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TOT Those new light bulbs.
Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know
another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. Or have I just been unlucky? PS You can get previous Euromillions results on TVE Internacional text page 472. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
wrote in message
... Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. You could try uk.d-i-y. James |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
wrote in message
... Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. Or have I just been unlucky? PS You can get previous Euromillions results on TVE Internacional text page 472. Presuming you mean halogens - usually rated about 20% less than the GLS equivalent, i.e 48W halogen for a 60W GLS? They should last better and longer than a conventional bulb. It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. In terms of the latter, a halogen bulb has a relatively high inrush current when first switched on. If your switch contacts are old and/or bouncing (and possibly arcing) it can easily blow such a bulb. Try changing one switch where bulbs regularly fail for a good brand such as Crabtree or MK and see what happens. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Which new light bulbs. Not much to go on here.
Brian -- From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active wrote in message ... Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. Or have I just been unlucky? PS You can get previous Euromillions results on TVE Internacional text page 472. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:13:38 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote: Which new light bulbs. Not much to go on here. Brian I know what he means Brian. Since the light bulb "ban" the trend had been for a quartz halogen capsule enclosed in a GLS style envelope. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Tuesday, 21 January 2014 17:03:49 UTC, Woody wrote:
semiretired wrote Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. Or have I just been unlucky? Presuming you mean halogens - usually rated about 20% less than the GLS equivalent, i.e 48W halogen for a 60W GLS? They should last better and longer than a conventional bulb. It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. In terms of the latter, a halogen bulb has a relatively high inrush current when first switched on. If your switch contacts are old and/or bouncing (and possibly arcing) it can easily blow such a bulb. Try changing one switch where bulbs regularly fail for a good brand such as Crabtree or MK and see what happens. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com Many thanks. That makes sense. The bulbs are in table lamps which have been in use for ages. It looks like I should get new lamps - or else go back to the spiral flourescents. Thanks again. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Woody wrote:
It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. Actually they are famously fragile, those halogens. Because the filament is so short compared with the filament in a normal bulb, it has to be ultra-thin to get the right resistance. That's why they are so delicate. For 12V applications the filaments are really tough because they are thick. For 240V it's a different story. I've read somewhere that it's mostly subtle vibrations from the floor or ceiling that does them in, although I don't know for sure whether that is correct. The energy saving is so minimal it isn't worth using them, in my opinion. LED lamps are becoming available now (B&Q, IKEA, online) and I've got them in my table lamps and uplighters. Wonderful, so long as you make sure they're "warm white" or 2700K. -- SteveT |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
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TOT Those new light bulbs.
"Steve Thackery" wrote in message
... Woody wrote: It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. Actually they are famously fragile, those halogens. Because the filament is so short compared with the filament in a normal bulb, it has to be ultra-thin to get the right resistance. That's why they are so delicate. For 12V applications the filaments are really tough because they are thick. For 240V it's a different story. I've read somewhere that it's mostly subtle vibrations from the floor or ceiling that does them in, although I don't know for sure whether that is correct. The energy saving is so minimal it isn't worth using them, in my opinion. LED lamps are becoming available now (B&Q, IKEA, online) and I've got them in my table lamps and uplighters. Wonderful, so long as you make sure they're "warm white" or 2700K. Just hope that you have no AM listeners or radio amateurs nearby as they create horrendous RFI and are known to flicker in the presence of RF (they are diodes after all.) -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard:
