look around you this Christmas
 

My uncle is involved with a local initiative to persuade people to
consider the welfare of those who are lonely. We’ve discussed this quite
a lot, and then something happened today that brought the problem home
to me even more.

A very apologetic housing manager rung at lunchtime to ask if we could
possibly go out to one of the estates. He had only one complainant, but
‘he seems desperate’.

This would normally be Paul’s job, but he was at a get-together with his
mates, off I toddled. I wasn’t too happy, for a variety of reasons.

When I got to the estate I found that the complainant was alone in
several ways. He was alone in the flat and alone in the block, because
all the other flats on his stairway were boarded up. I won’t describe
the area in detail; let’s just say it was desperately rough; a nightmare
of a place.

The complainant wasn’t enjoying life. He was about 35, and things were
going badly for him. Two years ago the mental problems he’d had since
his teens had flared up. He soon lost his job at a joinery factory
because of it. His wife left him. Believe it or not his dog died. The
house was repossessed so he was given the flat — “take it or leave it”.
He did some casual work but couldn’t always bring himself to get on the
bus at the bus stop so he lost that job. The NHS seem to be doing what
they can – he had an armoury of drugs and was seeing a clinical
psychologist regularly. To me he kept repeating his personal litany –
‘depression, insomnia, agoraphobia, sleeplessness’. He was very fat, and
said that he’d put on three stone in a year.

Since then he’s lived alone, except now he has a five month old whippet
pup. Going out is difficult; going to town is impossible. He walks the
dog in the woods near the flat, which bizarrely is to him a ‘safe
place’. To me those woods are one of the most dangerous places in
England! He can’t go to the shops so his dad brings his groceries.

The loss of TV reception was to him a major disaster. He absolutely
couldn’t face going round to his dad’s for Christmas — ‘too many people;
can’t cope; I’m an embarrassment’ — so he was facing the festive season
sitting alone in the flat on that bleak estate, looking at the wall. His
dad had said that he’d call in when he could, but he had the rest of his
family to consider.

I won’t embarrass myself or you by repeating his words of absurd
gratitude when the telly started working again. But there were real
tears, which shows how much the telly meant to him, which in turns shows
how desperate was his situation.

As I drove away I felt terribly sad.

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn’t only the elderly who
can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do your bit, eh?
Even if it’s only a five minute chat it’s better than nothing.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

In article , says...

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn?t only the elderly who
can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do your bit, eh?
Even if it?s only a five minute chat it?s better than nothing.

Bill

Christmas is an odd time of year because if you have a decent family and
good friends is it the best - nothing beats it. But for those who do not
have that it is sad, lonely and depressing, not least because the TV and
advertising magnifies the party and togetherness element of the time of
year.

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 25, 1:32*am, Bill Wright wrote:

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn’t only the elderly who
can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do your bit, eh?
Even if it’s only a five minute chat it’s better than nothing.

Bill

You're a gent, Bill. Thanks for this. Vulnerable people have it tough
in many different ways that most people wouldn't be aware of. As you
say, even a little gesture can make the difference. Cheers.

look around you this Christmas
 

Not directly related, but similar:

Most people have a good streak in them.

1. I daily take the dog for a walk by the river in Cambridge.
One particular day, I was feeling down, angry - mostly work related.
That day 2 vans were parked there.
The first van was bringing a bunch of Downs, autism, etc kids for a
trip out. My situation immediately felt not so bad.
The 2nd van van had a few workers doing some maintenace on the lock.
I said to one of the workers: "When you see that, your problems don't
seem so bad, do they?"
He smiled and nodded in agreement.
The work these carers do needs supporting.

2. I was in Newmarket when an elderly, infirm lady was slowly crossing
the street. A young blonde, dolly in "hot hatch" blew her horn at her
- she was clearly in a big hurry.
Well, a bunch of "apparant yobs" started banging their hands on her
windscreen and shouted: "You'll be old yourself, one day."
I thought, well said, lads. I think and hope the driver reappraised
her response.

Anyway Bill, Well done on your contribution - espec at Christmas time.

look around you this Christmas
 

In message , the watcher
writes
Not directly related, but similar:

Most people have a good streak in them.

1. I daily take the dog for a walk by the river in Cambridge.
One particular day, I was feeling down, angry - mostly work related.
That day 2 vans were parked there.
The first van was bringing a bunch of Downs, autism, etc kids for a
trip out. My situation immediately felt not so bad.
The 2nd van van had a few workers doing some maintenace on the lock.
I said to one of the workers: "When you see that, your problems don't
seem so bad, do they?"
He smiled and nodded in agreement.
The work these carers do needs supporting.

