Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and found
that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the Freeview
programs.
To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being cheated as
like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I had thought the half program
transmitters would be in small low populated areas way out in the country
villages.
Regards
David

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On 15/06/2012 10:56, David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half
the Freeview programs.
To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being
cheated as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I had thought the
half program transmitters would be in small low populated areas way
out in the country villages.
Regards
David
High Wycombe is the same. only the 3 muxex. you would have thought they
could have had 4 at least.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On 15/06/2012 11:17, Gary wrote:
On 15/06/2012 10:56, David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half
the Freeview programs.
To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being
cheated as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I had thought the
half program transmitters would be in small low populated areas way
out in the country villages.
Regards
David
High Wycombe is the same. only the 3 muxex. you would have thought they
could have had 4 at least.
You want to try living in Wales mate....we get two SD mux's only.

Rob.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

"David" wrote in message
...
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and found
that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the
Freeview programs.
To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being cheated
as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I had thought the half program
transmitters would be in small low populated areas way out in the country
villages.

I live on the edge of a city with a population of 250,000 and get full
freeview because I am lucky enough to have line of sight to the main
transmitter which is situated out on the other edge. However, in the city
itself there are 4 areas that are only covered by, what are now called,
public service transmitters and therefore the folks can only get the BBCs,
ITV1 and 2, C4 and C5 plus E4 and More4 and about 3 other minor channels - I
think it's about 15 or so channels in total?

The area is hilly and tv reception has always been an issue, hence the
repeater transmitters to service the more difficult areas and yes, I too
think they are being cheated.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

In article , David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the
Freeview programs. To me it is a large populated area and the people
there are being cheated as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I
had thought the half program transmitters would be in small low
populated areas way out in the country villages.

Nothing to do with taxes. These extra channels are provided (or not) by
free enterprise (aka Commercial Interests).

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

Would we say then it is Ofcom's fault for not making it a condition in
contracts that all services be provided?
Regards
David

"charles" wrote in message
...

In article , David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the
Freeview programs. To me it is a large populated area and the people
there are being cheated as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I
had thought the half program transmitters would be in small low
populated areas way out in the country villages.

Nothing to do with taxes. These extra channels are provided (or not) by
free enterprise (aka Commercial Interests).

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 10:56:01h +0100, David Park opined:

To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being cheated as
like the rest of us pay the taxes etc.

Which taxes are these to which you refer?

The TV licence does not guarantee reception of any TV station,
merely the legal authorisation to receive and display visual
broadcasts for the term of the licence.

Would you therefore explain in what way these people are "being cheated"
and by whom they are "being cheated".

Previously the relays provided 4 tv stations: now they are providing
about 15 tv stations and BBC radio stations (but not in Scotland in
late afternoon and evening) and a radio station in the occupied territory
of Ireland.

Perhaps you should ask ITV plc and Channel 4 why they cheat viewers
and have the continuous repeats stations ITV-1+1 and Channel 4 +1 on the
public multiplexes rather than non timeshifted content and why Ofcon
and the champion of the free and independent broadcasting industry,
the Right Honorable Jeremy Hunt has not intervened?

Maybe the answer you will get will be the standard one --
it is a commercial decision and it is not the place of the
nanny state government to intervene and spoil the profits
of the commercial broadcasters and multiplex operators.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 12:27:58h +0100, David Park asked:

Would we say then it is Ofcom's fault for not making it a condition in
contracts that all services be provided?

You cannot blame OfCom for not doing something they are not required to do,
and in fact which would be contrary to what they are required to do by law.

Who you can blame, and who you appear to refuse to acknowledge as the
source of the problem, is Tessa Jowell and Tory Bliar who were the
architects of the Broadcasting Act 2003 which enshrined OfCon as
a light touch, deregulatory authority, let the market decide, whose
primary goal was to ensure the maximum commercial profitability of
the public airwaves.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

In message , Yellow wrote

The area is hilly and tv reception has always been an issue, hence the
repeater transmitters to service the more difficult areas and yes, I too
think they are being cheated.


That's why there is Freesat.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

news.plus.net wrote:

High Wycombe is the same. only the 3 muxex. you would have thought they
could have had 4 at least.

You want to try living in Wales mate....we get two SD mux's only.

Yes, same as High Wycombe, and all the so called 'Freeview Lite'
transmitters, 2 SD muxes (BBC and ITV/4/5) and the HD Mux.

Isn't all of this a fuss about not very much, even with the basic two SD
muxes, there's about 15 to 20 channels, much more than the four
analogues available pre DSO. Is the content of the three COM muxes,
really that compelling ?

I can't remember the last time I watched any COM mux channel, other than
out of morbid interest.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 14:12:01h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

I can't remember the last time I watched any COM mux channel,
other than out of morbid interest.