Woody wrote: It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. Actually they are famously fragile, those halogens. Because the filament is so short compared with the filament in a normal bulb, it has to be ultra-thin to get the right resistance. That's why they are so delicate. For 12V applications the filaments are really tough because they are thick. For 240V it's a different story. I've read somewhere that it's mostly subtle vibrations from the floor or ceiling that does them in, although I don't know for sure whether that is correct. I moved away from 70W halogens in my living room pendant because they would blow with someone thumping around upstairs. Tungsten and CFL have both been OK. I recently switched back to halogens when I got a couple of 120W ones (equivalent to 150W tungsten) and not had a problem, but I've no idea if that's because the higher wattage necessitates a thicker filament, or the lamp is a better quality brand. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
"Scion" wrote in message
... Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard: Woody wrote: It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. Actually they are famously fragile, those halogens. Because the filament is so short compared with the filament in a normal bulb, it has to be ultra-thin to get the right resistance. That's why they are so delicate. For 12V applications the filaments are really tough because they are thick. For 240V it's a different story. I've read somewhere that it's mostly subtle vibrations from the floor or ceiling that does them in, although I don't know for sure whether that is correct. I moved away from 70W halogens in my living room pendant because they would blow with someone thumping around upstairs. Tungsten and CFL have both been OK. I recently switched back to halogens when I got a couple of 120W ones (equivalent to 150W tungsten) and not had a problem, but I've no idea if that's because the higher wattage necessitates a thicker filament, or the lamp is a better quality brand. I've not found that the miniature eyeball spotlights suffer from poor life. At my old house, many of the rooms (bathrooms, hall/landing) were lit solely by 12V halogens (each with its own transformer, rather than a single larger transformer for all the lights on the same switch) and those lasted forever - I think most of them were on the original bulb after 10 years. But those are more rugged. Even at our new house, the 240V halogens in the bathroom seemed to last a long time, though being in an upstairs room, there's very little vibration of the ceiling (unless we go into the loft!). The lamps that do seem to have a very poor life are the larger spotlight bulbs used as downlighters in a kitchen - the sort that have a standard size bayonet or Edison screw and are about 5" long by 3" diameter. Those seem to have a life of only a month or so - a lot shorter than conventional bulbs of the same power and similar size (ie not miniature halogens with very short filiaments). I didn't know about the RFI problem with LED and CFL lamps. I'll see if I can find an AM radio somewhere (if I've still got a working portable one in the loft) to try it out. I should imagine that the number of people who still use AM is fairly small - not that this should be used an an excuse for allowing poor designs to generate RFI! I always feel a bit guilty about suggesting that people use Homeplug devices for getting network connections to remote parts of their house, and reserve it only for those cases where the walls are so thick that it would be absurdly expensive to have many wireless repeaters to multi-hop from the router to the part of the house where wi-fi is needed. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 03:26:40 -0600, "Steve Thackery"
wrote: I was reading an article about them in a techie mag recently (Elektor, EPE? - can't remember). The power supply circuitry is unbelievably simple: a capacitor and a full-wave rectifier, basically; little or nothing else. So, nothing to produce any RF. This is completely different from CFLs, which have a tiny SMPS inside them, so surely *they* are the ones which will produce RF. This explains why they can now make the GU10 fitting LED lamps the same physical size as the 50W filament ones, and thus suitable as direct replacements, at last. The CFL ones have been available for a while, but they have longer necks that don't suit all fittings. I recall being severely limited in my choice of ceiling lighting bar when I decided I wanted to use low power GU10 lamps, and had to settle for one with four sockets though I'd have preferred six. Maybe it's time to consider changing it. Rod. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Roderick Stewart wrote:
