look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 28, 9:12*pm, "phil" wrote:
You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I applaud
him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and religion
earlier this year, and indeed in the thread 'TOT Political correctness gone
mad (as they say)', you'll see that he has nasty extreme right wing views..

Phil, I have no intention to offend you / get into a verbal scrap /
other unpleasantness, but if you think that Bill shows "nasty extreme
right wing views", I have to question this. I would plead with you to
go and talk to some victims of real "nasty extreme right wing views"
and see how they suffer from them, and how the mis-attribution of
labels to opinions you personally find contemptible doesn't really
help anyone, but can actually back-fire and cause (albeit inadvertent
and unintentional) suffering to those you wish to show solidarity (or
whatever your intention may be) towards.

Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

I haven't really considered Bill to be racist, certainly I've never
read anything he's written to make me think so. I do, however,
consider him to be culturalist, but then again, who isn't? Anyone who
claims not to be is either a liar, simple, or weak. I am culturalist -
hugely so - but that doesn't detract from my (limited) tolerance of
others (of anyone, not limited to any particular metric), and my
endeavours to contribute to society in positive ways. I strive to be
English, to live my life in an English way, which to me means seeking
out the best in others and encouraging this and perhaps taking on
various positive aspects in my life.

It's easy to focus on negatives, but it's satisfying to cultivate the
positives.

Cheers.

(Christ, re-reading that, it makes me sound like a right old hippy-
dippy space-case. I'm not, but I do like their positivity!)

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:

You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I
applaud him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and
religion earlier this year .....

I'm new 'here' and all I've seen so far has been good. I don't intend
searching anyone's history no matter what anyone says. I note he posts
a lot more information and help here than I see from you ... so why
should I listen to you?

Not that it matters, I take people as I find them, not how others want
me to see them.

--
Paul - xxx
"You know, all I wanna do is race .. and all I wanna do is win"
Mark Cavendish, World Champion 2011
BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2011

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:
You're a good man, Bill.

He genuinely comes across as very good indeed in this thread and I applaud
him for it, however if you check out his rantings on race and religion
earlier this year, and indeed in the thread 'TOT Political correctness gone
mad (as they say)', you'll see that he has nasty extreme right wing views.
It seems that most people on here quite rightly, have respect for his
undoubted knowledge and experience in the aerial business, but tire of his
political views. Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

phil

This post is typical of left wing fascism. The writer cannot see beyond
his dislike of my views (as he perceives them).

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

David Paste wrote:

Phil, I have no intention to offend you / get into a verbal scrap /
other unpleasantness, but if you think that Bill shows "nasty extreme
right wing views", I have to question this. I would plead with you to
go and talk to some victims of real "nasty extreme right wing views"
and see how they suffer from them, and how the mis-attribution of
labels to opinions you personally find contemptible doesn't really
help anyone, but can actually back-fire and cause (albeit inadvertent
and unintentional) suffering to those you wish to show solidarity (or
whatever your intention may be) towards.
In other words, if you go round labelling people as racist just because
you don't agree with their views on, say, immigration, you weaken the
case against real racists. You cause people to think, 'oh, well if
that's racism then I'm a racist'. And although you might like to think
that these people will then alter their views to suit you, because they
don't want to think of themselves as racist, luckily most people have
enough independence of mind to resist that.

It's also the case that screaming 'racist' without justification causes
anger and embarrassment to people in racial minorities. It is actually
very patronising.

Speaking to a young teenage over Christmas I've been made aware of the
confusion that has been foisted in the minds of some members of that age
group. "Am I allowed to say that?" was the quote that started the
discussion. That sort of apparently arbitrary prohibition of language
can only foster resentment.


Thankfully, he's been quiet on the ' I'm not racist,
but....' front lately.

I haven't really considered Bill to be racist, certainly I've never
read anything he's written to make me think so.
I'm tired of this whole business. As soon as anyone tries to discuss
immigration, the threat from Muslim fundamentalism, or similar issues,
some little lefty idiot pops up and screams 'racist'. It's simply a way
to stifle debate. It is the fascism of the left.

