DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Is there a point to this, especially as the new arrangement only lasts for
two weeks?

Is there some reason why the new high-powered Mux can't simply occupy the
space left vacant by BBC2 analogue?

(kim)

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

"kim" wrote in message
...
Is there a point to this, especially as the new arrangement only lasts for
two weeks?

Is there some reason why the new high-powered Mux can't simply occupy the
space left vacant by BBC2 analogue?

I think it's supposed to give people who haven't done anything a chance to
get new equipment before they lose analogue altogether.

--
Max Demian

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Max Demian wrote:
I think it's supposed to give people who haven't done anything a
chance to get new equipment before they lose analogue altogether.

But they could still do that if ITV1 stayed where it was.

(kim)

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

kim wrote:
Is there a point to this, especially as the new arrangement only lasts for
two weeks?

Is there some reason why the new high-powered Mux can't simply occupy the
space left vacant by BBC2 analogue?

It depends what allocation the post DSO PSB mux has been given, and whether or
not that happens to be where BBC2 analogue is, as well as all the other
considerations of trying to not cause interference during the whole DSO
process. Also PSB 1 is allocated a position where it will have maximum
coverage, that may not necessarily be where BBC 2 currently is.

In some cases, Oxford and Crystal Palace for example, BBC 2 analogue occupies
allocations that Ofcom are selling off, Ch 63 and 33 respectively, so there
will be similar swaps there, (C4 at Oxford, ITV at CP)

These swaps have been very poorly publicised, and not really properly
explained at all, but there you go, add it to the list of DUK mis-management.
I'm surprised that DUK pink van isn't sporting a riot shield on its windscreen
yet ;-).

I've done some quick totting up, at the following sites ITV has done/will move
to BBC 2's allocation for the two weeks:-

Angus
Beacon Hill
Carmel
Crystal P
Emley
Mendip
Presely
Sutton Coldfield
Wenvoe

At these sites it's BBC 1:-

Belmont
Dover
Llanddona
Pontop

And at Oxford it will be C4

All the other main stations BBC 2's old allocation is used straight away for
PSB A.



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Mark Carver wrote:
It depends what allocation the post DSO PSB mux has been given, and
whether or not that happens to be where BBC2 analogue is, as well as
all the other considerations of trying to not cause interference
during the whole DSO process. Also PSB 1 is allocated a position
where it will have maximum coverage, that may not necessarily be
where BBC 2 currently is.

I can't speak for other regions but BBC2 from Sutton Coldfield previously
had the best coverage of the local UHF group being on the lowest frequency
(although the difference between BBC2 and ITV was marginal) so I have to
assume the shift is related to interference in another area.

(kim)

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

On Sep 10, 3:55*pm, "kim" wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:
It depends what allocation the post DSO PSB mux has been given, and
whether or not that happens to be where BBC2 analogue is, as well as
all the other considerations of trying to not cause interference
during the whole DSO process. Also PSB 1 is allocated a position
where it will have maximum coverage, that may not necessarily be
where BBC 2 currently is.

I can't speak for other regions but BBC2 from Sutton Coldfield previously
had the best coverage of the local UHF group being on the lowest frequency
(although the difference between BBC2 and ITV was marginal) so I have to
assume the shift is related to interference in another area.

It may be tied up with the fact that until relatively recently Ch 40
(and 39) were to be sold off.
Ofcom as part of the EU wide '4G LTE' scheme have swapped round the
flogging
off, so now 39 and 40 are being retained, and 61 and 62 ditched. (This
spells more retunes before
2013 at Waltham and Mendip, (and many more)).

It could be that plans were too advanced not to use Ch 40 at SC for
BBC A ?

By the way, I'm currently in SC-land myself, in Leamington Spa.
Interesting
behaviour from a Sony TV (same chassis as Bob Latham's AFAIK).

Here SC is the main Tx being used, but a very strong signal is also
available from the Leamington relay.

I ran a full rescan, and SC's BBC A channels were all correctly placed
on primary LCNs.
The Mux B duplicates are all at 800+ (as expected) but it *totally*
ignored BBC A from Leamington (UHF Ch 59).
If I manually tune to it, it sees all the channels, and asks me what
to do with them.

However, left to its own devices, it totally ignores the relay station
(which is a Good Thing !)

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Mark Carver wrote:

I'm currently in SC-land myself, in Leamington Spa.

How's Belmont?!

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Mark Carver wrote:

I ran a full rescan, and SC's BBC A channels were all correctly placed
on primary LCNs.
The Mux B duplicates are all at 800+ (as expected) but it *totally*
ignored BBC A from Leamington (UHF Ch 59).
If I manually tune to it, it sees all the channels, and asks me what
to do with them.