This explains why they can now make the GU10 fitting LED lamps the same physical size as the 50W filament ones, and thus suitable as direct replacements, at last. Yes. Apparently the biggest challenge has been managing the heat from the LEDs so they don't exceed their rated temperature. Light output per LED, efficiency and heat management are the main technical challenges, I believe. Incidentally, I'd be wary of buying LED lamps in order to save electricity. According to my research, the claimed efficiencies vary a lot, but average out very similar to CFLs. I've adopted them because I *really* appreciate their instant-on*, and their longevity is enough to be 'fit-and-forget'. *There are two things that drive me mad with fluorescents: the dinkety-dink-dink startup of traditional tubes; and the slow warm up of the CFLs. All of the fluorescent strip lights in my house are now high frequency electronic with instant start; and the CFLs are being replaced with LEDs (except that some wattages aren't available in the right type to fit my pendants, so it's a case of waiting for them to dribble out into the shops). -- SteveT |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard:
snip All of the fluorescent strip lights in my house are now high frequency electronic with instant start Do you ever have a problem with them failing to start first time? I've got 4ft and 5ft twin tube HF fluoros in my kitchen and quite often one or both of the 5ft ones don't light. When I switch it off the non-lit one will give a bright flash about a second later. Really odd. Sometimes I'll need to switch off and on six or seven times to get them both lit. As far as I can tell it's not temperature or humidity related. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Scion wrote:
Do you ever have a problem with them failing to start first time? I've got 4ft and 5ft twin tube HF fluoros in my kitchen and quite often one or both of the 5ft ones don't light. When I switch it off the non-lit one will give a bright flash about a second later. Really odd. Sometimes I'll need to switch off and on six or seven times to get them both lit. As far as I can tell it's not temperature or humidity related. Oooh, that's interesting. No, I can't say I have, although I don't think I've got any 5ft ones. A quick count shows eight tubes, 3ft and 4ft long. All bought from B&Q and so far totally reliable. -- SteveT |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Scion wrote:
Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard: snip All of the fluorescent strip lights in my house are now high frequency electronic with instant start Do you ever have a problem with them failing to start first time? I've got 4ft and 5ft twin tube HF fluoros in my kitchen and quite often one or both of the 5ft ones don't light. When I switch it off the non-lit one will give a bright flash about a second later. Really odd. Sometimes I'll need to switch off and on six or seven times to get them both lit. As far as I can tell it's not temperature or humidity related. It's the electronic ballast getting old. I had a batch of 5ft tubes I bought some years ago which have all done this. I have now replaced all of their innards and they all work fine though they're not *quite* so 'instant on' with the new electronic ballasts as they were with the old ones. -- Chris Green ยท |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard:
Scion wrote: Do you ever have a problem with them failing to start first time? I've got 4ft and 5ft twin tube HF fluoros in my kitchen and quite often one or both of the 5ft ones don't light. When I switch it off the non-lit one will give a bright flash about a second later. Really odd. Sometimes I'll need to switch off and on six or seven times to get them both lit. As far as I can tell it's not temperature or humidity related. Oooh, that's interesting. No, I can't say I have, although I don't think I've got any 5ft ones. A quick count shows eight tubes, 3ft and 4ft long. All bought from B&Q and so far totally reliable. OK thanks. My 4ft tubes have never been a problem, just the 5ft. I suspect some out-of-spec electronickery within the fitting but it's not enough of a problem to goad me into doing anything about it. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
wrote in message ... Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. GLS - ~1,000 hours Halogen - ~2,000 hours CFL - ~10,000 hours LED - ~20 - 50,000 hours Unfortunately a lot of the LED ones are let down by two things; - 1. Poor ancilliary components that fail long before the LED's 2. Poor construction of installation that results in them heating up, vastly shortneing their lives.# LED's in TV's are not normally high output so should last many years. A lot of LED sets from Richer Sounds now come with a free five year guarantee. Or have I just been unlucky? PS You can get previous Euromillions results on TVE Internacional text page 472. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
cl put finger to keyboard:
