In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
camper! Why would I have a problem with that?

For warranty repairs it is not a problem, unless the board happens to have
an EEPROM on it and the entire set needs to be realigned. Few techs will
ever get it right. For out of warranty repairs, board swapping is very
expensive in many cases. It is unlikely that for out of warranty repairs
that they will carry all the boards to repair even most sets. Also, board
swappers rarely develop the troubleshooting skills to really solve problems.

If rebuilding a diode takes 3 hours and swapping out a board takes 10
minutes, again, as a consumer, I'm just fine with that and in fact
would be happier with the latter.

Unless replacing the board costs a couple of hundred $ more, and/or leaves
the set looking like crap because all of the original service parameters
were lost.

Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.

Not true in all areas. In south Florida they do. I have met a number of
them over the past couple of years. Overall, I'd generally buy from Sears,
but the point is that you can't generalize as much as you do and be sure
that you are getting the best service nor price. It is best to shop for
both.

To Best Buy's credit, have you seen their addition of the "Geek
Squad"? I don't know if they are employees or contractors but they
will be going on calls to customers' homes to hook up DVD players,
computers, etc. (not actually performing technical repairs or anything
like that), for a fee.

They are mostly not capable of more than a basic hookup.

What a great idea, if it's reasonably priced. I know Sears charges a
regular service call fee to go do stuff like that, which would cost an
arm and a leg.

I have a feeling BB's "Geek Squad" will help boost their sales (which
they hardly need... lol). I love the name!

If they pay the geeks like they pay their sales people they will be another
embarrassment.

Leonard

"Julie" wrote in message
...

I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.

On what products? How often? What percentage of their techs get them?


What do you recommend instead of Sears?

I recommend that you ask some tough questions of Sears or any servicer. You
should check out all of the options and you will likely find that the best
tech for your set is not at Sears. If you do, and the prices are
reasonable, then you should use Sears. In most markets you will find better
techs fixing sets more effectively at lower prices at independent servicers
and independent dealers who service what they sell. You have to shop for
service just like you shop to buy the product.

At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or
if
there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a
new
(equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an
intermittent
screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near
the
end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new
at
the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new
Hitachi
60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts
are
willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...

Virtually any reputable dealer can sell you a service contract that will do
the same. You have to shop and ask the tough questions, but you can usually
do better than the service contract at Sears. Like everyone else, margins
at Sears are much higher on service contracts than on the product.
Negotiate and read the fine print.

Chances are pretty good that Hitachi would have done the same if the set
could not be fixed. There was a customer that we serviced a while back that
had a set nearly three years old that had a problem that could not be fixed
and we arranged for them to exchange it for a new model for the customer.
The set was purchased at Circuit City and there was no extended warranty.
Over the years I have administered hundreds of thousands of dollars of
repairs on products out of the warranty period that manufacturers have
covered, including replacing entire sets as old as 5 years. I have also
seen extended warranty companies do the same thing. Most of the better
policies have a "lemon" clause.

Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for service
in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what they
want you to do. It is also foolish.

Leonard

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:25:58 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
camper! Why would I have a problem with that?

For warranty repairs it is not a problem, unless the board happens to have
an EEPROM on it and the entire set needs to be realigned. Few techs will
ever get it right. For out of warranty repairs, board swapping is very
expensive in many cases. It is unlikely that for out of warranty repairs
that they will carry all the boards to repair even most sets. Also, board
swappers rarely develop the troubleshooting skills to really solve problems.

Ahhh, I see what you mean. Yeah, as far as out of warranty repairs
go, I cannot recommend Sears nor can I say anything negative as it is
not anything I have any experience with. While the service
departments do get called quite a bit to do repairs on all sorts of
things, whether purchased from Sears or not, I've no personal
experience with them.

Yeah, I was only touting the service department as part of a good
selling point for the retailer as a whole.... the fact that Sears
performs any and all warranty work on the TV's and appliances it sells
sets it apart from all other major retailers.

Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.

Not true in all areas. In south Florida they do. I have met a number of
them over the past couple of years. Overall, I'd generally buy from Sears,
but the point is that you can't generalize as much as you do and be sure
that you are getting the best service nor price. It is best to shop for
both.

Leonard, now you've got me curious and a bit confused because it has
long been touted by Sears that all other major retailers have
independent contractors and/or they refer the customer to the
manufacter for all warranty work.

Are you absolutely certain those guys in those areas are not
independent contractors? Because one of our former employees who was
fired (but still a friend of mine that I stay in touch with) has
confirmed to me that BB uses local, independent contractors
nationwide.