Very true, if anyone does want to support them then have a word with
your local social services, they are always short of foster and respite
carers, especially ones interested in special needs kids. It can be
stressful but also great fun as well.


Anyway Bill, Well done on your contribution - espec at Christmas time.

Indeed, good to hear.

--
Bill
( A different one )

look around you this Christmas
 

On 25/12/2011 01:32, Bill Wright wrote:
My uncle is involved with a local initiative to persuade people to
consider the welfare of those who are lonely. We’ve discussed this quite
a lot, and then something happened today that brought the problem home
to me even more.

A very apologetic housing manager rung at lunchtime to ask if we could
possibly go out to one of the estates. He had only one complainant, but
‘he seems desperate’.

This would normally be Paul’s job, but he was at a get-together with his
mates, off I toddled. I wasn’t too happy, for a variety of reasons.

When I got to the estate I found that the complainant was alone in
several ways. He was alone in the flat and alone in the block, because
all the other flats on his stairway were boarded up. I won’t describe
the area in detail; let’s just say it was desperately rough; a nightmare
of a place.

The complainant wasn’t enjoying life. He was about 35, and things were
going badly for him. Two years ago the mental problems he’d had since
his teens had flared up. He soon lost his job at a joinery factory
because of it. His wife left him. Believe it or not his dog died. The
house was repossessed so he was given the flat — “take it or leave it”.
He did some casual work but couldn’t always bring himself to get on the
bus at the bus stop so he lost that job. The NHS seem to be doing what
they can – he had an armoury of drugs and was seeing a clinical
psychologist regularly. To me he kept repeating his personal litany –
‘depression, insomnia, agoraphobia, sleeplessness’. He was very fat, and
said that he’d put on three stone in a year.

Since then he’s lived alone, except now he has a five month old whippet
pup. Going out is difficult; going to town is impossible. He walks the
dog in the woods near the flat, which bizarrely is to him a ‘safe
place’. To me those woods are one of the most dangerous places in
England! He can’t go to the shops so his dad brings his groceries.

The loss of TV reception was to him a major disaster. He absolutely
couldn’t face going round to his dad’s for Christmas — ‘too many people;
can’t cope; I’m an embarrassment’ — so he was facing the festive season
sitting alone in the flat on that bleak estate, looking at the wall. His
dad had said that he’d call in when he could, but he had the rest of his
family to consider.

I won’t embarrass myself or you by repeating his words of absurd
gratitude when the telly started working again. But there were real
tears, which shows how much the telly meant to him, which in turns shows
how desperate was his situation.

As I drove away I felt terribly sad.

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn’t only the elderly who
can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do your bit, eh?
Even if it’s only a five minute chat it’s better than nothing.

Bill

Bill, one of the most pathetic things I saw when I was a young TV tech
in the '70s was an old woman alone in her counsel flat with practically
no possessions other than the rented TV, the chair she sat in, and some
icons of her Roman Catholic faith.

Hung on the wall was a large notice written in felt tip, it was her "Will".
"In the event of my death", it began, and went on to give details about
a small sum of money she had deposited for her funeral.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

look around you this Christmas
 

In article ,
Bill Wright writes:
snip
As I drove away I felt terribly sad.

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn’t only the elderly
who can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do
your bit, eh? Even if it’s only a five minute chat it’s better than
nothing.

Well done and well said.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

look around you this Christmas
 

Bill Wright wrote:

.....

As I drove away I felt terribly sad.

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn’t only the elderly
who can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do your
bit, eh? Even if it’s only a five minute chat it’s better than
nothing.

You're a good man, Bill.

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011
BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2011

look around you this Christmas
 

Paul - xxx wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:

....

As I drove away I felt terribly sad.

So anyway, the point of this message is, it isn’t only the elderly
who can be lonely and in need of help. So look around, and do your
bit, eh? Even if it’s only a five minute chat it’s better than
nothing.

You're a good man, Bill.
Thank you.

I'll be honest, I had this on my mind on Christmas morning, so I texted
the guy. Just a little maybe-rather-hopeless cheer-up message -- let's
hope things look up for you in the New Year etc. Needless to say he rung
back, so we had a bit of a chat about things. Apparently his dad was
going to go round for a while in the afternoon.