Scion wrote: Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard: snip All of the fluorescent strip lights in my house are now high frequency electronic with instant start Do you ever have a problem with them failing to start first time? I've got 4ft and 5ft twin tube HF fluoros in my kitchen and quite often one or both of the 5ft ones don't light. When I switch it off the non-lit one will give a bright flash about a second later. Really odd. Sometimes I'll need to switch off and on six or seven times to get them both lit. As far as I can tell it's not temperature or humidity related. It's the electronic ballast getting old. I had a batch of 5ft tubes I bought some years ago which have all done this. I have now replaced all of their innards and they all work fine though they're not *quite* so 'instant on' with the new electronic ballasts as they were with the old ones. It's done it from new, although of course I don't know the manufacture date of the ballast. But in this case does 'old' refer to on-time or number of switches rather than physical age? Is there one ballast for both tubes on a twin? Are they all much of a muchness, or do I need to ask for a 2011-model Yukasa brand X30 model, no not that one, the one with counterclockwise casing and trammelled inserts? |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in
message ... [snip] LED's in TV's are not normally high output so should last many years. A lot of LED sets from Richer Sounds now come with a free five year guarantee. [snip] That's only to compete with JLP who do five years free on almost all sets. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:03:18 +0000 (UTC)
Scion wrote: I moved away from 70W halogens in my living room pendant because they would blow with someone thumping around upstairs. Now that makes sense to me. Our kitchen pendant light is under a well-used room, and the new halogen lamps we have been using keep blowing far too quickly. This may be why. Thanks. -- Davey. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:18:16 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote: wrote in message ... Unfortunately a lot of the LED ones are let down by two things; - 1. Poor ancilliary components that fail long before the LED's 2. Poor construction of installation that results in them heating up, vastly shortneing their lives.# My mate recently reported than the six LEDS he fitted in his new kitched all failed within three months. They have been replaced under warranty. (Think they came from Wilkinsons). Watch this space! GrahamC --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Woody wrote:
Just hope that you have no AM listeners or radio amateurs nearby as they create horrendous RFI and are known to flicker in the presence of RF (they are diodes after all.) I put over 20 of them in the motorhome and I haven't had any interference problems. Bill |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
"Steve Thackery" wrote in message ... Woody wrote: Just hope that you have no AM listeners or radio amateurs nearby as they create horrendous RFI Evidence? Or hearsay? and are known to flicker in the presence of RF (they are diodes after all.) I was reading an article about them in a techie mag recently (Elektor, EPE? - can't remember). The power supply circuitry is unbelievably simple: a capacitor and a full-wave rectifier, basically; little or nothing else. Back in a 1970s Ferguson used a capacitor instead of a large and heat producing resistor in the heater chain of their Courier? portable TV, I think it was referred to as a 'Wattless dropper'. IIRC Rediffusion also used a similar idea of a bridge rectifier and capacitor to power an 'inverter', which was a small white box with a volume control in the middle, that fitted to the rear of a normal television, enabling it to receive their hf wired vision system, it was an idea that I thought could have been rather dangerous in the event of the mains connected capacitor going short circuit. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Graham C wrote:
My mate recently reported than the six LEDS he fitted in his new kitched all failed within three months. They have been replaced under warranty. (Think they came from Wilkinsons). Watch this space! Incidentally, I made the mistake of replacing the 12V halogen downlighter bulbs (G4) in my kitchen with LED equivalents, *without* changing or checking the 12V lighting "transformers" (in reality SMPSs). I didn't realise, but pretty well all of those lighting "transformers" have a minimum rating (in watts), as well as a maximum rating. If you go below that minimum rating it may operate out of spec: not coming on at all, flickering, or over-driving the lamps. I was dead impressed by the brightness of the new LEDs until one stopped working. I took it out and heard something tiny drop onto the kitchen worktop and disappear. A quick examination showed it had got so damn hot the bridge rectifier chip had unsoldered itself! I replaced it with four 1N4001s and all is well again. BUT: I realised I had to replace those lighting "transformers", so I fitted the "constant voltage" type. These usually have a lower power rating for the same money, but work correctly right down to zero load, and thus are perfect for the job. Since then my LEDs have all been fed with exactly the right voltage and no longer melt the solder on their PCBs! I mention this solely to warn others of making the same mistake: when changing halogen for LED, you should probably change the lighting transformers for constant-voltage types. -- SteveT |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 05:45:39 -0600, "Steve Thackery"
