Please recommend 60" LCD or DLP TV
 

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I bought a new Sony Grand Wega
KF60-WE610. Got a good deal on it, money-wise, as a floor model @ 20% off
and got Ultimate Electronics to knock about half off the stand it sits on.
Beautiful TV, beautiful picture; we love it.

Unfortunately, it is already beginning to show early symptoms of the lamp
circuitry problem that, as I have found out recently, this model (and its
42" & 50" sisters) have been plagued with. Our TV was built in January,
2004, supposedly the last month with the problems but definitely part of the
problem run. Anyone who is interested can put the model number and "lamp
problem" into Google and find plenty of reading material about it.

Right now, it has just started to be recalcitrant, from time to time, about
powering-up. Sometimes fine, sometimes makes a weird "zinging" noise a few
times before coming up, this morning it just refused to come on at all until
the 3rd or 4th try with the power button. Eventually, it stops working,
apparently, and Sony has to install a new lamp, at the least, or new
circuits at the most. Either way, it's not something that happens
overnight. No good. We will take advantage of our 30-day satisfaction
guarantee from Ultimate Electronics and take it back this weekend.

My wife wants a 60" or something close to it. The Sony 50", even one made
recently with the lamp problem supposedly fixed, is not going to do it. And
there do not seem to be more of this model out there; I think they have quit
making them. Sony makes an XBR 60" but it's a lot more money and I could
not see anything in it that I needed, anyway. So, recommendations for an
LCD or DLP around the 60" size?

I have read that the Hitachi's come highly recommended and have few service
problems. Have also read good things about Toshiba's. But I don't know
anything about particular models. Advice, please.

Mack McKinnon wrote:

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I bought a new Sony Grand Wega
KF60-WE610. Got a good deal on it, money-wise, as a floor model @ 20% off
and got Ultimate Electronics to knock about half off the stand it sits on.
Beautiful TV, beautiful picture; we love it.

Unfortunately, it is already beginning to show early symptoms of the lamp
circuitry problem that, as I have found out recently, this model (and its
42" & 50" sisters) have been plagued with. Our TV was built in January,
2004, supposedly the last month with the problems but definitely part of the
problem run. Anyone who is interested can put the model number and "lamp
problem" into Google and find plenty of reading material about it.

Right now, it has just started to be recalcitrant, from time to time, about
powering-up. Sometimes fine, sometimes makes a weird "zinging" noise a few
times before coming up, this morning it just refused to come on at all until
the 3rd or 4th try with the power button. Eventually, it stops working,
apparently, and Sony has to install a new lamp, at the least, or new
circuits at the most. Either way, it's not something that happens
overnight. No good. We will take advantage of our 30-day satisfaction
guarantee from Ultimate Electronics and take it back this weekend.


If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
any money.

Matthew

"Matthew L. Martin" wrote

If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
any money.

If you read the tales of woe from people who have had this problem and had
to have it fixed via Sony warranties, you would not even ask that question.
I do not relish having this huge TV sitting there as a giant paperweight for
days or weeks while I hassle with Sony to make it good. No thanks. I have
a 30-day satisfaction guarantee that I intend to take full advantage of. If
I were out of that period, then it would be a different story.

mack
austin

"Mack McKinnon" wrote in
message ...

"Matthew L. Martin" wrote

If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
any money.

If you read the tales of woe from people who have had this problem and had
to have it fixed via Sony warranties, you would not even ask that
question.
I do not relish having this huge TV sitting there as a giant paperweight
for
days or weeks while I hassle with Sony to make it good. No thanks. I
have
a 30-day satisfaction guarantee that I intend to take full advantage of.
If
I were out of that period, then it would be a different story.

mack
austin

ALL manufacturers that use the Phillips lamp and ballast are having this
problem. That's Hitachi, Toshiba, MGA, RCA, Sony, Samsung, etc.

Having a set fixed under warranty for a known problem should be a snap
unless there isn't a service center for SONY in your area. In that case
don't buy another Sony...check which Manufacturer has a service center in
your area and check out the service center then buy.

We service Samsung DLP in this area and our customers get service (fixed)
within 3 days on a known problem, some in one day. On an unkown problem
within 5 days average. There is no service for Sony locally so they have to
service out of Tampa (65 miles away) and it has to be scheduled so that adds
days to the repair.

