Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the various
connections on the backs, I wondered why none of the sets seemed to have
external speaker connections available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse. Yet the only way
to get decent sound seems to be through complicated connections to
external amps, soundbars, and the like. The audio outputs from TVs can
easily supply tens of watts to speakers, so why not have a simple
speaker output to a couple of stereo speakers?

Or is it that rather than do that, the manufacturers want us to spend a
fortune on 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound equipment, rather than a couple of
speakers which we probably already have available?

--

Jeff

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the
various connections on the backs, I wondered why none of
the sets seemed to have external speaker connections
available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse.
Yet the only way to get decent sound seems to be through
complicated connections to external amps, soundbars, and
the like. The audio outputs from TVs can easily supply
tens of watts to speakers, so why not have a simple
speaker output to a couple of stereo speakers?

Or is it that rather than do that, the manufacturers want
us to spend a fortune on 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound
equipment, rather than a couple of speakers which we
probably already have available?


Two solutions:
Get a half decent pair of computer speakers and plug into
the headphone socket;
If you have a spare pair of proper speakers find yourself a
small cheap secondhand hi-fi amp and use that to drive them,
again using the headphone output.

I have faced a similar problem in our caravan as my wife has
a hearing deficiency. I built a small line amp (from a
Maplin kit) which feeds into the (fitted) car radio and
source it from the TV headphone socket. It not only works
well but the audio quality is significantly better without
the need for the volume levels.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article , Jeff Layman
wrote:

The audio outputs from TVs can easily supply tens of watts to speakers,
so why not have a simple speaker output to a couple of stereo speakers?

I wonder if this is true for modern run-of-the-mill TVs. Maybe they are
more like portable radios these days and can just supply a few watts peak
at high levels of distortion? Be interested in anyone who can give measured
figures.

Or is it that rather than do that, the manufacturers want us to spend a
fortune on 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound equipment, rather than a couple of
speakers which we probably already have available?

If you already have good speakers, you probably also have a decent amp to
drive them. And if you already use them in the same room for audio, why not
also for the TV?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:54:14 -0000, Woody wrote:

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the
various connections on the backs, I wondered why none of
the sets seemed to have external speaker connections
available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse.
Yet the only way to get decent sound seems to be through
complicated connections to external amps, soundbars, and
the like. The audio outputs from TVs can easily supply
tens of watts to speakers, so why not have a simple
speaker output to a couple of stereo speakers?

Or is it that rather than do that, the manufacturers want
us to spend a fortune on 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound
equipment, rather than a couple of speakers which we
probably already have available?

My Panny has no audio output other than SPDIF and HDMI (one socket has AVR).

Two solutions:
Get a half decent pair of computer speakers and plug into
the headphone socket;
If you have a spare pair of proper speakers find yourself a
small cheap secondhand hi-fi amp and use that to drive them,
again using the headphone output.

This worked well on the Samsung but not on the Panny. The socket on the
Panny doesn't cut the speakers and the volume control has no effect, so I
use it on Freesat only. If I go to Freeview the sound blasts out.

I have faced a similar problem in our caravan as my wife has
a hearing deficiency. I built a small line amp (from a
Maplin kit) which feeds into the (fitted) car radio and
source it from the TV headphone socket. It not only works
well but the audio quality is significantly better without
the need for the volume levels.


--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

I suspect its the way to sell other kit. i bet most of the manufacturers
have their own branded sound systems.
it has always been that way. Not too many tvs have speaker sockets. Also
many tvs have fixed tweaks in their amps to ofset thetinny speak problem to
some extent, so to give you sockets, they would have to disable that
somehow. add to this that they consider most people incapable of not
shorting out the speakers and blowing the set up.
What socket do they fit? Where is the standard for this?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the various
connections on the backs, I wondered why none of the sets seemed to have
external speaker connections available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse. Yet the only way
to get decent sound seems to be through complicated connections to
external amps, soundbars, and the like. The audio outputs from TVs can
easily supply tens of watts to speakers, so why not have a simple speaker
output to a couple of stereo speakers?

Or is it that rather than do that, the manufacturers want us to spend a
fortune on 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound equipment, rather than a couple of
speakers which we probably already have available?

--

Jeff

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the various
connections on the backs, I wondered why none of the sets seemed to have
external speaker connections available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse. Yet the only way
to get decent sound seems to be through complicated connections to
external amps, soundbars, and the like. The audio outputs from TVs can
easily supply tens of watts to speakers, so why not have a simple
speaker output to a couple of stereo speakers?

Or is it that rather than do that, the manufacturers want us to spend a
fortune on 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound equipment, rather than a couple of
speakers which we probably already have available?

Apart from cost, I'd say it's because the internal amp is 'fiddled' to
cope with the small rear facing speakers.

It more annoys me that they don't provide an analogue line output. How
many Hi-Fi amps have an optical input? And is a long optical cable (and
wall plates) to reach a distant amp even possible?

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
Woody wrote:
Two solutions:
Get a half decent pair of computer speakers and plug into
the headphone socket;
If you have a spare pair of proper speakers find yourself a
small cheap secondhand hi-fi amp and use that to drive them,
again using the headphone output.