We're going to have to do some work on that estate in January, so maybe
I'll use his telly as the representative guinea pig for that block. From
our point of view it's useful to have someone who's likely to be at home
and likely to answer the door.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I applaud
him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and religion
earlier this year, and indeed in the thread 'TOT Political correctness gone
mad (as they say)', you'll see that he has nasty extreme right wing views.
It seems that most people on here quite rightly, have respect for his
undoubted knowledge and experience in the aerial business, but tire of his
political views. Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

phil

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 28, 9:12*pm, "phil" wrote:
You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I applaud
him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and religion
earlier this year, and indeed in the thread 'TOT Political correctness gone
mad (as they say)', you'll see that he has nasty extreme right wing views..

Phil, I have no intention to offend you / get into a verbal scrap /
other unpleasantness, but if you think that Bill shows "nasty extreme
right wing views", I have to question this. I would plead with you to
go and talk to some victims of real "nasty extreme right wing views"
and see how they suffer from them, and how the mis-attribution of
labels to opinions you personally find contemptible doesn't really
help anyone, but can actually back-fire and cause (albeit inadvertent
and unintentional) suffering to those you wish to show solidarity (or
whatever your intention may be) towards.

Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

I haven't really considered Bill to be racist, certainly I've never
read anything he's written to make me think so. I do, however,
consider him to be culturalist, but then again, who isn't? Anyone who
claims not to be is either a liar, simple, or weak. I am culturalist -
hugely so - but that doesn't detract from my (limited) tolerance of
others (of anyone, not limited to any particular metric), and my
endeavours to contribute to society in positive ways. I strive to be
English, to live my life in an English way, which to me means seeking
out the best in others and encouraging this and perhaps taking on
various positive aspects in my life.

It's easy to focus on negatives, but it's satisfying to cultivate the
positives.

Cheers.

(Christ, re-reading that, it makes me sound like a right old hippy-
dippy space-case. I'm not, but I do like their positivity!)

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:

You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I
applaud him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and
religion earlier this year .....

I'm new 'here' and all I've seen so far has been good. I don't intend
searching anyone's history no matter what anyone says. I note he posts
a lot more information and help here than I see from you ... so why
should I listen to you?

Not that it matters, I take people as I find them, not how others want
me to see them.

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011
BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2011

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:
You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I applaud
him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and religion
earlier this year, and indeed in the thread 'TOT Political correctness gone
mad (as they say)', you'll see that he has nasty extreme right wing views.
It seems that most people on here quite rightly, have respect for his
undoubted knowledge and experience in the aerial business, but tire of his
political views. Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

phil

This post is typical of left wing fascism. The writer cannot see beyond
his dislike of my views (as he perceives them).

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

David Paste wrote:

Phil, I have no intention to offend you / get into a verbal scrap /
other unpleasantness, but if you think that Bill shows "nasty extreme
right wing views", I have to question this. I would plead with you to
go and talk to some victims of real "nasty extreme right wing views"
and see how they suffer from them, and how the mis-attribution of
labels to opinions you personally find contemptible doesn't really
help anyone, but can actually back-fire and cause (albeit inadvertent
and unintentional) suffering to those you wish to show solidarity (or
whatever your intention may be) towards.
In other words, if you go round labelling people as racist just because
you don't agree with their views on, say, immigration, you weaken the
case against real racists. You cause people to think, 'oh, well if
that's racism then I'm a racist'. And although you might like to think
that these people will then alter their views to suit you, because they
don't want to think of themselves as racist, luckily most people have
enough independence of mind to resist that.

It's also the case that screaming 'racist' without justification causes
anger and embarrassment to people in racial minorities. It is actually
very patronising.

Speaking to a young teenage over Christmas I've been made aware of the
confusion that has been foisted in the minds of some members of that age
group. "Am I allowed to say that?" was the quote that started the
discussion. That sort of apparently arbitrary prohibition of language
can only foster resentment.


Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

I haven't really considered Bill to be racist, certainly I've never
read anything he's written to make me think so.
I'm tired of this whole business. As soon as anyone tries to discuss
immigration, the threat from Muslim fundamentalism, or similar issues,
some little lefty idiot pops up and screams 'racist'. It's simply a way
to stifle debate. It is the fascism of the left.

