In article
(Mr. Viagra) writes:


Up until last week, I worked for Best Buy for 22 months in the Home
Theater dept. For 22 months, I was placed under EXTREME pressure to
sell their PERFORMANCE SERVICE PLAN to 'every customer, every time.'

IMHO, BBY exaggerates to the extreme, the so-called 'need' for their
PSP. The bottom line is that a $400 PSP costs BBY less than $100 and
it is a HUGE source of revenue. I was instructed to 'tell the customer
whatever was necessary' in order to close the sale for a PSP.

Yes, things can go wrong after a mfg's warranty expires--but as long
as the unit is protected by a high quality surge protector, the chance
of anything failing is minimal on a high quality product. My advice
would be: If you plan on keeping the set for more than 4 yrs and use
it a lot, it might be worth considering--However, w/all the
technologiical advances coming at such a rapid pace, you might be
surprised that you'd be willing to 'upgrade' your set in 4 yrs, and do
w/o handing BBY another $300 in pure profit.

Mr. V. is absolutely correct on all points.

....and it's not just Best Buy either. Sears, Circuit City, Tweeter,
independent retailers, etc., along with virtually all automobile
dealerships ***PUSH*** these plans because they are *extremely*
profit-laden. Minimum 100% markup, occasionally as much as 400%. In most
retail stores (Sears, etc) the salesperson's performance is measured not
so much by their gross volume of sales as it is by how many of these
service plans (extended warranties, maintenance agreements, etc) they are
able to sell to their customers. The product pretty much sells itself, or
your customer has already decided which one they want. Prices are already
cut to the bone due to local competition. Therefore, your job as
salesperson is to **SELL** the customer on the embellishments! Faten the
deal! Convince them that their new $2000 widget not only -might- melt but
no doubt *will* melt like chocolate on the stove if they don't protect it
right now with this plan!!! Their pay and bonuses (and even job tenure)
are in large part predicated on their ability to successfully sell the
contracts.

The "high quality" surge protector is an excellent idea, but what's he
mean by high quality? No one teaches a course in Quality Recognition
anymore, so how do you know what to buy? Hint: quality doesn't come cheap.

In my opinion, the several hundred you're going to **** away on some
"protection plan" might be much better spent on a sufficiently-sized UPS
(backup power supply) that includes over-voltage as well as under-voltage
protection, sometimes referred to as "Buck 'N Boost" technology. Buck 'N
Boost/sinewave UPS systems are considerably more expensive than the
el-cheapo hundred-dollar variety currently being sold at SAM's Club, but
are the only ones really worth having. Here is one example of a very
excellent UPS that I can personally recommend as being up to the task;
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=18
total cost (including shipping) is $399.28 from buy.com in fact, here's
the link if you'd like to order one;
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10224166&SearchEngine=PriceWatch&S earchTerm=10224166&Type=PE&Category=Comp&dcaid=168 8

I am not affiliated with this mfr or product or the retailer in any way.
Merely a very satisfied and very pleased customer.

Thanks for clearing this up. I assume my bad experience with warrenty
repair work wasn't the fault of Best Buy. Staying on the subject,
there's still very little value in extended warrenties. From an
engineering standpoint, electronic products operate on a "bathtub
curve":

Life span of consumer electronic device, chance of failu

High \ /
\ /
\ /
Low ------------
|****|
*extneded warrenty coverage

As is taught in any school of engineering, if anything serious is
going to go wrong (with any manufactured product relying on
components) it will happen near the begining or the end of the life of
the product. On consumer electronics products the acuracy of this
curve is somewhere between 75-85%. The majority of the time, the
chance of something going wrong is extreemly low, this makes the
decision to buy an extended warrenty a very bad choice for the
consumer and a very good thing for the retailer.

Having said that, instead of complicating their extended warrenties as
Best Buy does by making consumers wait 4-6 weeks and having strick
policies against exchanging product under extended warrenty. Some
retailers will take the opportunity to demonstrate outstanding service
when they are required to honor an extended warrenty. One such
retailer is Electronics Boutique/EB (popular mall outlet retailer for
computer and video games). Having worked as an assistant manager for
this chain, I am aware of their policies (which may have changed, it's
been six years). Electronics Boutique had a policy for extended
warrenties where if anything went wrong within the 3 year "extended
warrenty" period they would exchange old product for new (identical)
product, no questions ask and no waiting period.

Buy an extended warrenty at Best Buy and the best case you could hope
for is to wait four weeks to get back your product in working order.
Worse case, you're going to have to wait eighteen weeks (three six
week periods) and you'll be given someone elses "refurbished" product
at the end. You'll likely come in somewhere inbetween best and worse
case. Regardless, you're most likely giving the retailer free money.

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:44:26 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

That's still true. Sears is the ONLY major retailer that performs
it's own warranty work. Sears employees wearing Sears uniforms,
trained by the individual manufacturers, driving Sears vans turn the
screwdrivers on all of the televisions they sell... when it comes to
selling & servicing appliances and electronics, Sears is a HUGE "mom &
pop" in that sense.