The headphone output on my Samsung is not of the highest quality. It has
what sounds like old fashioned frame buzz on it which changes with picture
content. I've not yet rigged up the optical output to my Hi-Fi. I'm hoping
that at least will be 'clean'.

--
*I'm pretty sure that sex is better than logic, but I can't prove it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Jeff Layman
wrote:
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the various
connections on the backs, I wondered why none of the sets seemed to
have external speaker connections available.


It more annoys me that they don't provide an analogue line output. How
many Hi-Fi amps have an optical input? And is a long optical cable (and
wall plates) to reach a distant amp even possible?

The longest 'optical' digital lead I have is 5 metres. This works OK. But
at such lengths for the 'plastic rope' leads, success will depend on the
details of the transmitter and receiver as well as the quality of the lead.
Found other other leads half that length that don't work.

FWIW Use this with a cheap DAC from CPC as part of one of my DIY
'headDACs' and it seems fine. Works at 96k as well.

For longer leads I'd probably use an optical-coax convertor and a long run
of coax for the spdif.

On 02 Jan in uk.tech.digital-tv, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
I've not yet rigged up the optical output to my Hi-Fi. I'm hoping
that at least will be 'clean'.

Optical should at least avoid ground or rf loops. After that, it'll depend
on the source, etc.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
It more annoys me that they don't provide an analogue line output. How
many Hi-Fi amps have an optical input? And is a long optical cable (and
wall plates) to reach a distant amp even possible?

The longest 'optical' digital lead I have is 5 metres. This works OK.
But at such lengths for the 'plastic rope' leads, success will depend on
the details of the transmitter and receiver as well as the quality of
the lead. Found other other leads half that length that don't work.

All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp again in
optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter at the Hi-Fi -
but not at the TV.

--
*I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

On 02/01/2014 08:38, Jeff Layman wrote:
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the various
connections on the backs, I wondered why none of the sets seemed to have
external speaker connections available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse. Yet the only way
to get decent sound seems to be through complicated connections to
external amps, soundbars, and the like.



complicated how?
a hdmi cable will do it with the right bar/amplifier - no complication
at all.


--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
It more annoys me that they don't provide an analogue line output. How
many Hi-Fi amps have an optical input? And is a long optical cable (and
wall plates) to reach a distant amp even possible?

The longest 'optical' digital lead I have is 5 metres. This works OK.
But at such lengths for the 'plastic rope' leads, success will depend on
the details of the transmitter and receiver as well as the quality of
the lead. Found other other leads half that length that don't work.

All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp again in
optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter at the Hi-Fi -
but not at the TV.

You can certainly buy low-cost optical-coax and coax-optical spdif
convertors from CPC, etc. The ones I've used work fine. Not looked for
wallplate versions, but I guess something could be built DIY if you need
it.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

On 02/01/2014 17:30, the dog from that film you saw wrote:
On 02/01/2014 08:38, Jeff Layman wrote:
Drifting round John Lewis the other day and peering at the various
connections on the backs, I wondered why none of the sets seemed to have
external speaker connections available.

As the sets get thinner, the sound quality gets worse. Yet the only way
to get decent sound seems to be through complicated connections to
external amps, soundbars, and the like.

complicated how?
a hdmi cable will do it with the right bar/amplifier - no complication
at all.

Probably the wrong word. I should have said "unnecessary" rather than
complicated.

--

Jeff

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
It more annoys me that they don't provide an analogue line output. How
many Hi-Fi amps have an optical input?

Loads mate, even the el cheapo Sony STRDH 540 has two (£130 from Richer,
althouhg its predecessors were cheaper)

And is a long optical cable (and
wall plates) to reach a distant amp even possible?

The longest 'optical' digital lead I have is 5 metres. This works OK.
But at such lengths for the 'plastic rope' leads, success will depend on
the details of the transmitter and receiver as well as the quality of
the lead.

Should be able to go very many metres on these. CPC do them up to 20m or
you can do your own (tricky).

Found other other leads half that length that don't work.

There is loads of slack in the spec'. I could hold the end of the cable
2-3cm from the socket and the amp would still see it without errors. Did
you get the cables from the pound shop? (PS I have and they work fine)


All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp again in
optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter at the Hi-Fi -
but not at the TV.

Should be, but you will have to splice the socket side AFAICT.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp again
in optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter at the
Hi-Fi - but not at the TV.

Should be, but you will have to splice the socket side AFAICT.

Seems stupid when SPDIF uses conventional connectors and cable.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:


The longest 'optical' digital lead I have is 5 metres. This works OK.
But at such lengths for the 'plastic rope' leads, success will depend
on the details of the transmitter and receiver as well as the quality
of the lead.

Should be able to go very many metres on these. CPC do them up to 20m
or you can do your own (tricky).

Yes. Alas "does" may not always follow in practice from "should" in theory.

The problem is that what tends to be sold for home use as 'optical' digital
leads may sometimes be little more than a plastic pipe that is bendy. So in
my experience the performance varies a lot from one example to another.