"Jeff Rigby" wrote

ALL manufacturers that use the Phillips lamp and ballast are having this
problem. That's Hitachi, Toshiba, MGA, RCA, Sony, Samsung, etc.

Having a set fixed under warranty for a known problem should be a snap
unless there isn't a service center for SONY in your area. In that case
don't buy another Sony...check which Manufacturer has a service center in
your area and check out the service center then buy.

I will, of course, talk to Ultimate Electronics about the problem before I
hand over the TV. If they surprise me with a service solution via the local
Sony service center, I'll be open to hear about it.

But the last times I have tried to get a Sony anything fixed here in Austin,
there was only one Sony service center. It was always booked up for weeks
and the people were arrogant buttholes. So, I would expect nothing but
unpleasantness trying to deal with them. The words "backorder" and "wait"
would probably figure in. Yes, that is a good reason not to buy Sony
products here in Austin. But perhaps that situation has changed; I will
look into it.

This was a floor model. Would you keep a floor model that you have paid
$3,000 for if it started going out in 2 weeks? I think the service
situation would have to be excellent to tempt me to do that.

On the web, I have not seen reports of other LCD projection sets having the
kind of problem the Sonys have become famous for recently. Not saying they
don't -- you sound like you know -- just that perhaps the problems are not
as prevalent. I don't know.

So, what would you buy? A DLP set?

mack
austin




We service Samsung DLP in this area and our customers get service (fixed)
within 3 days on a known problem, some in one day. On an unkown problem
within 5 days average. There is no service for Sony locally so they have
to
service out of Tampa (65 miles away) and it has to be scheduled so that
adds
days to the repair.

"Mack McKinnon" wrote in
message ...

"Matthew L. Martin" wrote

If you are pleased by the size and image quality and price, why not just
get it fixed? The fix is covered by the warranty, so it won't cost you
any money.

If you read the tales of woe from people who have had this problem and had
to have it fixed via Sony warranties, you would not even ask that
question.
I do not relish having this huge TV sitting there as a giant paperweight
for
days or weeks while I hassle with Sony to make it good. No thanks. I
have
a 30-day satisfaction guarantee that I intend to take full advantage of.
If
I were out of that period, then it would be a different story.

mack
austin

How effectively and efficiently the problem gets fixed depends largely on
the servicer that you use, not on Sony. This problem is really more with
the Philips lamp and ballasts and other manufacturers have expereinced
similar problems. Don't confuse problems with lousy service centers with
Sony or any other manufacturer. When you buy any product, do your homework
and make sure that there is a GOOD, EXPERIENCED authorized service center in
your area.

Leonard

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote

How effectively and efficiently the problem gets fixed depends largely on
the servicer that you use, not on Sony. This problem is really more with
the Philips lamp and ballasts and other manufacturers have expereinced
similar problems. Don't confuse problems with lousy service centers with
Sony or any other manufacturer. When you buy any product, do your
homework
and make sure that there is a GOOD, EXPERIENCED authorized service center
in
your area.

Leonard

I don't have that particular confusion and I agree about the service center.
In the past, my loyalty to Sony products, with which I have had excellent
experience over the years (despite their reported decline in quality) has
swayed me, even though the local service center was far from adequate.

It seems, from researching on the web, that Sony has had much more than
their share of problems with these lamps and they have had further problems
with the circuit boards that support the lamps. I have not seen any
discussion of the lamp problem except with regard to Sony's LCD TV's,
especially those dated prior to February 2004.

mack
austin

"Mack McKinnon" wrote in
message ...

"Leonard Caillouet" wrote

How effectively and efficiently the problem gets fixed depends largely
on
the servicer that you use, not on Sony. This problem is really more
with
the Philips lamp and ballasts and other manufacturers have expereinced
similar problems. Don't confuse problems with lousy service centers
with
Sony or any other manufacturer. When you buy any product, do your
homework
and make sure that there is a GOOD, EXPERIENCED authorized service
center
in
your area.

Leonard

I don't have that particular confusion and I agree about the service
center.
In the past, my loyalty to Sony products, with which I have had excellent
experience over the years (despite their reported decline in quality) has
swayed me, even though the local service center was far from adequate.