It is possible that in some areas where large, high volume BB stores
exist, a small, independent contracting company is doing the BB
warranty work through an exclusive arrangement, thereby giving the
*appearance* of being BB themselves. However; technically speaking,
it is indeed a totally independent company with absolutely no alliance
with BB other than to fix their TV's in that particular territory.

Sears does this too but in deliveries (not service) and it creates a
lot of fires we salespeople have to put out constantly. For example,
Sears will not personally deliver to certain locations within our
metro area. In these instances, we use a local delivery firm that
exclusively does these "special" deliveries, "swap outs", etc. Some
of these people are rude with the customers or are just plain ignorant
with them.

The customers are constantly complaining to we and our management
about "instances" they have had with this company and we've lost quite
a few sales due to them. In one instance, a customer receiving a
Grand Vega 60" was told "Hitachi is better than Sony" and I ended up
losing a huge sale because I could not convince the customer this guy
didn't even work for Sears and didn't know his ass from a hole in the
ground.

This is just ONE example - it happens all too often and our store has
been trying to replace this company for some time. Problem is, we're
locked in w/them for another 2 years! I can see where the customers
are confused, too... the manager gave these clowns a ton of Sears
shirts. They are generally, unshaven and unkept looking and have the
IQ of a rock but people see the unmarked vans coming up their driveway
and these clowns jump out of the cabs wearing Sears shirts... of
COURSE the appearance is given that Sears is their direct employer.

I think you get my point. Sorry for being so long-winded. I've
enjoyed your informative responses :-)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:

"Julie" wrote in message
...

I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.

On what products? How often? What percentage of their techs get them?


What do you recommend instead of Sears?

I recommend that you ask some tough questions of Sears or any servicer. You
should check out all of the options and you will likely find that the best
tech for your set is not at Sears. If you do, and the prices are
reasonable, then you should use Sears. In most markets you will find better
techs fixing sets more effectively at lower prices at independent servicers
and independent dealers who service what they sell. You have to shop for
service just like you shop to buy the product.

At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or
if
there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a
new
(equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an
intermittent
screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near
the
end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new
at
the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new
Hitachi
60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts
are
willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...

Virtually any reputable dealer can sell you a service contract that will do
the same. You have to shop and ask the tough questions, but you can usually
do better than the service contract at Sears. Like everyone else, margins
at Sears are much higher on service contracts than on the product.
Negotiate and read the fine print.

Chances are pretty good that Hitachi would have done the same if the set
could not be fixed. There was a customer that we serviced a while back that
had a set nearly three years old that had a problem that could not be fixed
and we arranged for them to exchange it for a new model for the customer.
The set was purchased at Circuit City and there was no extended warranty.
Over the years I have administered hundreds of thousands of dollars of
repairs on products out of the warranty period that manufacturers have
covered, including replacing entire sets as old as 5 years. I have also
seen extended warranty companies do the same thing. Most of the better
policies have a "lemon" clause.

Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for service
in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what they
want you to do. It is also foolish.

Leonard

My 3 year service contract on a $4000 set w/ Sears was $199. It is a waste of
my time and money to do any more research at that price. At the end of the 3
years, the set, out of warranty, moves up to the bedroom and I head back to the
store for the latest and greatest.

"HDTV-slingr" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:25:58 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
camper! Why would I have a problem with that?

For warranty repairs it is not a problem, unless the board happens to
have
an EEPROM on it and the entire set needs to be realigned. Few techs will
ever get it right. For out of warranty repairs, board swapping is very
expensive in many cases. It is unlikely that for out of warranty repairs
that they will carry all the boards to repair even most sets. Also,
board
swappers rarely develop the troubleshooting skills to really solve
problems.

Ahhh, I see what you mean. Yeah, as far as out of warranty repairs
go, I cannot recommend Sears nor can I say anything negative as it is
not anything I have any experience with. While the service
departments do get called quite a bit to do repairs on all sorts of
things, whether purchased from Sears or not, I've no personal
experience with them.

Yeah, I was only touting the service department as part of a good
selling point for the retailer as a whole.... the fact that Sears
performs any and all warranty work on the TV's and appliances it sells
sets it apart from all other major retailers.

Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.

Not true in all areas. In south Florida they do. I have met a number of
them over the past couple of years. Overall, I'd generally buy from
Sears,
but the point is that you can't generalize as much as you do and be sure
that you are getting the best service nor price. It is best to shop for
both.