And now that "Filth" is FTA on satellite ...


But seriously, what about ITV-3, ITV-4, Dave [maybe?] and Quest ? ;)

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

"J G Miller" wrote in message ...


Previously the relays provided 4 tv stations: now they are providing
about 15 tv stations and BBC radio stations (but not in Scotland in
late afternoon and evening) and a radio station in the occupied territory
of Ireland.



Yes previously 4 as you say not 3 but 4, but the they are now only doing 3
muxes at least they should have done 4.

At Ramsbottom I was not getting Sky News that is an important one to me and
I agree some of the programs on a main transmitter are absolute rubbish.
As some have said it is all about being commercial so a lot of people must
be watching the rubbish ones.

Regards
David

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On 15/06/2012 12:36, J G Miller wrote:

Previously the relays provided 4 tv stations: now they are providing
about 15 tv stations and BBC radio stations (but not in Scotland in
late afternoon and evening) and a radio station in the occupied territory
of Ireland.

I didn't realise they also broadcast in that part of the Island of
Ireland that was taken from the United Kingdom by force in the earlier
part of the 20th century. I agree, they should give it back.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 14:12:01h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

I can't remember the last time I watched any COM mux channel,
other than out of morbid interest.

But seriously, what about ITV-3, ITV-4, Dave [maybe?] and Quest ? ;)

I'll concede, ITV 3 and 4 are probably the most useful services on the COMs.

Personally, I don't watch ITV 3 because I saw it all 20-30 years ago, same
applies to ITV 4, plus I'm not a sports fan. Dave, well yes, seen all that on
BBC 2 over the last 5 years, Quest contains documentaries that have been, or
turn up later on C4 or C5. Also Film 4, nothing on there that doesn't/won't
crop up on C4 eventually.

YMMV


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

"Alan" wrote in message
...
In message , Yellow wrote

The area is hilly and tv reception has always been an issue, hence the
repeater transmitters to service the more difficult areas and yes, I too
think they are being cheated.


That's why there is Freesat.

No that's not a fair arguement - these areas have access to a transmitter,
it is simply not carrying the bulk of the decent channels for commercial
reasons. Also, while they do not have Film4 or ITV3 for example, they do
have all the HD channels which means people with a crippled access can
however watch BBC1, ITV1 and C4 twice.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 16:26:26h +0100, Mark Carver explained:

Personally, I don't watch ITV 3 because I saw it all 20-30 years ago

And nostalgia ain't wot it use ta be! ;)

Quest contains documentaries that have been, or turn up later on C4 or C5.

I do wonder how Quest is remaining on Freeview since with such
a high LCN, most viewers tend to forget it is there.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 15:21:35h +0100, David wrote:

As some have said it is all about being commercial so a lot of people must
be watching the rubbish ones.

Very true -- most people are watching rubbish ;)

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On 15/06/2012 10:56, David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the
Freeview programs.
To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being
cheated as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I had thought the half
program transmitters would be in small low populated areas way out in
the country villages.
Regards
David



there's a haven park in weymouth I stay at sometimes that has the same
issue - only a selection of freeview channels through the aerial mounted
on the caravan roof.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

We were about to embark at Dover, when lid (Mark
Carver) came up to me and whispered:

much more than the four
analogues available pre DSO.

Did you misspell 5?

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
IF you think this http://bit.ly/u5EP3p is cruel
please sign this http://bit.ly/sKkzEx

---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

Paul Cummins wrote:

We were about to embark at Dover, when lid (Mark
Carver) came up to me and whispered:

much more than the four
analogues available pre DSO.

Did you misspell 5?

Ch5 on a relay?

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On 6/15/2012 4:07 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Paul Cummins wrote:

We were about to embark at Dover, when lid (Mark
Carver) came up to me and whispered:

much more than the four
analogues available pre DSO.

Did you misspell 5?

Ch5 on a relay?

Yes.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 21:07:52 +0100, Andy Burns asked:

Ch5 on a relay?

Please see the list at

http://tx.mb21.co.UK/info/625/channel5/txlist.shtml

The London Borough of Croydon has not one, but two relays
carrying Channel 5.

Is it "safe" (please, no dentists) to say that all relays which did carry
Channel 5 (eg Lancaster, Storeton, Whitehawk Hill) and covered a major
urban population area went on to broadcast all six multiplexes?

Remember "Channel 5", the televisual cultural gift to the nation by
John Major, being a commercial enterprise, wanted maximum population
coverage, exactly the same metric that was later sought by OnDigital.

And will there be celebrations and fireworks when the last remaining
Channel 5 analog transmission ceases and its fine programming is
enjoyed by means of terrestrial digital transmitters throughout
Her Britannic Majesty's realm?