It seems, from researching on the web, that Sony has had much more than
their share of problems with these lamps and they have had further
problems
with the circuit boards that support the lamps. I have not seen any
discussion of the lamp problem except with regard to Sony's LCD TV's,
especially those dated prior to February 2004.

mack
austin

That does not mean that other brands have not had problems. If you serviced
the sets and communicated daily with other servicers you would understand
that the problems with the Sony are not disimilar to those of Hitachi and
Samsung, for example. We sell and service these sets and have had no lamp
or ballast failures at all.

Sony is a big arrogant company and is a big target for discussion.
Regardless of the discussion, they make a very good product in most cases,
including this one.

I personally prefer the better DLP and CRT based products, but the Sony LCD
based sets would easily be my choice in a comparison with the lower-tier
performance DLPs.

Leonard

Mack,

Contrary to what some of the other posters have said, my gut instinct
would be to return the set. I'm not basing this on my knowledge of this
particular problem (as I know nothing about it), but instead on my
experience with a similar situation involving my Pioneer, also purchased
from Ultimate Electronics (which in my area is called SoundTrack). If
you're interested, following is what prompted my opinion on this, though
it's rather lengthy...

We bought the Pioneer Elite 730 in December of 2002. For about 3 months
it was great. Then we started noticing, just occasionally, some red
"streaks" or "bands", what would originate at the edges of bright or
white objects or text, and continue clear across the screen to the right
edge.

At first, this would happen maybe once every week, and just for a few
seconds. Then it got more frequent, and lasted longer, till you could
expect it to happen at least once everytime you watched the set,
sometimes lasting for several minutes. I had originally not even know
it was the Pioneer, instead thinking it was something to do with
DirecTV, or the A/V receiver...I was so certain that by spending $6000
on the Pioneer we had gotten the absolute best monitor, that it just
couldn't be that! But when we noticed the same problem on DVD's and
off-air programs, it became clear where the problem was. And by now, we
also saw both blue and green streaking occur, along with the red.

So starting in about May of 2003, it didn't take long on the internet to
find that LOTS of people were having the same problem with the x30
models. I settled on one specific site, www.hometheaterspot.com, that
had hundreds of posts about it. What I learned was that lots of folks
had already had Pioneer and it's "authorized service centers" try lots
of different fixes, none of which got rid of the problem, and often
times broke other things.

So I decided to hold off calling Pioneer about this until I had some
level of confidence that they really had a fix for it, as I didn't want
anyone "experimenting" on my set while trying to solve this. I followed
the forums for a couple more months, watching people get replacements of
various circuit boards, power supplies, diodes, etc. As I said, quite
often these shotgunned repairs not only didn't fix the original problem,
but broke, or at least badly altered, other things.

Finally around Sept of 2003, it appeared Pioneer had a definite fix, as
some people were being told by them that they had identified the true
cause and solution. So I tried opening a case with Pioneer, and the
trouble began...at first, I couldn't even find someone at Pioneer who
would admit that there was such a problem, much less an identified fix.
They all wanted to just send out a local service company to "examine the
set and identify what the problem was", which is what I had been
avoiding for months. After numerous attempts, I finally got ahold of a
Pioneer contact who DID know of the problem, and the supposed-fix, and
opened a case number for me.

But it turned out the parts for the supposed fix were on back-
order...till December! Note that this was early September that I was
calling! So they said they would contact the local service company and
explain the situation to them, and that I would hear from them when the
parts were in. About mid-December, I got the call from the local
company, who set up an appointment to come out with the parts about a
week later. So this would finally get fixed...I thought.

The very day the service company was to come out, I thought I should
check the forums again, since I hadn't done so for about a month. To my
horror, everyone who had already had this new supposed-fix installed was
again having the streaking problem! And a couple of them who had
recently talked with Pioneer were now being told that the original
"true" fix was not the solution, and that there was now a DIFFERENT set
of parts being put together to fix this issue. So I called the local
service company about this, as I didn't want them installing parts that
weren't going to correct the problem. They were clueless...knew nothing
about a "new" fix or a problem with the "old" fix. All they knew was
they had parts that had come in and that they wanted to install them.
So I cancelled that call.

