BBC4 HD
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:

The OP said that he couldn't get EM as Whitwell Hill is in the way. That
suggests that he lives either on the SW side of Malton or even out of
Malton towards Whitwell. That land is somewhat elevated so I would have
thought there was a good possibility of something from Crosspool.

Not a prayer.

I live about a mile on the Malton side of Whitwell. Back in the days of
analogue, when it was possible to detect weak signals (DTTV devices reject a
weak transmitter in favour of a strong one) I could detect a very weak
signal from Emley Moor from our house, and a few people have aerials
pointing in that direction to get Yorkshire rather than Tyne Tees news, but
no other transmitter is discernable. Apart from Bilsdale and EM, Wolfbane
only mentions Oliver's Mount (Scarborough) and Belmont. I think the Wolds
obstruct any signal from the south such as Crosspool.

BBC4 HD
 

In article , Martin
scribeth thus
On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:30:10 +0000, tony sayer wrote:


Is it possible that there is some confusion here between the
radiated power for the new local TV franchise and for COM7?

Per the comment about aerial banding, I'm not quite sure what is
happening. At SC local TV is in-band at 51, but Com7 and Com 8
are both out of band in the 30's. At EM local TV will be on 56
which is out of band one way and, like SC, com7 and com8 will be
in the 30's.

Another interesting one, Bilsdale, suggests that them that knows
best haven't thought it through properly. Middlesbrugh and York
are both getting local TV and both will be broadcast on
directional aerials ('petals' as they call them) from Bilsdale.
The problem is that most viewers in York watch Yorkshire from
Emley and not Tyne Tees from Bilsdale, which means that if they
want to watch local TV they will have to erect a new additional
aerial. Oh yes, I think NOT.

However York used to have local analogue TV which was radiated
from aerials on top of a water tower on the SW edge of the city
area at Askam Bryan (for those looking, in the NW corner of the
A64/A1237 junction) and on one of the few points of raised land
in the Vale of York. Those aerials are not only still there, but
for most viewers in York they would be within the beamwidth of a
yagi pointed at Emley. You couldn't make it up could you?



Seems to me the whole things a big joke and will never make any money.

Even if it did stand a chance its now years too late..

Too much viewing competition..

Grimsby is the first to have the new fangle local TV. The station is helped by
an injection of £25million from the BBC.

Pity the poor licence payers;(..
--
Tony Sayer

BBC4 HD
 

In article , Bob Latham [email protected]
of-spam.invalid scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:

Do you mean the term "ERP" and what it means Bob?...

I suppose so. I understand the basic definition of it but it is always a
term I'm uneasy with but that's just my problem.

Bob.


Its the actual or Effective Radiated Power..

Quite simple .. well sort of.

Lets take a 1 kW output transmitter and that may well have a filter on
the output with lets say 1 dB loss. now it needs to run up the mast on a
feeder cable and these can vary due to frequency and length and type of
construction.It will also have a loss because of the connectors to join
it together but lets include them in the overall loss of the feeder.

Lets say our cable overall has 2.8 dB loss.

Now our aerial can have either unity gain thats no gain at all (lets not
bother with Isotropic radiator's lets just keep it simpler and refer to
a simple half wave dipole!)

Now the aerial might be more than the one element or set of elements
stacked but lets say its 12.3 dB overall gain.

Now the overall loss in dB's is the above added (gains) and subtracted
(loss) together which is;

So the aerial is 12.3 gain less 2.8 and 1 dB loss therefore overall
it's a 8.5 dB gain system.


So the nominal TX output has added aerial gain so the effective radiated
power is 7.079 round that to 7 kW therefore the ERP is 7 kW in this
instance.

In practice some aerial restrictions may be imposed and sometimes the
mast and where the aerial is on the structure may mean that whilst the
max ERP is 7 kW in one direction it might be somewhat less in others.

That .. is the gist of it!...


--
Tony Sayer

BBC4 HD
 

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:01:49 +0000, brightside S9
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:06:46 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:32:58 -0000, "David" wrote:

Just been prompted to do an "add new channels" on Winter Hill
Freeview, and found "This is BBC4 HD" on 106, starting soon. So we
might get to see some of Borgen in HD, and next year's Proms should
look good.

Rod.


******

That seems a bit strange as on Freesat 106 is BBC3.
(BBC4 is 107).


It is about time the broadcaster got their heads together and got some sense
into the numbering systems.

Yes, it would have been slightly more logical if BBC3 had been 107 and
BBC4 had been 109, as this would have kept the pattern of just adding
100 to the SD channel numbers.

Just noticed that Al Jazeera is getting HD on Freeview too, on 108.


Much to my surprise a scan today at time of this post finds BBC 4 HD
on 106, BBC News HD on 107 and Al Jazera HD on 108, Cbeebies on 74.

I say to my surprise because my aerial is a group C/D and is out of
band for CH31 and CH37 from Winter Hill. Al Jazeera News HD is a fine
picture on COM 7, CH31, no pixellation. Yet!

As CH31 is received OK then I will assumne that reception for C37
will be OK as well. Finding a display of signal strength and quality
on a Samsung "2013 Smart TV" is beyond me!

Black Hill / Blackhill is on channel 32 which is out of band for my
Group B aerial. The signal strength is lower than existing HD but
quality reported as very high. Can I assume that because DVB-T2 is a
newer system a lower signal strength is acceptable?

