S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

"Silk" wrote in message
...
On 14/07/2012 13:49, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , John
writes
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:46:47 +0100, Peter
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:53:47 +0100, Silk wrote:


There are no living mono-lingual Welsh speakers, which is pretty much
the definition of a dead language.


That's not strictly true. Many children, up to the age of say 5 or 6
are monoglot Welsh speakers, learing English when they start school.

There are still many people who's first language, i.e. their language
of choice, is Welsh.

I knew one such, a lovely old chap from a totally unpronouncable place
in West Wales, who didn't learn English until his teens. He'd be
around 96 if he's still around today.

As the UK is essentially an English-speaking nation, I would have
thought that if you're not reasonably fluent in English by the age of
five or six, that must inevitably tend to affect your academic progress
and also your limit ability to get a decent job later on.

Unless you live in Wales and want a public or media job.

Believe it or not, there are laws that say when the Welsh language has to
be used. For example, if you go into a French restaurant, the toilets may
be labled in French, but they also have to be labled in Welsh by law, but
not English. Madness!

In fact, there are no laws that make the use of English compulsory in
Wales.

Are there any laws which make the use of English compulsory in England?

--
JohnT

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

On 14/07/2012 22:08, JohnT wrote:

Are there any laws which make the use of English compulsory in England?


English isn't a dead language, so there's no need to prop it up with laws.

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

On 14/07/2012 19:26, Alan White wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:47:12 +0100, Peter
wrote:

...and the BBC two organisations that spring readily to
mind

That wasn't the case in 1963. When was that brought in?

1964?

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

JohnT wrote:
"Silk" wrote in message
...
On 14/07/2012 13:49, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , John
writes
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:46:47 +0100, Peter
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:53:47 +0100, Silk wrote:
snip
In fact, there are no laws that make the use of English compulsory in
Wales.

Are there any laws which make the use of English compulsory in
England?

I've been to both Harrow and Tottenham in the last few days
and can confirm it is isn't compulsory there

Steve Terry
--
Get a free GiffGaff PAYG Sim and £5 bonus after activation at:
http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/gfourwwk

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

On Saturday, 14 July 2012 17:07:57 UTC+1, Silk wrote:
Believe it or not, there are laws that say when the Welsh language has
to be used. For example, if you go into a French restaurant, the toilets
may be labled in French, but they also have to be labled in Welsh by
law, but not English. Madness!

In fact, there are no laws that make the use of English compulsory in Wales.

There were laws forbidden public office to welsh speaker enacted c1540 which weren't repealed in their entirety until c1993. I was educated entirely in english despite been a child of a welsh first language family in the NW heartland of the language. So a telly channel and some bilingual documents for 750000 speakers seems to be be not much of payback for 700 years of colonial rule (especially as HMG are happy to spend £60m a year to keep 3000 on the Falklands.)

I know some folk that take the view 'heb iaith heb pobl': without language without a people i.e., if you don't speak welsh you're just english with a regional accent (and a pretty awful one if you're from Cardiff.) I can see how that might irk folk in the anglophone areas but your bile is way over the top. Not I view I subscribe to - I evening have english friends but then I do live in Birmingham ;-)

And I do what S4C , probably more then ITV.

Gareth

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

In message , JohnT
writes

"Silk" wrote in message
...
On 14/07/2012 13:49, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , John
writes
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:46:47 +0100, Peter
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:53:47 +0100, Silk wrote:


There are no living mono-lingual Welsh speakers, which is pretty much
the definition of a dead language.


That's not strictly true. Many children, up to the age of say 5 or 6
are monoglot Welsh speakers, learing English when they start school.

There are still many people who's first language, i.e. their language
of choice, is Welsh.

I knew one such, a lovely old chap from a totally unpronouncable place
in West Wales, who didn't learn English until his teens. He'd be
around 96 if he's still around today.

As the UK is essentially an English-speaking nation, I would have
thought that if you're not reasonably fluent in English by the age of
five or six, that must inevitably tend to affect your academic progress
and also your limit ability to get a decent job later on.

Unless you live in Wales and want a public or media job.

Believe it or not, there are laws that say when the Welsh language
has to be used. For example, if you go into a French restaurant, the
toilets may be labled in French, but they also have to be labled in
Welsh by law, but not English. Madness!

In fact, there are no laws that make the use of English compulsory in
Wales.

Are there any laws which make the use of English compulsory in England?

There don't even appear to be any laws making it compulsory to teach
English in schools, like.
--
Ian

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

In message , Silk
writes
On 14/07/2012 10:46, Peter wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:53:47 +0100, wrote:


There are no living mono-lingual Welsh speakers, which is pretty much
the definition of a dead language.


That's not strictly true. Many children, up to the age of say 5 or 6
are monoglot Welsh speakers, learing English when they start school.

Their parents should be arrested and sent to prison for child abuse. No
right-minded person would deliberately put their child at a
disadvantage in this way.

There are still many people who's first language, i.e. their language
of choice, is Welsh.

What they do in their own home is their choice. They shouldn't be
allowed to inflict it on the rest of the population or seek to
disadvantage those who won't go along with their facist ways.

All said without a hint of irony.

That's "Fascist" by the way.
--
Ian

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

Steve Terry wrote:

Are there any laws which make the use of English compulsory in
England?

I've been to both Harrow and Tottenham in the last few days
and can confirm it is isn't compulsory there

Some parts of Sheffield no-one speaks it.

Bill

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 19:35:07 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Peter
writes
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:49:47 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , John
writes
On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:46:47 +0100, Peter
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:53:47 +0100, Silk wrote:


There are no living mono-lingual Welsh speakers, which is pretty much
the definition of a dead language.


That's not strictly true. Many children, up to the age of say 5 or 6
are monoglot Welsh speakers, learing English when they start school.

There are still many people who's first language, i.e. their language
of choice, is Welsh.

I knew one such, a lovely old chap from a totally unpronouncable place
in West Wales, who didn't learn English until his teens. He'd be
around 96 if he's still around today.

As the UK is essentially an English-speaking nation, I would have
thought that if you're not reasonably fluent in English by the age of
five or six, that must inevitably tend to affect your academic progress
and also your limit ability to get a decent job later on.


There are many jobs in Wales that are closed to people unable to speak
Welsh - politics and the BBC two organisations that spring readily to
mind

I didn't say you needn't be able to speak Welsh. What I'm saying is that
if you leave it too late to become reasonably fluent in English, you
would well be at a disadvantage. However - as has been pointed out -
there are some jobs that you simply won't get (I suppose at least if
you're not a passable Welsh speaker).

Biggest laugh for us is that many, if not most, offical bodies must
answer the telephone first with a burst of Welsh, followed by,
presumably, the English version. I asked my wife what happened when
the caller turned out to be a Welsh speaker who, heartened to find
somebody to talk to, babbled on in that language. Her answer was,
"panic, then apologise" and went on to explain that in ten years it
had never happened to her or anyone she knew - she worked then for a
fairly major training college.

S4C HD ( Clirlun ) to be ditched at the end of 2012
 

On Sunday, July 15th, 2012, at 07:57:24h +0100, Harry reported:

I asked my wife what happened when the caller turned out to be a
Welsh speaker who, heartened to find somebody to talk to,
*babbled on in* that language.

Does your wife regard all spoken communication which is not
in English to be "babbling"?