I do, however,
consider him to be culturalist, but then again, who isn't? Anyone who
claims not to be is either a liar, simple, or weak. I am culturalist -
hugely so - but that doesn't detract from my (limited) tolerance of
others (of anyone, not limited to any particular metric), and my
endeavours to contribute to society in positive ways. I strive to be
English, to live my life in an English way, which to me means seeking
out the best in others and encouraging this and perhaps taking on
various positive aspects in my life.
That all sounds good to me. I wouldn't extend it to claim that an
English or British cultural mindset is automatically better than any
other though. But we should be allowed to enjoy our own culture.

Anyway, an interesting post David.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

Paul - xxx wrote:

I'm new 'here' and all I've seen so far has been good. I don't intend
searching anyone's history no matter what anyone says.

Good man. Don't be led by the McCarthyist witch hunt tactics of the
left-wing fascists.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 29, 12:29*am, Bill Wright wrote:

In other words, if you go round labelling people as racist just because
you don't agree with their views on, say, immigration, you weaken the
case against real racists.

Yes, witness the comedy character "Ali G" and his catchphrase "Is it
because I is black?"...

Speaking to a young teenage over Christmas I've been made aware of the
confusion that has been foisted in the minds of some members of that age
group. "Am I allowed to say that?" was the quote that started the
discussion. That sort of apparently arbitrary prohibition of language
can only foster resentment.

I can't remember who the person was, but It was an American (possibly
a comedian, possibly Chris Rock or Louis CK) who was moaning about the
use of the phrase "African American" as a euphemism for Black. It *is*
absurd, as two big American celebrities - Dave Matthews and Charlize
Theron - are both genuinely African American, and both white. My niece
was once worried that by describing a black person as black, she might
be saying something upsetting. I asked her if she would be upset if a
black person described her as white. I hasten to add that it wasn't a
black person who gave her this idea.

I'm tired of this whole business. As soon as anyone tries to discuss
immigration, the threat from Muslim fundamentalism, or similar issues,
some little lefty idiot pops up and screams 'racist'. It's simply a way
to stifle debate. It is the fascism of the left.

This sort of thing, from the left or the right, relies on the non-
thinking bovine-like nature of the spouters. I always try to challenge
these types on how their views relate to American, French,
Scandinavian, or German workers in the UK.

That all sounds good to me. I wouldn't extend it to claim that an
English or British cultural mindset is automatically better than any
other though.

Indeed, it is just what I use as a benchmark as I am English, just as
my foreign friends (I'm not actually as dashingly international as I
sound here) use their home cultures as a benchmark.

But we should be allowed to enjoy our own culture.

Absolutely.

look around you this Christmas
 

.. I don't intend
searching anyone's history no matter what anyone says.

Ok

I note he posts
a lot more information and help here than I see from you ... so why
should I listen to you?

If its information about aerials you're after, Bill is indeed your man

phil

look around you this Christmas
 

Phil, I have no intention to offend you / get into a verbal scrap /

Good!

It's easy to focus on negatives, but it's satisfying to cultivate the
positives.

I didn't only focus on the negatives. See my comments on his Christmas post,
and his knowledge of the aerial business. Both positive.
Maybe 'extreme right wing' was pushing it a bit but I do remember earlier
this year finding some of his posts, if not repugnant, then sounding like an
embarrasing drunken old relative. The 'nasty' bit was supposed to be like
what some people (myself included) consider the Conservative Party to be.
By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views; it's just that, for some
reason, Bill's comments on race/religion make me cringe!

phil

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:

By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views; it's just that, for some
reason, Bill's comments on race/religion make me cringe!

phil

It's because they make you face the unpalatable truth.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 30, 12:42*am, "phil" wrote:

I didn't only focus on the negatives.

Ah yeah, I know, I just went off on a tangent. Sometime between
sitting down in front of the fire and opening the hooch.

By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views;

I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!

look around you this Christmas
 

David Paste wrote:

I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!

In the context of modern western politics the right tends to believe
that government should interfere with people's lives as little as
possible. That's the opposite of oppression.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
In the context of modern western politics the right tends to believe
that government should interfere with people's lives as little as
possible.

But, of course, complete ********. They just interfere in different ways.

That's the opposite of oppression.

It would be nice to know of any true right wing country where there isn't
oppression. Or perhaps you close your eyes when the TV news comes on?

--
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

look around you this Christmas
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
In the context of modern western politics the right tends to believe
that government should interfere with people's lives as little as
possible.

But, of course, complete ********. They just interfere in different ways.
Compare the old USSR with the USA. State interference with peoples lives?


