BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

Last night I noticed that:

1) That the 'Parliament' channel seems to be 'off' for the duration of the
Lumpits. Presumably the BBC feel that people running around a field is more
important than being able to scrutinise what our Lords and Masters are up
to...

2) That the Prom broadcast on BBC4 (Freeview) has a rather less detailed
picture that usual. Despite being a part of the much heralded 'event' of
Barenboim conducting the entire set of Beethoven symphonies.

Which makes me suspect that both are being sacrificed for the Lumpits to
hog data bandwidth.

I don't have a way to check the actual bitrate for Freeview stations.
Anyone know what the rate was during the Prom last night? And how it
compares to the normal pre-Lumpits?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

Last night I noticed that:

1) That the 'Parliament' channel seems to be 'off' for the duration of the
Lumpits. Presumably the BBC feel that people running around a field is
more
important than being able to scrutinise what our Lords and Masters are up
to...

2) That the Prom broadcast on BBC4 (Freeview) has a rather less detailed
picture that usual. Despite being a part of the much heralded 'event' of
Barenboim conducting the entire set of Beethoven symphonies.

Which makes me suspect that both are being sacrificed for the Lumpits to
hog data bandwidth.

I don't have a way to check the actual bitrate for Freeview stations.
Anyone know what the rate was during the Prom last night? And how it
compares to the normal pre-Lumpits?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


Most UK parliaments are in recess now - our Scottish one gets underway again
at the end of August, I think. So BBC Parliament usually becomes a political
documentary channel - sometimes quite interesting - more interesting than
the London Sports Days anyway.

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't have a way to check the actual bitrate for Freeview stations.
Anyone know what the rate was during the Prom last night? And how it
compares to the normal pre-Lumpits?

Bit of a rant on the subject at

http://www.bsaoc.com/Freeview_News_C...eview_News.txt

--
Dave

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On 27/07/2012 09:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:
I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

BBC 4's resolution has been reduced, now running at 544 x 576

Summary of observed changes he-

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=59848998&postcount=1054


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 27/07/2012 09:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:
I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

BBC 4's resolution has been reduced, now running at 544 x 576

Summary of observed changes he-

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=59848998&postcount=1054

Ta! The drops are depressing. Sport conquers all at the BBC as usual. :-/

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , Dave
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't have a way to check the actual bitrate for Freeview stations.
Anyone know what the rate was during the Prom last night? And how it
compares to the normal pre-Lumpits?

Bit of a rant on the subject at

http://www.bsaoc.com/Freeview_News_C...eview_News.txt

Thanks for the sad news. :-/

So for the next few weeks we'll not only have the bulk of BBC TV devoted to
people running around, but the other programs will be squashed down.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 27/07/2012 09:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:
I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

BBC 4's resolution has been reduced, now running at 544 x 576

Summary of observed changes he-

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=59848998&postcount=1054

Ta! The drops are depressing. Sport conquers all at the BBC as usual. :-/

At least they've commandeered the whole of BBC1, and (some) programmes that
would be on BBC1 have been moved to BBC2. So maybe (just maybe) all that
over-running Lumpit sports will bugger-up will be other Lumpit sports poetic
justice), not other programmes - unless they shift anything from BBC1 to
BBC2.

I hope if any non-Lumpit programmes do get displaced, they get totally
cancelled from their original slot and rescheduled properly a few days later
so they appear as new entries in EPGs and will get recorded. BBC doesn't
have a very good record of doing this: they are inclined at a few minutes'
notice to move a programme to a different channel or delay it by an hour or
so, without updating EPGs and force-feeding them to any recorders that use
EPGs. Consequently you miss the rescheduled programme. Broadcast voiceovers
or captions "Casualty will now be shown on BBC2" or "... will be shown at
10:30" are no use to video recorders (whether VHS, DVD, HDD, Windows Media
Centre or whatever).

I was quite surprised that I couldn't tell the difference between 544x576
and 720x576 when I watched the last two episodes of The Bill (one recorded
from ITV3, the other from ITV1) just now - I've had them sitting on my hard
disk for ages...

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't have a way to check the actual bitrate for Freeview stations.
Anyone know what the rate was during the Prom last night? And how it
compares to the normal pre-Lumpits?

