Which pips?
 

I'm sure this has been asked many times before, but I haven't seen it
.....

I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital is
always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time signal?


Come to think of it I have another question, related, and equally dumb.
Given that digital is digital, and therefore completely under the
control of the broadcasters (as opposed to the 'organic' FM signal), why
in the name of all that's holy do "they" not synchronise the football
commentary over digital radio, so that it matches TV coverage of the
game? It's bloody annoying hearing about a goal several seconds before
(or sometimes after?) it happens!

John

Which pips?
 

On 09/09/2013 22:26, Another John wrote:
I'm sure this has been asked many times before, but I haven't seen it
.....

I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital is
always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time signal?

The analogue signal is "more accurate". My watch is one which receives
a radio signal (from Germany), and that shows DAB time to be about 3
seconds late. However, all radio signals, whether analogue or digital,
take a finite time to process for transmission, to get from transmitter
to receiver, and to be processed at the receiver. Then there is the
time taken to transfer from the loudspeaker to your ear, and the time
your ear, nerves, and brain take to process the pips sound (all these
should be the same whether the radio is analogue or digital). Of
course, my watch also takes time to respond to the radio signal, and the
minute hand to move. So which is the "real" time?

The only really accurate time signal is that which is defined to be the
standard. See http://www.timeanddate.com/time/inte...omic-time.html

Come to think of it I have another question, related, and equally dumb.
Given that digital is digital, and therefore completely under the
control of the broadcasters (as opposed to the 'organic' FM signal), why
in the name of all that's holy do "they" not synchronise the football
commentary over digital radio, so that it matches TV coverage of the
game? It's bloody annoying hearing about a goal several seconds before
(or sometimes after?) it happens!

It takes different times for radio and tv to process their digital
signals (I would think that SD processing time is shorter than HD, too,
but I am sure someone can confirm this or not as the case may be). If
the differences are constant, I guess a fixed built-in delay could be
added to synchronise the transmitted signals, but that doesn't deal with
differences in time taken for the receivers to process the signals. No
doubt different makes would have different processing times.

--

Jeff

Which pips?
 

To summarise: the FM pips. The DAB pips are delayed because your DAB
radio takes a certain time to decode the signal.


--
SteveT

Which pips?
 

Jeff Layman wrote:

On 09/09/2013 22:26, Another John wrote:
I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital is
always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time signal?

The analogue signal is "more accurate". My watch is one which receives
a radio signal (from Germany), and that shows DAB time to be about 3
seconds late. However, all radio signals, whether analogue or digital,
take a finite time to process for transmission, to get from transmitter
to receiver, and to be processed at the receiver. Then there is the
time taken to transfer from the loudspeaker to your ear, and the time
your ear, nerves, and brain take to process the pips sound (all these
should be the same whether the radio is analogue or digital). Of
course, my watch also takes time to respond to the radio signal, and the
minute hand to move. So which is the "real" time?

Additionally, in the case of a time digitally displayed only to
the minute, is it better to have the changeover at the exact
time, or 30 seconds later so that the maximum error from the
indicated time is 30 seconds?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Which pips?
 

In message , Steve Thackery
writes


To summarise: the FM pips. The DAB pips are delayed because your DAB
radio takes a certain time to decode the signal.

And, of course, the transmitting end takes a certain time to encode the
signal.

As has been said, different models of radio take slightly different
times to do the decoding, and this can lead to some interesting echo
effects if you have several DAB radios on in different parts of the
house (re a question asked a few years ago: "How many radios does it
take to listen to Terry Wogan when you're getting ready to go to work in
the morning?").
--
Ian

Which pips?
 

another strange one is if you have a radio station of another country on,
say short wave. You find the hour signal can be at least two minutes
different to others. I'd have thought in this day and age with such precise
clockery, that all this would be sorted, maybe sourced by theradio itself
from some synchronised signal in the transmitter.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Another John" wrote in message
...
I'm sure this has been asked many times before, but I haven't seen it
....

I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital is
always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time signal?


Come to think of it I have another question, related, and equally dumb.
Given that digital is digital, and therefore completely under the
control of the broadcasters (as opposed to the 'organic' FM signal), why
in the name of all that's holy do "they" not synchronise the football
commentary over digital radio, so that it matches TV coverage of the
game? It's bloody annoying hearing about a goal several seconds before
(or sometimes after?) it happens!

John

Which pips?
 

On 10/09/2013 08:24, Chris J Dixon wrote:

Additionally, in the case of a time digitally displayed only to
the minute, is it better to have the changeover at the exact
time, or 30 seconds later so that the maximum error from the
indicated time is 30 seconds?

Chris

Ah, that sounds like the problem of an unwound clock compared to a clock
which loses or gains a few seconds a day irregularly. The unwound clock
will always be right twice a day, whereas the one which loses or gains a
few seconds may never show the correct time!

--

Jeff

Which pips?
 

In article
,
Another John wrote:
I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital is
always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time signal?

How could you make a time signal which is sync'd to the most accurate of
sources early?

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Which pips?
 

On 10/09/2013 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Another wrote:
I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital is
always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time signal?

How could you make a time signal which is sync'd to the most accurate of
sources early?


In pedantic terms you can't of course. But you could achieve the same
thing by syncing it to the source minus 2 seconds, or whatever.

The only problem is that that relies on a constant processing delay -
which is unlikely to be realised.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Which pips?
 

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
On 10/09/2013 11:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
Another wrote:
I had both my digital radio and my FM radio on this teatime, in
different rooms. At 6pm The Pips were broadcast. Given that digital
is always out of synch with FM -- which is the more accurate time
signal?

How could you make a time signal which is sync'd to the most accurate
of sources early?


In pedantic terms you can't of course. But you could achieve the same
thing by syncing it to the source minus 2 seconds, or whatever.

Could you? You'd need the same degree of accuracy as the original source
to make this worthwhile.

The only problem is that that relies on a constant processing delay -
which is unlikely to be realised.

Quite. And even in pure analogue days, there will still be some delay
between the original signal and it reaching a listener's ears.

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.