wrote: This explains why they can now make the GU10 fitting LED lamps the same physical size as the 50W filament ones, and thus suitable as direct replacements, at last. Yes. Apparently the biggest challenge has been managing the heat from the LEDs so they don't exceed their rated temperature. Light output per LED, efficiency and heat management are the main technical challenges, I believe. The rated temperature for LEDs must be quite low then. I'm pleased that a 5W LED replacement for a 50W quartz halogen bulb is at least within the rated temperature for my fingers. Incidentally, I'd be wary of buying LED lamps in order to save electricity. According to my research, the claimed efficiencies vary a lot, but average out very similar to CFLs. LED versus CFL might be a doubtful economy, but LED versus any filament lamp is no contest. Even so, it would be expensive to replace every bulb in the house all at once. So far, I've just replaced filament with CFL one by one as they blow, but now that a decent choice of LED is available I'll probably use those instead. I've adopted them because I *really* appreciate their instant-on*, and their longevity is enough to be 'fit-and-forget'. I'm surprised nobody has thought of marketing "soft start" as a feature and charging extra for it, as in some instances it might be preferable. For example, switching on my ageing CFL landing light in the middle of the night, I'm rather glad that it doesn't switch to full dazzle immediately. Rod. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
... I've adopted them because I *really* appreciate their instant-on*, and their longevity is enough to be 'fit-and-forget'. I'm surprised nobody has thought of marketing "soft start" as a feature and charging extra for it, as in some instances it might be preferable. For example, switching on my ageing CFL landing light in the middle of the night, I'm rather glad that it doesn't switch to full dazzle immediately. In our bathroom we've got three LED replacements for the 240V miniature eyeball downlighters. Normally they do come on immediately - and as you say, it's a bit sudden when your eyes are turned up to maximum gain in the middle of the night! However occasionally one of them (and I don't know which one it is) stutters slightly, coming on immediately like the others but then going out for a fraction of a second and then coming on again. It seems to happen if the lights have been off for a few hours. I even tried pointing my digital camera at the lights and running it in 120 fps movie mode (*) but when I eventually managed to reproduce the flicker I discovered that it was too short to be captured on the video which suggests I have very high-speed eyes! (*) A nice feature I didn't know about till long after I bought it and a great toy for examining water splashing or cars driving through puddles in slow motion ;-) |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 10:46:29 -0000, "NY" wrote:
"Scion" wrote in message ... Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard: Woody wrote: It is unlikely you have been unlucky assuming you are buying a decent brand, so there are two options: either you have very spikey mains, or you have poor quality light switches. Actually they are famously fragile, those halogens. Because the filament is so short compared with the filament in a normal bulb, it has to be ultra-thin to get the right resistance. That's why they are so delicate. For 12V applications the filaments are really tough because they are thick. For 240V it's a different story. I've read somewhere that it's mostly subtle vibrations from the floor or ceiling that does them in, although I don't know for sure whether that is correct. I moved away from 70W halogens in my living room pendant because they would blow with someone thumping around upstairs. Tungsten and CFL have both been OK. I recently switched back to halogens when I got a couple of 120W ones (equivalent to 150W tungsten) and not had a problem, but I've no idea if that's because the higher wattage necessitates a thicker filament, or the lamp is a better quality brand. I've not found that the miniature eyeball spotlights suffer from poor life. At my old house, many of the rooms (bathrooms, hall/landing) were lit solely by 12V halogens (each with its own transformer, rather than a single larger transformer for all the lights on the same switch) and those lasted forever - I think most of them were on the original bulb after 10 years. But those are more rugged. Even at our new house, the 240V halogens in the bathroom seemed to last a long time, though being in an upstairs room, there's very little vibration of the ceiling (unless we go into the loft!). Aha! More anecdotal evidence of the longevity of 12v halogen lamps. It's not just me then. The original 35w 12v halogens, all 4 of them, that were fitted into the shower room when it was refurbished several years ago are still going strong. It's not hard to see why this would be so when you carefully observe the distinct quarter of a second or so ramp up to full brightness at switch on (they're each fed with their own electronic transformer (max ouptut 60 watt) which limits the