Leonard, now you've got me curious and a bit confused because it has
long been touted by Sears that all other major retailers have
independent contractors and/or they refer the customer to the
manufacter for all warranty work.

Anytime ALL or EVERY are used in the retail or service industries you can
assume that the statement is wrong. Most of the time this is true.

Are you absolutely certain those guys in those areas are not
independent contractors? Because one of our former employees who was
fired (but still a friend of mine that I stay in touch with) has
confirmed to me that BB uses local, independent contractors
nationwide.

Most of the time this is true. They apparently do have their own service
depots in some areas. They have a facility, trucks, and employees with
their logo on them and they claim to work for Best Buy. The operation may
be run for them by someone else, I am not sure about the specifics of their
business. I do know that they were recently shopping our market for techs,
and were reportedly expanding their service area here, but apparently they
had no success. Finding experienced techs is next to impossible these days.

It is possible that in some areas where large, high volume BB stores
exist, a small, independent contracting company is doing the BB
warranty work through an exclusive arrangement, thereby giving the
*appearance* of being BB themselves. However; technically speaking,
it is indeed a totally independent company with absolutely no alliance
with BB other than to fix their TV's in that particular territory.

Like I said above, I don't know the details of their business. The guys at
the manufacturer's training that I went to recently seem to think they work
for BB.

Sears does this too but in deliveries (not service) and it creates a
lot of fires we salespeople have to put out constantly. For example,
Sears will not personally deliver to certain locations within our
metro area. In these instances, we use a local delivery firm that
exclusively does these "special" deliveries, "swap outs", etc. Some
of these people are rude with the customers or are just plain ignorant
with them.

Some Sears service techs are not much better. They seem to have trouble
with anything that is not on the troubleshooting chart or the symptom-repair
database. To be fair, this is pretty typical. My point is, as always,
don't be satisfied with the typical, shop for the exceptional. Otherwise,
the bar keeps getting set lower. Sears is perhaps better than the industry
in general, but that would not cut it for me if I were shopping for service,
nor will it cut it in my shop.

The customers are constantly complaining to we and our management
about "instances" they have had with this company and we've lost quite
a few sales due to them. In one instance, a customer receiving a
Grand Vega 60" was told "Hitachi is better than Sony" and I ended up
losing a huge sale because I could not convince the customer this guy
didn't even work for Sears and didn't know his ass from a hole in the
ground.

This is just ONE example - it happens all too often and our store has
been trying to replace this company for some time. Problem is, we're
locked in w/them for another 2 years! I can see where the customers
are confused, too... the manager gave these clowns a ton of Sears
shirts. They are generally, unshaven and unkept looking and have the
IQ of a rock but people see the unmarked vans coming up their driveway
and these clowns jump out of the cabs wearing Sears shirts... of
COURSE the appearance is given that Sears is their direct employer.

I think you get my point. Sorry for being so long-winded. I've
enjoyed your informative responses :-)

Very clearly. Don't get me wrong, I think Sears is generally much better
than BB or the competition. They do have their problems, however, like
every big organization. They are not an exception to my rule that
everything deserves to be shopped carefully for VALUE, not just for price.
That means you need to understand the whole story and assume nothing.

Leonard

"Julie" wrote in message
...
Leonard Caillouet wrote:
Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for
service
in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what
they
want you to do. It is also foolish.

Leonard

My 3 year service contract on a $4000 set w/ Sears was $199. It is a
waste of
my time and money to do any more research at that price. At the end of
the 3
years, the set, out of warranty, moves up to the bedroom and I head back
to the
store for the latest and greatest.

Sounds like a good deal. If you are happy with it, that is all that really
matters.

Leonard

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:43:16 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

I think you get my point. Sorry for being so long-winded. I've
enjoyed your informative responses :-)

Very clearly. Don't get me wrong, I think Sears is generally much better
than BB or the competition. They do have their problems, however, like
every big organization. They are not an exception to my rule that
everything deserves to be shopped carefully for VALUE, not just for price.
That means you need to understand the whole story and assume nothing.

I agree, Leonard. Some people are just dead set on getting the lowest
price out the door but they don't think about things that can happen
down the road. I'll say it again - in general, you can't beat the
service of a reputable, family-owned "mom & pop". It's not cheap but
it's within reasonable limits and the service is better than any big
box. They may not have the margins the big boxes have but there is
something to be said for being able to buy your TV directly from the
same person who will fix that TV if there are problems with it down
the road.