To try and trim this long narrative down, over the next 6 months, I had
one problem after another trying to get this taken care of...Pioneer
again had parts backorderd, local service companies never knew what was
going on, would finally come out and try whatever Pioneer was CLAIMING
would fix the problem, only to find out that the problem never went
away, or would come back after a few days. After 4 separate fix
attempts through June of 2004, the longest the problem went away was 22
days. I even tried to get SoundTrack involved, to see if they could help
with this. But after just one conversation with their "customer service
manager", who said to give Pioneer one last chance, I never heard from
them again, and could never get them to return another call.

Meanwhile, other folks on the forums with this same problem were fed up
and attempting to get refunds from Pioneer. Note that the warranty on
these Elite sets is 2 years. But Pioneer was only offering them a
prorated refund, usually about 40-50% of what the original cost was. So
that basically meant you had "rented" the set for about $1000-$1500 a
year, which sucked.

Finally, Pioneer had the local company try one more repair on our set in
July. It involved replacing all 3 CRT boards, soldering some more new
diodes on, and he "tweaked" some other voltages. Of course, the
calibration on the set was ruined at this point, but the problem
appeared to go away. So after getting the picture back to where it
needs to be, it now looks good again, at least since about mid-July.
But when you think about it, out of the first 19 months I owned the set,
it only worked correctly for about 4 months. The rest of the time was
spent dealing with this ongoing problem, which Pioneer seemed to be very
unresponsive and uninterested in.

But here's the problem...I will NEVER trust this set again. I am always
looking for those streaks to reappear, and just don't feel comfortable
that this is now, or every will be, right. And if the problem DOES
reoccur, I will be stuck either accepting much less for the set than I
paid, or in the worst case if it happens again after December when the 2
year warranty expires, I will be stuck with nothing.

So my advice is, for a known and what seems to be fairly serious problem
like the one you're having, don't risk getting caught in a mess like
this. The manufacturers aren't interested in quickly solving these
things, and have no qualms about making you wait days, weeks, or even
months for a repair. Whether it's under warranty or not makes no
difference. And after they drag out the repair, and make attempt after
attempt, you can still ultimately get stuck with it not being resolved
and no way at that point to recoup your money or your sanity! After
spending top dollar for what I thought was supposed to be one of the
finest RP HDTV's from a supposedly-reputable manufacturer, I couldn't
believe what a horrible experience it has been. And for other folks
with this same problem, the nightmare is still going on.

Just as a side note, SoundTrack's (Ultimate Electronics) extended or in-
house warranties and service seem to be just as bad...my father in-law
purchased a 3-year extended warranty through SoundTrack on his Pioneer
510. When he had a problem last summer (not the same as mine), and
called SoundTrack for service, they told him it would 17 days before
they could even come out to look at the set! Once they did, and
determined the problem, it took them another 10 days to get the parts
in, so he was without his TV for basically a month! So again, I would
say return this thing while you can and try to find something that you
have no qualms about, or at least something that doesn't have a KNOWN
problem at the moment.

"Morbius" wrote in message
.. .
Mack,

Contrary to what some of the other posters have said, my gut instinct
would be to return the set...

So my advice is, for a known and what seems to be fairly serious problem
like the one you're having, don't risk getting caught in a mess like
this. The manufacturers aren't interested in quickly solving these
things, and have no qualms about making you wait days, weeks, or even
months for a repair.

That's what I figure. If I lay out a few grand for a new TV, I want to work
right for a good long time before something breaks. I realize I've been
spoiled by an old technology that had all the kinks worked out of it many
years ago and now we are dealing with some new technologies but, hey, I
still want the thing to work right. If I have a 30-day "satisfaction
guaranteed" period and ANYTHING goes wrong with a 3+ grand set during that
period, I am DIS-satisfied!

Appreciate the long reply. Sad story.

Just as a side note, SoundTrack's (Ultimate Electronics) extended or in-
house warranties and service seem to be just as bad...my father in-law
purchased a 3-year extended warranty through SoundTrack on his Pioneer
510. When he had a problem last summer (not the same as mine), and
called SoundTrack for service, they told him it would 17 days before
they could even come out to look at the set!

They really pushed for that $300 extended warranty but I would have none of
it.

mack
austin