inrush current to just over twice the running current (just over a fifth of what it would be in the case of 240v lamps)). In this case you have several factors at play which facilitates a long and healthy lamp life - thicker, less fragile filaments and effective switch on inrush current limiting provided by the mandatory 12v ballasts. The extra capital costs of the installation would appear to have more than paid for itself in reduced lamp replacement costs and the time and bother involved in the frequent lamp replacement schedule associated with 240v lamps. The lamps that do seem to have a very poor life are the larger spotlight bulbs used as downlighters in a kitchen - the sort that have a standard size bayonet or Edison screw and are about 5" long by 3" diameter. Those seem to have a life of only a month or so - a lot shorter than conventional bulbs of the same power and similar size (ie not miniature halogens with very short filiaments). You didn't mention it but I'd guess you're talking about 240v filament lamps. I didn't know about the RFI problem with LED and CFL lamps. I'll see if I can find an AM radio somewhere (if I've still got a working portable one in the loft) to try it out. I should imagine that the number of people who still use AM is fairly small - not that this should be used an an excuse for allowing poor designs to generate RFI! I always feel a bit guilty about suggesting that people use Homeplug devices for getting network connections to remote parts of their house, and reserve it only for those cases where the walls are so thick that it would be absurdly expensive to have many wireless repeaters to multi-hop from the router to the part of the house where wi-fi is needed. This might come as a surprise but even conventional fluorescent tube fittings should have a 100nF capacitor across the tube itself in order to supress unwanted RF 'hash'. Even the crudely ballasted LED lamps should likewise have an RF supression capacitor across the LED for the same reason. Basically, anything that has a narrow conduction angle on ac supplies will need some sort of RFI suppression filtering of some sort or another if you wish not to needlessly contribute any more RFI to your local environment. -- Regards, J B Good |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 05:45:39 -0600, "Steve Thackery"
wrote: Roderick Stewart wrote: This explains why they can now make the GU10 fitting LED lamps the same physical size as the 50W filament ones, and thus suitable as direct replacements, at last. Yes. Apparently the biggest challenge has been managing the heat from the LEDs so they don't exceed their rated temperature. Light output per LED, efficiency and heat management are the main technical challenges, I believe. Incidentally, I'd be wary of buying LED lamps in order to save electricity. According to my research, the claimed efficiencies vary a lot, but average out very similar to CFLs. That's a point that seems to escape the attention of a lot of purchasers who seem to overlook the fact that their efficiency compared to a standard tungsten filament lamp is only on a par with CFLs. I've adopted them because I *really* appreciate their instant-on*, and their longevity is enough to be 'fit-and-forget'. That's really the only reason to opt for a LED lamp over a CFL alternative other than for size considerations where a LED version might be sufficiently small enough to replace a conventional lamp without looking as out of place as a 'small' CFL. *There are two things that drive me mad with fluorescents: the dinkety-dink-dink startup of traditional tubes; and the slow warm up of the CFLs. All of the fluorescent strip lights in my house are now high frequency electronic with instant start; and the CFLs are being replaced with LEDs (except that some wattages aren't available in the right type to fit my pendants, so it's a case of waiting for them to dribble out into the shops). I installed an instant start linear fluorescent fitting in the kitchen extension ever since it was built onto the house about 25 years or so back. None of your fancy electronics though, just a good old fashioned choke ballast with "Quickstart"(tm) transformer, a technology harking back to the late forties. I do enjoy the instant switch on feature (lights up to full brightness in less than 250ms). I also have a quickstart fitting in the basement which does likewise. The only problem being that they are susceptible to the effects of prolonged high humidity which can interfere with the start up process. Cold doesn't seem to be an issue as I discovered when leaving the basement window wide open to improve the ventillation to reduce the humidity levels just before the winter which made the basement even colder than normal (about 8 to 10 deg C minimum). I converted the 5 foot "80W" fitting in my office from switch start to quickstart and it was fine with the standard 'fat' tubes until I could no longer obtain quickstart compatable replacement tubes so I had to convert the fitting back to switch start. Not a problem since once the lamp is switched on, it doesn't get switched off