That's the opposite of oppression.

It would be nice to know of any true right wing country where there isn't
oppression. Or perhaps you close your eyes when the TV news comes on?
Compare the old USSR with the USA. Oppression?

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

"David Paste" wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 12:42 am, "phil" wrote:

I didn't only focus on the negatives.

Ah yeah, I know, I just went off on a tangent. Sometime between
sitting down in front of the fire and opening the hooch.

By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views;

I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!

Agreed, and it makes me angry too, but I would defend their right to have
right wing views, even though I don't agree with the views.

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it,' was the quote I was thinking of.

phil

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it,' was the quote I was thinking of.

phil

So would you defend to the death Nick Griffin's right to say (were he to
say it) that black people were unwelcome in the UK?

So would you defend to the death Iranians who say that homosexuals
should be executed?

I thought not.

What tosh you talk.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 30, 1:46*pm, Bill Wright wrote:
David Paste wrote:
I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!

In the context of modern western politics the right tends to believe
that government should interfere with people's lives as little as
possible. That's the opposite of oppression.

Bill

I've seen that the right will always go for the cheapest option, and
damn the practicalities of the outcome, hence the church trying to get
involved with abortion issues, as they see it as a moral crusade, the
govt. are happy as it is cheap, and the person who matters - the woman
gets hassled. Not good.

Perhaps what you call 'the right' is what I might think of as
'libertarian'? I dunno. I think I know what you mean though - right as
in conservative, small government?

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 30, 5:59*pm, "phil" wrote:

Agreed, and it makes me angry too, but I would defend their right to have
right wing views, even though I don't agree with the views.

Well of course, but the real test comes when 'they' act on their views
- would anyone complain if I met their actions in an equal and
opposite way?

*'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it,' was the quote I was thinking of.

Ha ha! This has always made me laugh. I am more than happy for people
to have a view, and to express this view, but there's no f*cking way
I'd die for their right to do so! Mind you, I wouldn't expect anyone
to that for me either. I would be prepared to defend my own views
though.

look around you this Christmas
 

In article , phil
scribeth thus

"David Paste" wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 12:42 am, "phil" wrote:

I didn't only focus on the negatives.

Ah yeah, I know, I just went off on a tangent. Sometime between
sitting down in front of the fire and opening the hooch.

By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views;

I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!

Agreed, and it makes me angry too, but I would defend their right to have
right wing views, even though I don't agree with the views.

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to
say it,' was the quote I was thinking of.

I always thought the one below was the more accurate of human
nature;!....

phil



--
Tony Sayer

Although I may disagree with what you say..

I will defend to the death your right to hear me tell you how wrong you are.

look around you this Christmas
 

David Paste wrote:
On Dec 30, 1:46 pm, Bill Wright wrote:
David Paste wrote:
I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!
In the context of modern western politics the right tends to believe
that government should interfere with people's lives as little as
possible. That's the opposite of oppression.

Bill

I've seen that the right will always go for the cheapest option, and
damn the practicalities of the outcome, hence the church trying to get
involved with abortion issues, as they see it as a moral crusade, the
govt. are happy as it is cheap, and the person who matters - the woman
gets hassled. Not good.

Perhaps what you call 'the right' is what I might think of as
'libertarian'? I dunno. I think I know what you mean though - right as
in conservative, small government?
The labels 'right' and 'left' are not adequate to categorise all
political opinions. 'Right winger' and 'left winger' are not adequate to
categorise all people. Those who think for themselves are especially
likely to not fit into either category.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

In article , Bill Wright
scribeth thus
David Paste wrote:
On Dec 30, 1:46 pm, Bill Wright wrote:
David Paste wrote:
I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!
In the context of modern western politics the right tends to believe
that government should interfere with people's lives as little as
possible. That's the opposite of oppression.

Bill

I've seen that the right will always go for the cheapest option, and
damn the practicalities of the outcome, hence the church trying to get
involved with abortion issues, as they see it as a moral crusade, the
govt. are happy as it is cheap, and the person who matters - the woman
gets hassled. Not good.

Perhaps what you call 'the right' is what I might think of as
'libertarian'? I dunno. I think I know what you mean though - right as
in conservative, small government?
The labels 'right' and 'left' are not adequate to categorise all
political opinions. 'Right winger' and 'left winger' are not adequate to
categorise all people.


Those who think for themselves are especially
likely to not fit into either category.