That does not mean that they are any good, nor that they are a good value
for service. In this market, I have had to go behind Sears techs who had
not a clue about how to deal with very routine service problems.

Actually, if you look at the Consumer Reports online, you'll find that
Sears' servicing organization ranks #1. They are good and they know
what they're doing.

I'm not referring to the Sears extended warranty / "Maintenence &
Protection Agreement", just the abililty of the techs to perform the
work to factory standards. The techs aren't perfect but they're
ranked #1. Something to be said for that.

On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:29:33 GMT, wrote:

Also, maybe Sears does their own work, I'm not sure, but I'd bet
dollars to donuts none of these retailers have factory-trained staff
sitting around waiting for a DLP set to crap out. It's all contracted
out to a few local "factory authorized" service centers.

You're correct - Sears does their own warranty work with
factory-trained techs with experience on DLP's, LCD's CRT's, etc. As
I understand it, in some places, Sears techs actually perform the
warranty work under contract for other retailers. Those Sears vans
travelling around your town are carrying factory parts and
factory-trained Sears employees who are performing warranty repairs at
manufacturer standards. No other major retailer does this.

"HDTV-slingr" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 08:44:26 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:

That's still true. Sears is the ONLY major retailer that performs
it's own warranty work. Sears employees wearing Sears uniforms,
trained by the individual manufacturers, driving Sears vans turn the
screwdrivers on all of the televisions they sell... when it comes to
selling & servicing appliances and electronics, Sears is a HUGE "mom &
pop" in that sense.

That does not mean that they are any good, nor that they are a good value
for service. In this market, I have had to go behind Sears techs who had
not a clue about how to deal with very routine service problems.

Actually, if you look at the Consumer Reports online, you'll find that
Sears' servicing organization ranks #1. They are good and they know
what they're doing.

I'm not referring to the Sears extended warranty / "Maintenence &
Protection Agreement", just the abililty of the techs to perform the
work to factory standards. The techs aren't perfect but they're
ranked #1. Something to be said for that.

Ranked #1 compared to what? The competition that a consumer has to choose
from did not get considered in those rankings. That is like saying that
Monster Cable is the #1 maker of overpriced cables. It doesn't mean that
what they are selling is a good value. Factory standards, BTW, is largely a
myth. Other than board swapping as a standard practice, Sears doesn't do
much of anything that maintains "factory standards." I have seen some
pretty lousy substitute parts used by Sears techs because they wanted to
"fix" the set without having to make a return trip rather than repair it
correctly.

One of the problems with a big system like Sears is that as soon as
something is encountered that is a little "out of the box" or not on the
troubleshooting chart, they become ineffective. Like shopping for
electronics, CU is not going to tell you much useful information.

Most service is still provided mostly by independent servicers and dealers
and you will find that, like Sears, the quality of the service varies from
terrible to excellent. It will depend mostly on the experience and
professionalism of the tech that happens to be doing the work. Most
experienced techs would not even consider working for Sears.

So how do you find the best service? It takes some effort and is not easy.
First, you need TALK to each shop. The ones that are any good will usually
be willing to discuss how they charge for repairs and what they will be
doing at each step in the process. They will have experience on your
specific product and have access to the service literature and test
equipment needed. They are likely to be an ASC for the manufacturer of your
product, but not necessarily. I recommend getting to know the local
servicers before you buy. Find out what the service options are on the
products you are considering and only buy products that you are confident
have good quality service support locally.

Otherwise, you can spend $96 for a service call from Sears only to have the
tech give you an estimate that your $250 problems will cost you $600 because
they want to swap boards rather than repair the problem. At least that's
what I have seen happen in our market.

The fact is that most servicers are pretty lousy, including Sears. There
will be a handful of good techs in most markets (some at Sears) and many
more who are half-assed yahoos that will do whatever it takes to get your
money as quickly as possible. Anyone who thinks a large service operation
like Sears is going to protect you from this reality is deluded.

Leonard

In article [email protected] "Leonard Caillouet"
writes:

[snip to the chase...]

Otherwise, you can spend $96 for a service call from Sears only to have the
tech give you an estimate that your $250 problems will cost you $600 because
they want to swap boards rather than repair the problem. At least that's
what I have seen happen in our market.

The fact is that most servicers are pretty lousy, including Sears. There
will be a handful of good techs in most markets (some at Sears) and many
more who are half-assed yahoos that will do whatever it takes to get your
money as quickly as possible. Anyone who thinks a large service operation
like Sears is going to protect you from this reality is deluded.

Leonard makes some excellent points.

Almost any minimum-wage high school dropout, with little more than the
I.Q. of a common houseplant and only 15 minutes of training, can bench
your expensive system, follow a troubleshooting chart, swap an expensive
subassembly and charge you full price for the new board. It might get you
going, but that's not a "repair" and furthermore you just got hosed.

It is not at all uncommon for these shops to subsequently send out the
pullout boards, pay a flat rate of $50 each to actually get them
"repaired" (whether they're bad or not) and return them to inventory so
they can shotgun someone elses set and charge them $600 again.