Found other other leads half that length that don't work.

There is loads of slack in the spec'. I could hold the end of the cable
2-3cm from the socket and the amp would still see it without errors.

Yes, I've also found that for some examples. However the problem doesn't
seem to be mode coupling (indeed they seem to be light buckets rather than
fibres with a few modes). It seems to be loss along the way for some
examples. Even when straight and connected the transmission loss is
noticable for some examples.

Did you get the cables from the pound shop? (PS I have and they work
fine)

Bought different types and lengths from CPC (and Maplin in the past IIRC).

From the catalogue you get no real indication of which makes/brands will be
better or worse, despite fancy names for some. Doesn't seem to correlate
much with price or branding.

Chances are, ones just a meter or so long will be OK. But longer ones can
become more of a lottery. However as I said, the max I've needed is 5m,
which is fine.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , R. Mark Clayton
wrote:
All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp
again in optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter
at the Hi-Fi - but not at the TV.

Should be, but you will have to splice the socket side AFAICT.

Seems stupid when SPDIF uses conventional connectors and cable.

You can buy small blocks that have back-to-back optical females to allow
one lead to link to another. However as with the leads I've found that some
work well whilst others lose a fair bit of the light.

It is perhaps unfortunate that the term 'optical fibre' is applied to such
home plastic 'light hose' leads *and* pro single-fibre low-loss wideband
glass data fibres. Chalk and cheese. Makes it easier for some makers to
sell poor examples.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp again
in optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter at the
Hi-Fi - but not at the TV.

You can certainly buy low-cost optical-coax and coax-optical spdif
convertors from CPC, etc. The ones I've used work fine. Not looked for
wallplate versions, but I guess something could be built DIY if you need
it.

Since the output on the TV is optical and there's no room for extra boxes
there, I'd like it to go to the Hi-Fi in optical, and be converted there.
And to make a neat job would require optical wall plates at either end -
and the ability to make optical 'cables' of the correct length. In exactly
the same way as I'd do with analogue.

Optical outputs may be ideal for feeding a soundbar situated below the TV,
but leave a lot to be desired for feeding a conventional Hi-Fi. Just how
much extra would it cost to include an analogue output?

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:
All the wiring twixt TV and Hi-Fi goes under the floor here. Is it
possible to go TV to wallplate in optical, then wallplate to amp
again in optical? I have room for an optical to analogue converter
at the Hi-Fi - but not at the TV.

You can certainly buy low-cost optical-coax and coax-optical spdif
convertors from CPC, etc. The ones I've used work fine. Not looked for
wallplate versions, but I guess something could be built DIY if you
need it.

Since the output on the TV is optical and there's no room for extra
boxes there, I'd like it to go to the Hi-Fi in optical, and be converted
there. And to make a neat job would require optical wall plates at
either end - and the ability to make optical 'cables' of the correct
length. In exactly the same way as I'd do with analogue.

Understood. Alas I can't help as I've never tried making domestic 'optical'
connections. Only fibres for labwork where you need some dedicated splicing
gear. Not the same kettle of fish. Hopefully someone else can advise.

That said, in my case I'd not expect to have the display more than a few
metres from the audio equipment, and would use a connector of the relevant
length. No wallplates, etc. Albeit having fitted some duct around the
skirting board if essential.

Optical outputs may be ideal for feeding a soundbar situated below the
TV, but leave a lot to be desired for feeding a conventional Hi-Fi. Just
how much extra would it cost to include an analogue output?

Probably not much. But I guess they feel it isn't what most will want given
HDMI and an optical/coax output. Certainly I'd prefer optical to avoid any
ground loops, etc.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Do any modern TVs have external speaker sockets?
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Since the output on the TV is optical and there's no room for extra
boxes there, I'd like it to go to the Hi-Fi in optical, and be
converted there. And to make a neat job would require optical wall
plates at either end - and the ability to make optical 'cables' of the
correct length. In exactly the same way as I'd do with analogue.

Understood. Alas I can't help as I've never tried making domestic
'optical' connections. Only fibres for labwork where you need some
dedicated splicing gear. Not the same kettle of fish. Hopefully someone
else can advise.

That said, in my case I'd not expect to have the display more than a few
metres from the audio equipment, and would use a connector of the
relevant length. No wallplates, etc. Albeit having fitted some duct
around the skirting board if essential.

In my case the TV and speakers are some 20 ft from the amp and other sound
equipment. I already have a PVR, DVD and satellite receiver at the TV end
so no room for anything else. Even the VCR - which occasionally gets used
is relegated to the 'Hi-Fi' area.

Optical outputs may be ideal for feeding a soundbar situated below the
TV, but leave a lot to be desired for feeding a conventional Hi-Fi.
Just how much extra would it cost to include an analogue output?

Probably not much. But I guess they feel it isn't what most will want
given HDMI and an optical/coax output. Certainly I'd prefer optical to
avoid any ground loops, etc.

I've had TV sound feeding through an external sound system since the late
'60s and never had a problem with ground loops.

--
*Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.