until I head for bed. However, the swich starters have a habit of failing after some years of service and the replacements I purchased locally, started to perform as "switch off then on" devices within just a month or two. When I contacted a local company to enquire about one of the modern electronic ballasts it turned out they'd lied to me over the phone when I actually paid them a visit so I landed up buying another pair of starters off them so I'd at least have something to show for my time and fuel costs. These, at least, seem to function properly although, on rare occasions they'll take to switching the tube off usually after several hors run time late at night which is when my 5 quid 5 watt LED lamped desklamp comes into play. leaving the fluorescent fitting turned off for 5 or 10 minutes seems to fix the problem on those rare occasions when it doesn't fix itself. I've contemplated the alternative electronic starter switches which generate 4Kv HF pulses to start _any_ type of tube from 4 watt upwards in any standard choke ballasted fitting but I haven't been able to find anyone locally who keeps them in stock. They're only available 'mail order' (i.e. from specialist suppliers trading over the internet). They're not expensive, in fact many places will sell you a pair of them for less than what Tescos et al charge for the cheap and nasty conventional switch starters. Usually, the P&P is the biggest cost of an on line order unless you're buying half a dozen or more. I'm not too bothered about replacing the current starters just to get instant start since I hope to eventually buy, or acquire, an electronic ballast which will not only give me instant start but also better tube efficiency. A 40 watt tube in an electronically ballasted fitting will outshine a 3 x 20 watt CFL lamp fitting any day of the week. For anyone who can appreciate the aesthetics of 'function decides form', a linear tubed fluorescent fitting wins the day every time. CFLs and LED lamps simply can't compete on luminous output and electrical efficiency. That's quite impressive for a lamp technology that was first commercialised way back in the mid thirties! -- Regards, J B Good |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:45:39 UTC, "Steve Thackery"
wrote: Roderick Stewart wrote: This explains why they can now make the GU10 fitting LED lamps the same physical size as the 50W filament ones, and thus suitable as direct replacements, at last. Yes. Apparently the biggest challenge has been managing the heat from the LEDs so they don't exceed their rated temperature. Light output per LED, efficiency and heat management are the main technical challenges, I believe. Does this mean it's a problem putting them in enclosed fittings? We have several ceiling lights that are totally enclosed with 40W tungsten in them. I seem to remember seeing a "Don't use in enclosed" on some low energy buld but there does not seem to be anything on the boxes of "40W" LEDs. -- Regards Dave Saville |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
"Johny B Good" wrote in message
... The lamps that do seem to have a very poor life are the larger spotlight bulbs used as downlighters in a kitchen - the sort that have a standard size bayonet or Edison screw and are about 5" long by 3" diameter. Those seem to have a life of only a month or so - a lot shorter than conventional bulbs of the same power and similar size (ie not miniature halogens with very short filiaments). You didn't mention it but I'd guess you're talking about 240v filament lamps. Sorry, yes: the 240V 60W filament spotlights. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 18:11:17 +0000 (UTC), "Dave Saville"
wrote: Roderick Stewart wrote: This explains why they can now make the GU10 fitting LED lamps the same physical size as the 50W filament ones, and thus suitable as direct replacements, at last. Yes. Apparently the biggest challenge has been managing the heat from the LEDs so they don't exceed their rated temperature. Light output per LED, efficiency and heat management are the main technical challenges, I believe. Does this mean it's a problem putting them in enclosed fittings? We have several ceiling lights that are totally enclosed with 40W tungsten in them. I seem to remember seeing a "Don't use in enclosed" on some low energy buld but there does not seem to be anything on the boxes of "40W" LEDs. I would guess that if an LED bulb is marked as "40W", what it really means is "equivalent light output to a conventional 40W bulb", and the bulb actually consumes not much more than a tenth of that. Therefore it won't get anywhere near as hot. This, and the fact that these bulbs are made in the same physical shapes and sizes as conventional filament bulbs, and with the same electrical connections, suggests they are intended to be used as direct replacements. I've recently replaced ten 50W GU10 quartz halogens set into a kitchen ceiling with LED equivalents, with no other modifications, so in about five years time I'll be able to tell you if I'm right. Rod. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Johny B Good wrote:
For anyone who can appreciate the aesthetics of 'function decides form', a linear tubed fluorescent fitting wins the day every time. CFLs and LED lamps simply can't compete on luminous output and electrical efficiency. And, just as importantly, they don't cast shadows. Thus they are perfect for kitchens and workrooms. -- SteveT |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
Roderick Stewart wrote:
I would guess that if an LED bulb is marked as "40W", what it really means is "equivalent light output to a conventional 40W bulb", and the bulb actually consumes not much more than a tenth of that. Exactly. You can't buy 40 "real" watts LED lamps - not for domestic use, I mean. -- SteveT |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
"Scion" wrote in message
... Steve Thackery put finger to keyboard: snip All of the fluorescent strip lights in my house are now high frequency electronic with instant start Do you ever have a problem with them failing to start first time? I've got 4ft and 5ft twin tube HF fluoros in my kitchen and quite often one or both of the 5ft ones don't light. When I switch it off the non-lit one will give a bright flash about a second later. Really odd. Sometimes I'll need to switch off and on six or seven times to get them both lit. As far as I can tell it's not temperature or humidity related. The CFL in my bathroom sometimes flashes when the fan switches off after five minutes which is odd. I suppose it's due to some kind of inductive surge. And my bedroom has some kind of weird switch with a dial under a cover - I think it may be an anti-burglary device - which doesn't like CFLs at all. Most just flicker continuously when they're turned off. -- Max Demian |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:24:52 -0600, Steve Thackery wrote:
Johny B Good wrote: For anyone who can appreciate the aesthetics of 'function decides form', a linear tubed fluorescent fitting wins the day every time. CFLs and LED lamps simply can't compete on luminous output and electrical efficiency. And, just as importantly, they don't cast shadows. Thus they are perfect for kitchens and workrooms. Indeed. A couple of years ago I replaced a single 20W CFL in the middle of a small kitchen with 2 14W HF T5 tubes with diffusers (controllers, in the lingo), switched independently and carefully sited to be of most use. They come on instantly at full brightness and give a well-dispersed light of about 2600 lumens. At the far end of the kitchen there's a 3W, 250 lu LED golfball in a batten-holder that is very good for some cupboards, the 'pantry' and the back door. It stays on for about 7h per evening atm and is just luke warm. It's enough for walking through, setting the microwave, filling the kettle etc. and seems better than the 60W GLS (about 800+ lu) that was in there before. -- Peter. The gods will stay away whilst religions hold sway |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 09:35:12 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham
wrote: I've recently replaced ten 50W GU10 quartz halogens set into a kitchen ceiling with LED equivalents, with no other modifications, so in about five years time I'll be able to tell you if I'm right. I have a '4 spotlights on a bar' type thing in my kitchen. Each light is a GU10 50watt. I assume you found the replacement LEDS acceptable in brightness, colour and beam angle. May I ask what they are and where from? The lamps in the "4 spotlights on a bar" thing in my living room are still the CFL type, because I managed to find a bar with adjustable fittings that could take them, despite the fact that they're longer than the quartz halogen type. (At the time I couldn't find a suitable bar with 6 fittings). The kitchen has ten GU10 lamps in flush fittings set into the ceiling. CFL ones might have fitted the sockets but would have stuck out and looked stupid. This is what I ended up buying, but there are lots of others to choose from- http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'd suggest you make sure to get the ones described as "warm white", or with a colour temperature around 3000K, because if not so described they're likely to be the daylight ones around 6000K, which will look very cold compared with traditional interior lighting. Rod. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Tue, 21 Jan 2014 06:02:46 -0800 (PST),
wrote: Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. Or have I just been unlucky? This has got to be the last word on faulty lighting- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...g-message.html Rod. |
TOT Those new light bulbs.
On Tuesday, 21 January 2014 14:05:50 UTC, James Harris wrote:
semiretired wrote Apologies for raising this here, but I don't know another forum where the topic might get taken seriously. These new light bulbs - the ones with the little bulb inside an old style casing - seem to blow very quickly. They don't seem to last anything like the promised coulple of years. You could try uk.d-i-y. James Thanks to you and to all posters on this thread. |
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