Darn few "repair" shops are in existence anymore because those techs are
the true craftspersons and command a living wage. If you're fortunate
enough to find an honest-to-God "repair" shop, keep them in your Rolodex.
If you find that they actually specialize in servicing a specific brand,
or they recommend a certain brand, then that might be the brand you ought
to be considering.

In article
(Mr. Viagra) writes:


The suggestion of a power supply backup is excellent and in my
opinion, money much better spent than on $400 for a PSP.

Perhaps I need to clarify the use of the term 'high quality surge
suppressor'--

Surge prtection units are rated in 'Joules'--the higher the joule
rating, the greater protection. You can 'throw away' money for an
overpriced Monster Power Center, rated at around 1400 joules ($140) or
buy an 'Acoustic Research' also sold by BBY for $40, 2150 joules--both
have 'clean power filtering' to help
eliminate noise from the AC line. The A R is just as efficient as the
'comparable' Monster for $100 less--BBY cost on these units--The A R,
$16, the Monster, $70. I sold these things day-in, day-out--I know
from where I speak.

Rule no. 1: Avoid "Monster" brand products - they are a ripoff and hype
Rule no. 2: See rule no. 1

If anyone bothered to follow the link I gave to a recommended backup power
supply, http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=18 you
would have noticed that it provides 1800 Joules of surge protection with
an "instantaneous" response time and $200,000.00 worth of connected
equipment insurance. In other words, the manufacturer (TrippLite) is
pretty doggone sure this one single unit will give you all the protection
you might possibly need. Just *MAKE SURE* you also connect your TIVO
and/or Satellite receiver to the phone line protector.

If you want to spend $400 for a "protection plan" this device is the only
"plan" I would choose and provides the best bang for the buck. You will
definitely get your moneys worth out of this unit. In (typically) 4 to 6
years when the batteries need replacing, you can replace them for less
than $100 and get another 4 to 6 years out of it meanwhile your extended
warranty service plan will have long since expired and not be renewable.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 06:27:32 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote:


Actually, if you look at the Consumer Reports online, you'll find that
Sears' servicing organization ranks #1. They are good and they know
what they're doing.

I'm not referring to the Sears extended warranty / "Maintenence &
Protection Agreement", just the abililty of the techs to perform the
work to factory standards. The techs aren't perfect but they're
ranked #1. Something to be said for that.

Ranked #1 compared to what? The competition that a consumer has to choose
from did not get considered in those rankings.

Leonard, you make excellent points. I'm just stating the fact that
consumerreports.org has Sears ranked #1. Outside of that, I don't
have enough info to argue with you, only that most of the customers
I've personally dealt with seemed to be fairly to highly satisfied
with Sears' servicing techs, while a few others (every here and there)
are not satisfied at all. I guess it's just like anything else that
is consumer oriented... you can't please everybody all the time but
you can certainly try to and I believe Sears *tries*.

Maybe this concept exists and I just don't know about it, but if it
doesn't it might be a great business opportunity for someone. The
concept is to be an independent repair (local) service that is
authorized to work on these various new HDTVs, but one that you don't
necessarily buy at the place where you bought the set.

I seems that without the rape and pillage prices that a BB,Tweeter, or
whomever charges you, an independent company could sell you the exact
same quality service plan for 50% of the normal $400-$500 and still
make a profit. It's basically an insurance policy. Whether or not
this could blossom into a franchise business is up in the air, but
everyone I know who has worked at an appliance store admits that the
profit margin in the extended warranty plans is in the hundreds of
percent.

OTH, you could also attempt to negotiate a lower price for the plan
when you buy, but if you don't have any competition, the store will
hold the best cards.

On 30 Sep 2004 09:57:18 -0700, (Jim) wrote:

Hi, we purchased a Samsung 61" DLP HDTV almost a month ago and we are
still debating the purchase of the Best Buy Service Plan. We have
some concerns, however:

1) Our TV was purchased on sale for approx. $3800-3900, the service
plan price quoted was $400 for 4 years. This seems high to me. Is
it?

2) Is Best Buy reliable with their service? ie. Will they do what
they say? We are interested in knowing if anyone has had any
experience with actually trying to get things fixed.

3) We felt the sales manager was exaggerating with his stories of all
that could go wrong, even in the first year, with these TV's. He had
horror stories of possible $1500 repairs and such. At the minimum he
suggested that the bulb would need to be replaced at least every 2
years, which at $200/bulb would recoup the cost of the service plan.
I question this. With a 6000 hour bulb life, say we watch a maximum
of 5 hours/day on average, that gives us 1200 days which is over 3
years.

4) We are not even sure the service plan WILL cover the bulb as the
sales manager claims. It does not specifically mention the bulb. It
does offer "complete coverage if your product fails due to normal wear
and tear/usage", BUT it also says "not covered are replacement costs
for lost or consumable parts (knobs, remotes, batteries, bags, belts,
etc.)" We are afraid they could argue that a bulb is a "consumable
part".

We are not naive enough to think that just because the sales manager
says something is covered, that it is. I have read the performance
plan brochure carefully, and unfortunately, it is written for a
variety of products and not specifically for an HDTV.

So, should we or shouldn't we? $400 is a lot of money and we don't
want to throw it away. Thanks!