Bit of a rant on the subject at

http://www.bsaoc.com/Freeview_News_C...eview_News.txt

Scary that they are proposing to allow 4G to interfere with broadcast TV,
when they've taken so much care up to now to avoid DTTV interfering with
analogue or with other DTTV from neighbouring regions.

Why did they not combine DSO with reducing the sixe of the spectrum, so as
to allow a clear demarcation between broadcast TV and 4G, instead of
interleaving the two?

Why the assumption that everyone is able to have satellite or is in a cable
area? What about people who have many other TVs and recording devices, maybe
bought specially in anticipation of DSO?

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end. Can you get USB
FreeSat decoders (like USB DVB decoders) for Windows Media Centre to allow
programmes to be recorded on PC so they can be edited (top/tail,
commercials) and kept, rather than just being recorded on a Sky box of
limited capacity and with no scope for archiving or editing.

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

Last night I noticed that:

1) That the 'Parliament' channel seems to be 'off' for the duration of the
Lumpits. Presumably the BBC feel that people running around a field is
more
important than being able to scrutinise what our Lords and Masters are up
to...

The House of Commons is in recess. The House will next sit on 3rd September.
The House of Lords is in recess. The House will next sit on 8th October.
The "running round a field" doesn't start until 3rd August and finishes on
12th August.


2) That the Prom broadcast on BBC4 (Freeview) has a rather less detailed
picture that usual. Despite being a part of the much heralded 'event' of
Barenboim conducting the entire set of Beethoven symphonies.

Surely the audio is of more importance to you than the picture. If this is
not the case, then I am sure that you are aware that several of the
Promenade Concerts are shown live or repeated on BBC HD or BBC 1 HD. The
Last Night will also be shown in 3D.

And the Proms are very much a minority interest in televisual terms. Many
more people will be interested in the womens' beach volleyball.

--
JohnT

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , Mortimer
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=59848998&postcount=1054

Ta! The drops are depressing. Sport conquers all at the BBC as usual.
:-/


I hope if any non-Lumpit programmes do get displaced, they get totally
cancelled from their original slot and rescheduled properly a few days
later so they appear as new entries in EPGs and will get recorded. BBC
doesn't have a very good record of doing this: they are inclined at a
few minutes' notice to move a programme to a different channel or delay
it by an hour or so, without updating EPGs and force-feeding them to
any recorders that use EPGs. Consequently you miss the rescheduled
programme.

The problem there is that some of us rely on sources like 'Radio Times' and
don't spend time scanning the EPG in the hope that a programme that was
meant to be on yesterday is on a 4:30 in the afternoon today! :-)

Alas, RT has a poor track record even with schedules that *haven't* been
changed at the last moment.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Mortimer wrote:

Scary that they are proposing to allow 4G to interfere with broadcast TV,
when they've taken so much care up to now to avoid DTTV interfering with
analogue or with other DTTV from neighbouring regions.

Why did they not combine DSO with reducing the sixe of the spectrum, so as
to allow a clear demarcation between broadcast TV and 4G, instead of
interleaving the two?

AIUI the original post-DSO frequency plan has been trumped by an
international conference earlier this year which mandated clearing the HF
end of the band for mobile telephony. Hence the need for yet more frequency
changes.
--
Dave

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article ,
says...

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.


Rubbish!

I might never have touched a dish in my life but at least I know that
much!

You need a quattro (as opposed to quad) LNB connected to a Multiswitch.

--

Terry

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , JohnT
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

Last night I noticed that:

1) That the 'Parliament' channel seems to be 'off' for the duration of
the Lumpits. Presumably the BBC feel that people running around a
field is more important than being able to scrutinise what our Lords
and Masters are up to...

The House of Commons is in recess. The House will next sit on 3rd
September. The House of Lords is in recess. The House will next sit on
8th October. The "running round a field" doesn't start until 3rd August
and finishes on 12th August.

However the 'Parliament' channel isn't confined to only conveying the
Westminster Parliament.


2) That the Prom broadcast on BBC4 (Freeview) has a rather less
detailed picture that usual. Despite being a part of the much heralded
'event' of Barenboim conducting the entire set of Beethoven symphonies.