The whole thing seems to be very complicated, with different models from
the same manufacturer behaving differently. I wonder why there is such a
lack of standardisation?

Bill

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

On Sep 11, 6:28*pm, Andy Burns wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:
I'm currently in SC-land myself, in Leamington Spa.

How's Belmont?!

Nothing there.

I was also surprised not to get anything sensible from Lark Stoke, pre
DSO there was
a mangled analogue signal co-ch with The Wrekin. I suspect the SFN DTT
signals
are destroying each other because the signals are beyond the Guard
Intervals at this location ?

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

brightside S9 wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2011 09:52:42 -0700 (PDT), Mark Carver
wrote:


It may be tied up with the fact that until relatively recently Ch 40
(and 39) were to be sold off.
Ofcom as part of the EU wide '4G LTE' scheme have swapped round the
flogging
off, so now 39 and 40 are being retained, and 61 and 62 ditched. (This
spells more retunes before


So that means a retune for Winter Hill at some time?

Yep !


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

I've come to the conclusion the main reason this is being done is that some
people might not even notice BBC2 is missing so by moving ITV to where ITV
used to be they can hardly fail to notice!

A TV salesman friend tells me he's taking the next few days off wotk so as
not to be inundated with calls from angry customers :o)

(kim)

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

On Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 at 16:17:44h +0100, Kim wrote:

I've come to the conclusion the main reason this is being done is that
some people might not even notice BBC2 is missing so by moving ITV to
where ITV used to be they can hardly fail to notice!

Except that you are forgetting in most regions this was never done,
and in North West England, Scotland, and Wales, where it was not done,
analog switch off with the transition of the digital refuseniks went
fairly smoothly.

What evidence do you have that a significant number of people
in the West Midlands never watch BBC-2?

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 at 16:17:44h +0100, Kim wrote:

I've come to the conclusion the main reason this is being done is
that some people might not even notice BBC2 is missing so by moving
ITV to where ITV used to be they can hardly fail to notice!

Except that you are forgetting in most regions this was never done,
and in North West England, Scotland, and Wales, where it was not done,
analog switch off with the transition of the digital refuseniks went
fairly smoothly.

What evidence do you have that a significant number of people
in the West Midlands never watch BBC-2?

You mean apart from it's ever decreasing audience share?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...nce-share-2010

I've met people in Coventry who never watch anything other that ITV!

(kim)

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

On Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 at 19:30:34h +0100, Kim wrote:

You mean apart from it's ever decreasing audience share?

The problem with BBC-2 is that all of its good programs underwent
internal exile to the BBC-4 gulag and anything that becomes too
"popular" is "promoted" to the new ITV, BBC-1.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...nce-share-2010

Thanks for the link.

I've met people in Coventry who never watch anything other that ITV!

I can believe that and I did once encounter a Londoner who had an
aversion to BBC-2 back in the days of BBC-1 + BBC-2 + THAMES/LWT only.

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 at 19:30:34h +0100, Kim wrote:

You mean apart from it's ever decreasing audience share?

The problem with BBC-2 is that all of its good programs underwent
internal exile to the BBC-4 gulag and anything that becomes too
"popular" is "promoted" to the new ITV, BBC-1.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...nce-share-2010

Thanks for the link.

I've met people in Coventry who never watch anything other that ITV!

I can believe that and I did once encounter a Londoner who had an
aversion to BBC-2 back in the days of BBC-1 + BBC-2 + THAMES/LWT only.
In the late 50s the absence of an ITV aerial was a status symbol for a
certain sort of person.

Bill

BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

On Wednesday, September 21st, 2011 at 00:56:29h +0100, Bill Wright explained:

In the late 50s the absence of an ITV aerial was a status symbol for a
certain sort of person.

Indeed so.

Was there any correlation between these people and people who
regarded having a "BBC-2 aerial" in the mid 1960s as a status symbol?

Furthermore, in the late 1990s, the absence of a satellite dish was a status
symbol for a certain sort of person.

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Mark Carver wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Mark Carver wrote:

I'm currently in SC-land myself, in Leamington Spa.

How's Belmont?!

Nothing there.

I wonder where it runs out? I've picked up an attenator to rid myself of
Belmont and Sutton (P/N 86483 is cheap and handy to recommend to friends
if they have a Toolstation nearby, also P/N 38324 if they're unlikely to
have a stash of 'F' connectors).