I do, however,
consider him to be culturalist, but then again, who isn't? Anyone who
claims not to be is either a liar, simple, or weak. I am culturalist -
hugely so - but that doesn't detract from my (limited) tolerance of
others (of anyone, not limited to any particular metric), and my
endeavours to contribute to society in positive ways. I strive to be
English, to live my life in an English way, which to me means seeking
out the best in others and encouraging this and perhaps taking on
various positive aspects in my life.
That all sounds good to me. I wouldn't extend it to claim that an
English or British cultural mindset is automatically better than any
other though. But we should be allowed to enjoy our own culture.

Anyway, an interesting post David.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

Paul - xxx wrote:

I'm new 'here' and all I've seen so far has been good. I don't intend
searching anyone's history no matter what anyone says.

Good man. Don't be led by the McCarthyist witch hunt tactics of the
left-wing fascists.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 29, 12:29*am, Bill Wright wrote:

In other words, if you go round labelling people as racist just because
you don't agree with their views on, say, immigration, you weaken the
case against real racists.

Yes, witness the comedy character "Ali G" and his catchphrase "Is it
because I is black?"...

Speaking to a young teenage over Christmas I've been made aware of the
confusion that has been foisted in the minds of some members of that age
group. "Am I allowed to say that?" was the quote that started the
discussion. That sort of apparently arbitrary prohibition of language
can only foster resentment.

I can't remember who the person was, but It was an American (possibly
a comedian, possibly Chris Rock or Louis CK) who was moaning about the
use of the phrase "African American" as a euphemism for Black. It *is*
absurd, as two big American celebrities - Dave Matthews and Charlize
Theron - are both genuinely African American, and both white. My niece
was once worried that by describing a black person as black, she might
be saying something upsetting. I asked her if she would be upset if a
black person described her as white. I hasten to add that it wasn't a
black person who gave her this idea.

I'm tired of this whole business. As soon as anyone tries to discuss
immigration, the threat from Muslim fundamentalism, or similar issues,
some little lefty idiot pops up and screams 'racist'. It's simply a way
to stifle debate. It is the fascism of the left.

This sort of thing, from the left or the right, relies on the non-
thinking bovine-like nature of the spouters. I always try to challenge
these types on how their views relate to American, French,
Scandinavian, or German workers in the UK.

That all sounds good to me. I wouldn't extend it to claim that an
English or British cultural mindset is automatically better than any
other though.

Indeed, it is just what I use as a benchmark as I am English, just as
my foreign friends (I'm not actually as dashingly international as I
sound here) use their home cultures as a benchmark.

But we should be allowed to enjoy our own culture.

Absolutely.

look around you this Christmas
 

.. I don't intend
searching anyone's history no matter what anyone says.

Ok

I note he posts
a lot more information and help here than I see from you ... so why
should I listen to you?

If its information about aerials you're after, Bill is indeed your man

phil

look around you this Christmas
 

Phil, I have no intention to offend you / get into a verbal scrap /

Good!

It's easy to focus on negatives, but it's satisfying to cultivate the
positives.

I didn't only focus on the negatives. See my comments on his Christmas post,
and his knowledge of the aerial business. Both positive.
Maybe 'extreme right wing' was pushing it a bit but I do remember earlier
this year finding some of his posts, if not repugnant, then sounding like an
embarrasing drunken old relative. The 'nasty' bit was supposed to be like
what some people (myself included) consider the Conservative Party to be.
By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views; it's just that, for some
reason, Bill's comments on race/religion make me cringe!

phil

look around you this Christmas
 

phil wrote:

By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views; it's just that, for some
reason, Bill's comments on race/religion make me cringe!

phil

It's because they make you face the unpalatable truth.

Bill

look around you this Christmas
 

On Dec 30, 12:42*am, "phil" wrote:

I didn't only focus on the negatives.

Ah yeah, I know, I just went off on a tangent. Sometime between
sitting down in front of the fire and opening the hooch.

By the way, although I hardly ever agree with them, I don't have any
problems with people who have right wing views;

I very often do. In my experience, right-winginess goes hand-in-hand
with some form of oppression. Makes me angry!