Bill

An astute observation Bill....

--
Tony Sayer

look around you this Christmas
 

An astute observation Bill....


Oy. I do those.


--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 30, 10:47*pm, Bill Wright wrote:

The labels 'right' and 'left' are not adequate to categorise all
political opinions. 'Right winger' and 'left winger' are not adequate to
categorise all people.

Yup, but sadly the commoditization of opinion requires pithy 'brands'
so people can be manipul... errr, I mean identify with their fellow
sheep. No! People. I mean unique individuals, definitely not sheep, or
anything implying each persons absolute specialness is a 21st century
interpretation of bread & circuses (coz 'istory dunt matter, innit).

Those who think for themselves are especially
likely to not fit into either category.

Indeed. (Prop. "Wrightwingers"?)

look around you this Christmas
 

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
It would be nice to know of any true right wing country where there
isn't oppression. Or perhaps you close your eyes when the TV news
comes on?
Compare the old USSR with the USA. Oppression?

How far back do you wish to go? Blacks and native americans never suffered
oppression in the US of A? And still don't?

The US is a fine place to live provided you are in work in a decent job.
If not, it's probably the worst of all the developed countries.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:10:19 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

But, of course, complete ********. They just interfere in different ways.
Compare the old USSR with the USA. State interference with peoples lives?

That's just so untrue it's funny.

look around you this Christmas
 

On Friday, December 30th, 2011, at 22:47:19h +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

The labels 'right' and 'left' are not adequate to categorise all
political opinions.

10/10 !!!

A better analysis is the 2 dimensional system of authoritarian
versus libertarian and economic left (command state owned economy)
versus economic right (total laissez faire capitalism).

Take a look at

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010

and you will see that both the BNP and Liberal Democrats
are economically to the left of FauX LaboUr.

What is so bad is that FauX LaboUR is more authoritarian
than either the Conservative and Unionist Party and UKIP,
and that apart from the Liberal Democrats, Greens, and SDLP
the tendency is for parties to be significantly authoritarian.

I would suggest a third dimension, which breaks the authoritarian
versus libertarian category into the social rights and political
rights categories gives an even better, more meaningful analysis
as seen at

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Updated_NS_Graph.png

'Right winger' and 'left winger' are not adequate to
categorise all people.

When you have time, why not take the test at political compasss and
report back your score -- I think it would surprise quite a few on
this group.

http://www.politicalcompass.ORG/test

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J G Miller wrote:

'Right winger' and 'left winger' are not adequate to
categorise all people.

When you have time, why not take the test at political compasss and
report back your score -- I think it would surprise quite a few on
this group.

http://www.politicalcompass.ORG/test

That's really interesting.

Here's mine:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11023364/compass.jpg

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

Bill Wright wrote...

Here's mine:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11023364/compass.jpg

Up against the wall you Thatcherite swine. Er, I mean, come now
brother William; you must reconsider.

?A man is but the product of his thoughts; what he thinks, he becomes.?

http://goo.gl/4vNla

--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

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On Jan 3, 11:38*pm, UnsteadyKen wrote:
*Bill Wright wrote...
Here's mine:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11023364/compass.jpg

*Up against the wall you Thatcherite swine. Er, I mean, come now
brother William; you must reconsider.

?A man is but the product of his thoughts; what he thinks, he becomes.?

http://goo.gl/4vNla


Here's mine:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/prin...7.00&soc=-3.33

Come on Ken, let's get him!

look around you this Christmas
 

UnsteadyKen wrote:
Bill Wright wrote...

Here's mine:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11023364/compass.jpg

Up against the wall you Thatcherite swine. Er, I mean, come now
brother William; you must reconsider.

?A man is but the product of his thoughts; what he thinks, he becomes.?

http://goo.gl/4vNla


I wish I were as libertarian as you. I think it was the toilet training
that did the damage...

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012, at 23:13:09h +0000, Bill Wright wrote:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11023364/compass.jpg

which rates 1.00 / -1.59 and is really quite a centrist
position on both scale.

I am quite surprised that you did not score more highly
libertarian and significantly more to the right economically.

What is clear though is that you are nowhere close to the
location of UKIP or even the BNP.

As you might have suspected, economically I came out well
to the left at -7.12, but I actually scored more libertarian
than you at -2.00, even though on a number of social issues
I would be described as "extremely conservative".

Shame on you for not using Firefox though! ;+)