Surely the audio is of more importance to you than the picture.

Correct. But the point of having the event on TV is to be able to see it
(with reasonably clarity) as well as hear it. TBH given that my eyesight is
poor I suspect the fact that the picture looked bad to me means it fell to
a low standard.

If this is not the case, then I am sure that you are aware that several
of the Promenade Concerts are shown live or repeated on BBC HD or BBC 1
HD. The Last Night will also be shown in 3D.

Exciting as that may be for some, I'm actually happy enough with the Radio
Three 320k iPlayer stream. And listened to the Prom that way when live. But
being able to see the instrumental fingering, etc, is good - when visible
on TV.

And the Proms are very much a minority interest in televisual terms.
Many more people will be interested in the womens' beach volleyball.

I guess that is why so many BBC channels look to be Lumpits-only. Yes I can
appreciate that many will find the beach volleyball an intellectual feast.
Pretty much sums up sport on TV - watching people run around in their
underwear. ;-

Strange though, that a major BBC event like the Proms, when featuring a
international musical event in the Barenboim Beethoven cycle should treat
it as being of so little worth. Still, maybe those viewing it abroad might
get a much better view than mere members of the UK public who should be
grateful from every crumb provided by Freeview.

Perhaps we should have asked the BBC to provide the Proms as a sound track
for the Lumpits. They could then have stamped their 'brand' on it more
clearly. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On 27/07/2012 12:02, Dave wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

I don't have a way to check the actual bitrate for Freeview stations.
Anyone know what the rate was during the Prom last night? And how it
compares to the normal pre-Lumpits?

Bit of a rant on the subject at

http://www.bsaoc.com/Freeview_News_C...eview_News.txt



glad i use satellite - even if that could be better than it is, it seems
far better than terrestrial.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Mortimer wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.

What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?

Bill

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

The problem there is that some of us rely on sources like 'Radio Times'

Print media, in the opinion of those who run broadcasting, is dead. It's
what grandad used to read before he cut in into squares and hung it on
the nail in a lavatory.

Bill

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

The problem there is that some of us rely on sources like 'Radio
Times'

Print media, in the opinion of those who run broadcasting, is dead.

They probably do, if we judge on their behaviour. However it seems weird if
the people who work at Radio Times also think so...

TBH my main reason for buying RT is to let me note what items I want to
listen to on the radio. These days, mainly via the iPlayer. But since they
devote the bulk of the space in its pages to TV you'd think they might want
to avoid errors in the listings.

A trivial example is that last night's Prom on BBC4 was listed in bold type
as 'live'. But it was a recording of a Prom from earlier in the week.

Maybe they were confused because the last Prom in the Beethoven cycle was
yesterday.

Reverting to the Lumpits... The real curio yesterday is that the timing of
the Barenboim Beethoven cycle looks very much like it was timed as a lead
up to the Lumpics. The 9th Symphony being performed just before the
official opening ceremony of the Lumpits. There has been a lot of posturing
about 'cultural Lumpits' events to try and pretend it is more than a
beanfeast for the benefit of the commercial sponsors.

Maybe BBC4 thought they'd be allowed decent bitrates for it by linking it
into the Lumpits. But since the players weren't wearing numbered vests and
spiked shoes I guess that was a false start. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:38:31 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:

The problem there is that some of us rely on sources like 'Radio Times'

Print media, in the opinion of those who run broadcasting, is dead. It's
what grandad used to read before he cut in into squares and hung it on
the nail in a lavatory.

Broadcast media, in the opinion of those who run the phone and internet
companies, is dead.
I doubt you'd want to wipe your arse on it though.

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:33:12 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.

What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?

When has that ever stopped anybody?

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:43:13 +0100, "Mortimer" wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.

One dish with a quad or quattro LNB can be used to feed an unlimited
number of receivers via a multiswitch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiswitch

....
....
Multiswitches are commonly installed on or in blocks of flats in the
UK to allow all the residents to receive satellite TV without having
to have a separate dish for every resident.

I live in a house. I have one dish with a 4-feed LNB. At the moment I
have 2 Freesat recorders and one Freesat STB. They use 5 of the outputs
from my 8-output multiswitch which leaves 3 spare outputs.