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:27:58 +0100, "David"
wrote:

Would we say then it is Ofcom's fault for not making it a condition in
contracts that all services be provided?
Regards
David

"charles" wrote in message
. ..

In article , David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the
Freeview programs. To me it is a large populated area and the people
there are being cheated as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I
had thought the half program transmitters would be in small low
populated areas way out in the country villages.

Nothing to do with taxes. These extra channels are provided (or not) by
free enterprise (aka Commercial Interests).

Indeed, it is nothing to do with taxes. The services funded by the
licence fee payers and indeed all other public service broadcasts (eg,
ITV/STV/UTV/CTV) are provided at all transmitters.

It is difficult to argue that commercial services have to be provided
on a universal basis. Where would you end? Should Starbucks be
requred to provide a coffee shop in every town, village and hamlet?

An alternative argument is that through Freesat (and a clue lies i the
name) these services are in the main provided universally.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 21:07:52 +0100, Andy Burns asked:

Ch5 on a relay?

Please see the list at

http://tx.mb21.co.UK/info/625/channel5/txlist.shtml

The London Borough of Croydon has not one, but two relays
carrying Channel 5.

*Had*, and *two* relays ?

Is it "safe" (please, no dentists) to say that all relays which did carry
Channel 5 (eg Lancaster, Storeton, Whitehawk Hill) and covered a major
urban population area went on to broadcast all six multiplexes?

Only 10 relays that are/will be 'Three Mux' were/are equipped for C5 analogue.
The remaining 1070 or so relays, only ever carried four analogue services
(apart from the handful that only carried two analogues, and the three in
Hampshire that only carried one (ITV). All of those, with the exception of
Kings Lynn, Burham, and Wells-next-to-the-Sea, closed at DSO anyway.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 21:39:55h +0100, Scott wrote:

An alternative argument is that through Freesat (and a clue lies i the
name) these services are in the main provided universally.

I concur with your points except on the following details.

The BBC commercial tv stations are not available on Freesat,
because the BBC prefers that people pay money to Uncle Rupert to
watch them if they cannot receive them via Freeview.

Not all ITV-1 regional news opt outs are available on Freesat,
so viewers in some areas are deprived of their most appropriate 5
minute news bulletin.

Cymraeg viewers living outside of the range of a terrestrial
transmitter are deprived of S4C Clirlun.

Surely this is unjustifiable since S4C Clirlun is funded by
television receiving licence fees?

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 22:32:12h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

*Had*, and *two* relays ?

Yes, had (past tense) -- split of the finger there.

Oops, not two relays but two masts transmitting Channel 5.

Croydon was of course the main transmitter not a relay ;)

And from the opposite perspective, were Bristol Ilchester
Crescent and Bristol Kings Weston the only two "relays"
which did not tranmit Channel 5 but do carry all six
multiplexes?

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

We were about to embark at Dover, when (J G Miller) came
up to me and whispered:

The BBC commercial tv stations are not available on Freesat,

What BBC Comercial stations are they then?

I get BBC 1,2,3,4, Alba, News24, Parliament and all the UK and devolved
national stations on freesat.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981
IF you think this http://bit.ly/u5EP3p is cruel
please sign this http://bit.ly/sKkzEx

---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Saturday, June 16th, 2012, at 00:11:00h +0100, Paul Cummins wrote:

What BBC Comercial stations are they then?

Dave, Dejavu, Challenge, and Challenge +1

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

J G Miller wrote:

And from the opposite perspective, were Bristol Ilchester
Crescent and Bristol Kings Weston the only two "relays"
which did not tranmit Channel 5 but do carry all six
multiplexes?

Oooh no, there was also:-

Guildford
Hemel Hemstead
Pontypool
Aberdare
Lark Stoke
Malvern
Bromsgrove
Brierly Hill
Fenton
Chesterfield
Idle
Keigthly
Pendle Forest
Saddleworth
Lancaster
Rosneath

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 02:00:51 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote:

Challenge, and Challenge +1

I think you'll find those 2 are FTA on Sat.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

I guess this is why freesat exists.
Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Gary" wrote in message
...
On 15/06/2012 10:56, David wrote:
Last week was on holiday in Ramsbottom, Lancashire in my caravan and
found that this town only receives from a relay with only about half the
Freeview programs.
To me it is a large populated area and the people there are being cheated
as like the rest of us pay the taxes etc. I had thought the half
program transmitters would be in small low populated areas way out in the
country villages.
Regards
David
High Wycombe is the same. only the 3 muxex. you would have thought they
could have had 4 at least.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

I use Freesat BBC1 does give me local Leeds Programs as does ITV1.
It is HD that maybe you refer to, BBC blanks out local news out and ITV1
gives us Manchester news.
So at least ITV got more sense than the BBC.
Regards
David



"J G Miller" wrote in message ...