BBC4 HD
 

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:01:49 +0000, brightside S9
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 21:06:46 +0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:32:58 -0000, "David"
wrote:

Just been prompted to do an "add new channels" on Winter Hill
Freeview, and found "This is BBC4 HD" on 106, starting soon.
So we
might get to see some of Borgen in HD, and next year's Proms
should
look good.

Rod.


******

That seems a bit strange as on Freesat 106 is BBC3.
(BBC4 is 107).


It is about time the broadcaster got their heads together and
got some sense
into the numbering systems.

Yes, it would have been slightly more logical if BBC3 had been
107 and
BBC4 had been 109, as this would have kept the pattern of just
adding
100 to the SD channel numbers.

Just noticed that Al Jazeera is getting HD on Freeview too, on
108.


Much to my surprise a scan today at time of this post finds
BBC 4 HD
on 106, BBC News HD on 107 and Al Jazera HD on 108, Cbeebies on
74.

I say to my surprise because my aerial is a group C/D and is
out of
band for CH31 and CH37 from Winter Hill. Al Jazeera News HD is
a fine
picture on COM 7, CH31, no pixellation. Yet!

As CH31 is received OK then I will assumne that reception for
C37
will be OK as well. Finding a display of signal strength and
quality
on a Samsung "2013 Smart TV" is beyond me!

Black Hill / Blackhill is on channel 32 which is out of band
for my
Group B aerial. The signal strength is lower than existing HD
but
quality reported as very high. Can I assume that because
DVB-T2 is a
newer system a lower signal strength is acceptable?



DTV needs signal quality, strength is not so important. If it
works leave it alone.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

BBC4 HD
 

Woody wrote:

DTV needs signal quality, strength is not so important. If it
works leave it alone.

The biggest determinant of signal quality at the receiver input is
carrier to noise ratio, so the strength of the carrier (the signal) is a
very important factor. Signal strength is not important, as long as
there's enough. When there isn't enough it is crucial. It's like money
really. When you've got enough it isn't important. When you don't have
enough it's very important. Or sex...

Bill

BBC4 HD
 

On 01/12/2013 22:28, Scott wrote:

Black Hill / Blackhill is on channel 32 which is out of band for my
Group B aerial. The signal strength is lower than existing HD but
quality reported as very high. Can I assume that because DVB-T2 is a
newer system a lower signal strength is acceptable?

The ERPs for nearly all of the Mux 7 transmitters are higher than
originally specified, Black Hill (according to the Digital UK postcode
checker) is running at a gnat's hair below 40kW, so only 4dB lower than
the main six muxes that are 100kW.



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

BBC4 HD
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Woody wrote:

DTV needs signal quality, strength is not so important. If it
works leave it alone.

The biggest determinant of signal quality at the receiver input
is carrier to noise ratio, so the strength of the carrier (the
signal) is a very important factor. Signal strength is not
important, as long as there's enough. When there isn't enough
it is crucial. It's like money really. When you've got enough
it isn't important. When you don't have enough it's very
important. Or sex...

Bill


Agreed Bill, but if the unit is showing 100% quality it doesn't
really matter what the signal level is provided there is enough
to make the thing work, and in my limited experience that seems
to be pretty well anything north of a 60% indication. Many people
have a problem getting their head around it if the quality and
signal levels are not the same or the level is higher, but as we
both know that is not always the case with DTTV is it?


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

BBC4 HD
 

Woody wrote:
"Bill Wright" wrote in message

The biggest determinant of signal quality at the receiver input
is carrier to noise ratio, so the strength of the carrier (the
signal) is a very important factor. Signal strength is not
important, as long as there's enough.

Agreed Bill, but if the unit is showing 100% quality

Ah now then wait a minute, steady on, hold your horses! I didn't realise
you were basing your remarks on the ludicrously inaccurate and
untrustworthy signal and quality indicators found on the average
domestic receiver. I thought we were talking about real quantities and
ratios, not fantasy stuff.

it doesn't
really matter what the signal level is provided there is enough
to make the thing work,

That's what I said

and in my limited experience that seems
to be pretty well anything north of a 60% indication.

I bench test all the receivers that are used for our head-ends. This
includes making sure they decode perfectly from a weak (but clean)
signal. The 'signal strength' indication of the various receivers
appears to have no consistent relationship to the units' ability to
decode, or indeed to the signal level available. If there is a quality
indication it will have no consistent relationship to the BER or to the
decoding.

Many people
have a problem getting their head around it if the quality and
signal levels are not the same or the level is higher, but as we
both know that is not always the case with DTTV is it?

Occasionally residents in flats served by communal satellite systems
express their concern at the low signal level indication on their Sky
box. The fact is that levels provided can be 10 to 15db below the level
from an LNB with no ill effects.

Bill

BBC4 HD
 

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 07:40:27 +0000, Mark Carver
wrote:

On 01/12/2013 22:28, Scott wrote:

Black Hill / Blackhill is on channel 32 which is out of band for my
Group B aerial. The signal strength is lower than existing HD but
quality reported as very high. Can I assume that because DVB-T2 is a
newer system a lower signal strength is acceptable?

The ERPs for nearly all of the Mux 7 transmitters are higher than
originally specified, Black Hill (according to the Digital UK postcode
checker) is running at a gnat's hair below 40kW, so only 4dB lower than
the main six muxes that are 100kW.

Found this post now!

Any ideas when BBC Four HD will start - will it be before the end of
Borgen :-)