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/TV+Satellite/Variable+Attenuator+120+dB/d190/sd3084/p86843

I liked your comment "It's only the TV, not a life support device", that
thread really sums up DigiSpy nowadays, I don't know how anyone could be
unaware DSO was happening.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?s=cf4e53cdab19b1c5ff0984a77741be54& t=1538282

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

In message , Andy
Burns writes
Mark Carver wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Mark Carver wrote:

I'm currently in SC-land myself, in Leamington Spa.

How's Belmont?!

Nothing there.

I wonder where it runs out? I've picked up an attenator to rid myself
of Belmont and Sutton (P/N 86483 is cheap and handy to recommend to
friends if they have a Toolstation nearby, also P/N 38324 if they're
unlikely to have a stash of 'F' connectors).

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Elec...ariable+Attenu
ator+120+dB/d190/sd3084/p86843

I liked your comment "It's only the TV, not a life support device",
that thread really sums up DigiSpy nowadays, I don't know how anyone
could be unaware DSO was happening.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...b19b1c5ff0984a
77741be54&t=1538282

I like this posting:

"The on-screen pop up should have said
Quote:
'Freeview reception is liable to interruptions tonight.
If you have lost channels after 6am Wednesday 21st September, please
retune your Freeview set top box or TV'.
This would have made it clearer to more people - although there will
always be those who manage to know nothing about the switchover."

An alternative message could have been "If you can't see this message,
please retune your Freeview set top box or TV after 6am on Wednesday
21st September".
--
Ian

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message ...
In message ,
Andy Burns writes
Mark Carver wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Mark Carver wrote:

I'm currently in SC-land myself, in Leamington Spa.

How's Belmont?!

Nothing there.

I wonder where it runs out? I've picked up an attenator to rid
myself of Belmont and Sutton (P/N 86483 is cheap and handy to
recommend to friends if they have a Toolstation nearby, also
P/N 38324 if they're unlikely to have a stash of 'F'
connectors).

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Elec...ariable+Attenu
ator+120+dB/d190/sd3084/p86843

I liked your comment "It's only the TV, not a life support
device", that thread really sums up DigiSpy nowadays, I don't
know how anyone could be unaware DSO was happening.

http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...b19b1c5ff0984a
77741be54&t=1538282

I like this posting:

"The on-screen pop up should have said
Quote:
'Freeview reception is liable to interruptions tonight.
If you have lost channels after 6am Wednesday 21st September,
please retune your Freeview set top box or TV'.
This would have made it clearer to more people - although there
will always be those who manage to know nothing about the
switchover."

An alternative message could have been "If you can't see this
message, please retune your Freeview set top box or TV after
6am on Wednesday 21st September".
--


Very good example.

My wife's elderly aunt had a visit from the Helpscheme yesterday
to get her Freeview working. On their first visit a few months
ago they could not get reliable reception from Emley so they said
they would come back after DSO 'when the signal would be
stronger.' Sure enough it would still not work, so the tech got
his ladder out and climbed up to the aerial to look at a box
close to the wall mount.

He discovered that it was just a link-through installed by
another fitter. So what did he do? He took the ladder down and
installed a set-back amp!! Can you believe it?

He left with it working (my wife was there to confirm it) but
gave no other instruction. What happens? Later yesterday a box
comes up on screen telling you to retune - so aunt presses OK,
retunes the box, and now it won't get anything as it found a
nearer station with unusable signal but enough to make the box
log it.

We rang the Helpline last night and their response was that they
would talk aunt through it - this to an 85-year old with
psychiatric problems! The only option is for me to visit, fix it,
and give the necessary instruction.

Beggars belief!


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

Woody wrote:

He left with it working (my wife was there to confirm it) but
gave no other instruction. What happens? Later yesterday a box
comes up on screen telling you to retune - so aunt presses OK,
retunes the box, and now it won't get anything as it found a
nearer station with unusable signal but enough to make the box
log it.

We rang the Helpline last night and their response was that they
would talk aunt through it - this to an 85-year old with
psychiatric problems! The only option is for me to visit, fix it,
and give the necessary instruction.

Beggars belief!


We've had quite a few like that Woody.

Bill

DSO: BBC2/ITV analogue channel swap?
 

On Thursday, September 22nd, 2011 at 04:48:32h +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

I liked your comment "It's only the TV, not a life support device", that
thread really sums up DigiSpy nowadays, I don't know how anyone could be
unaware DSO was happening.

There has just been a posting in the related newsgroup uk.tech.broadcast
from somebody who claims to have an MSc and have years of experience with
"RF TX & RX" and was not aware that DSO was currently underway for
Sutton Coldfield.

So does that posting really sum up the newsgroup uk.tech.broadcast nowadays?