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 21:39:55h +0100, Scott wrote:

An alternative argument is that through Freesat (and a clue lies i the
name) these services are in the main provided universally.

I concur with your points except on the following details.

The BBC commercial tv stations are not available on Freesat,
because the BBC prefers that people pay money to Uncle Rupert to
watch them if they cannot receive them via Freeview.

Not all ITV-1 regional news opt outs are available on Freesat,
so viewers in some areas are deprived of their most appropriate 5
minute news bulletin.

Cymraeg viewers living outside of the range of a terrestrial
transmitter are deprived of S4C Clirlun.

Surely this is unjustifiable since S4C Clirlun is funded by
television receiving licence fees?

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 09:38:14 +0100, Mark Carver
wrote:

J G Miller wrote:

And from the opposite perspective, were Bristol Ilchester
Crescent and Bristol Kings Weston the only two "relays"
which did not tranmit Channel 5 but do carry all six
multiplexes?

Oooh no, there was also:-

Guildford
Hemel Hemstead
Pontypool
Aberdare
Lark Stoke
Malvern
Bromsgrove
Brierly Hill
Fenton
Chesterfield
Idle
Keigthly Keighley
Pendle Forest
Saddleworth
Lancaster
Rosneath



--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Saturday, June 16th, 2012, at 09:38:14h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

Oooh no, there was also:-

Thanks for the extensive list.

So clearly on relays there was no correspondence between
the availability of Channel 5 and digital television services
from that site except in a few unusual cases.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Saturday, June 16th, 2012, at 09:38:14h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

Oooh no, there was also:-

Thanks for the extensive list.

So clearly on relays there was no correspondence between
the availability of Channel 5 and digital television services
from that site except in a few unusual cases.

Indeed.

It also might indicate that suitable UHF allocations
for C5 analogue were 'held back' in some areas, to allow (18 mths later)
better coverage for DTT.

(If true, the right decision IMHO)

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Saturday, 16 June, 2012, at 09:41:26h +0100, CD wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jun 2012 02:00:51 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote:

Challenge, and Challenge +1

I think you'll find those 2 are FTA on Sat.

Yes they have only just recently gone FTA on satellite, but have
they been added to the Freesat EGP yet?

When I checked yesterday on one website Freesat EPG listing,
they were not present.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

On Saturday, June 16th, 2012, at 10:03:06h +0100, David Park wrote:

I use Freesat BBC1 does give me local Leeds Programs as does ITV1.

That is true for you, but for viewers in some areas, the most appropriate
ITV-1 region is encrypted.

In other words, your particular experience in no way negates what I wrote --

Not all ITV-1 regional news opt outs are available on Freesat,
so viewers in some areas are deprived of their most appropriate 5
minute news bulletin.

The affected areas are Anglia West, Central South West, Meridian North,
Meridian South East, Tyne Tees South, and Yorkshire East.

However since the huge amalgamation of ITV local news which took place,
it may be the case that some of the above no longer have an opt out
for the particular sub-region.

As far as I am aware Meridian South East still has a dedicated opt out,
so Freesat viewers there will still be deprived.

Of course when ITV plc finally becomes a single national commercial TV
network, all of the local news will disappear and it will just be
"advertising regions" as is the case with Channel 4 and Channel 5.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

In article , says...

On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 14:12:01h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

I can't remember the last time I watched any COM mux channel,
other than out of morbid interest.

And now that "Filth" is FTA on satellite ...


But seriously, what about ITV-3, ITV-4, Dave [maybe?] and Quest ? ;)

And Film4.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

In article ,
lid says...

J G Miller wrote:
On Friday, June 15th, 2012, at 14:12:01h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

I can't remember the last time I watched any COM mux channel,
other than out of morbid interest.

But seriously, what about ITV-3, ITV-4, Dave [maybe?] and Quest ? ;)

I'll concede, ITV 3 and 4 are probably the most useful services on the COMs.

Personally, I don't watch ITV 3 because I saw it all 20-30 years ago, same
applies to ITV 4, plus I'm not a sports fan. Dave, well yes, seen all that on
BBC 2 over the last 5 years, Quest contains documentaries that have been, or
turn up later on C4 or C5. Also Film 4, nothing on there that doesn't/won't
crop up on C4 eventually.

YMMV

Depends on your taste in films, but Film4 show loads of unusual and hard
to gets that are never shown on C4.

The other channels that can occasionally have a decent film or show on
are the two extra C5 spots.

Half choice Freeview transmitters
 

In article ,
lid says...

We were about to embark at Dover, when lid (Mark
Carver) came up to me and whispered:

much more than the four
analogues available pre DSO.

Did you misspell 5?

Quite a few of the relay transmitter (including my mother's which is how
come I took an interest) were never converted to show C5 so the 4
channels was it.