This is one seller of such boxes:
http://www.satellitesuperstore.com/multiswitch.htm



Can you get USB
FreeSat decoders (like USB DVB decoders) for Windows Media Centre to allow
programmes to be recorded on PC so they can be edited (top/tail,
commercials) and kept, rather than just being recorded on a Sky box of
limited capacity and with no scope for archiving or editing.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , Jim Lesurf
scribeth thus
In article , Bill Wright
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

The problem there is that some of us rely on sources like 'Radio
Times'

Print media, in the opinion of those who run broadcasting, is dead.

They probably do, if we judge on their behaviour. However it seems weird if
the people who work at Radio Times also think so...

TBH my main reason for buying RT is to let me note what items I want to
listen to on the radio. These days, mainly via the iPlayer. But since they
devote the bulk of the space in its pages to TV you'd think they might want
to avoid errors in the listings.

A trivial example is that last night's Prom on BBC4 was listed in bold type
as 'live'. But it was a recording of a Prom from earlier in the week.

Maybe they were confused because the last Prom in the Beethoven cycle was
yesterday.

Reverting to the Lumpits... The real curio yesterday is that the timing of
the Barenboim Beethoven cycle looks very much like it was timed as a lead
up to the Lumpics. The 9th Symphony being performed just before the
official opening ceremony of the Lumpits.


Yes so it was perhaps they thought that their staff might like to see
that somewhere..

Also Barenboim was at the Olympics holding the flag;!..



--
Tony Sayer

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
scribeth thus

Reverting to the Lumpits... The real curio yesterday is that the timing
of the Barenboim Beethoven cycle looks very much like it was timed as a
lead up to the Lumpics. The 9th Symphony being performed just before
the official opening ceremony of the Lumpits.


Yes so it was perhaps they thought that their staff might like to see
that somewhere..

Also Barenboim was at the Olympics holding the flag;!..

Maybe he realised that was the only way BBC 'Freeview' viewers would be
able to see clearly who he was. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 02:33:12 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.
What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?

When has that ever stopped anybody?
I never do it. All my posts are totally factual and based on the best
scientific research.

Bill

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Bill Wright wrote:
Mortimer wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.

What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?
Bill

Seems Multiswitch's are alien to the poor chap

Steve Terry
--
Get a free GiffGaff PAYG Sim and £5 bonus after activation at:
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/gfourwwk

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:20:13 +0100, Steve Terry wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.

What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?
Bill

Seems Multiswitch's are alien to the poor chap

Multiswitch's what?

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 17:46:08 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?

When has that ever stopped anybody?
I never do it. All my posts are totally factual and based on the best
scientific research.

That reminds me... it must be time to open a bottle.

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:20:13 +0100, Steve Terry wrote:

The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many receivers
because some of the receiving technology is at the dish end.
What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?
Bill

Seems Multiswitch's are alien to the poor chap

Multiswitch's what?
He meant a multiswitch's use. He just missed a few letters out.

Bill

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Bill Wright wrote:
Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 19:20:13 +0100, Steve Terry
wrote:
The problem with satellite is that one dish can't feed many
receivers because some of the receiving technology is at the dish
end.
What's the point of posting if you don't know what you're on about?
Bill

Seems Multiswitch's are alien to the poor chap

Multiswitch's what?

He meant a multiswitch's use. He just missed a few letters out.
Bill

Deepest apologies for the superfluous apostrophe, the "butcher's"
responsible will be shot ;-p

Steve Terry
--
Get a free GiffGaff PAYG Sim and £5 bonus after activation at:
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/gfourwwk

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Mark Carver wrote:

On 27/07/2012 09:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:

I'm wondering just how much effect the Lumpits is going to have on the
quality, etc, of what the rest of the BBC output will be like.

BBC 4's resolution has been reduced

Have they turned off text services on DAB to make way for the R5L
olympics channel?

BBC4 bitrate and the Lumpits
 

Andy Burns wrote:

Have they turned off text services on DAB to make way for the R5L
olympics channel?

Radio Text (or whatever it's called) seems to have been back this week,
was the extra bandwidth really required, or was it coincidental?