BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same day
as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

The channel, which has been on air for more than two years, was originally
only available on satellite. However it became available on cable last week.

The move will impact on Freeview coverage of BBC radio channels.

Due to a lack of bandwidth, many of the corporation's radio stations will go
off air when BBC Alba is broadcasting - but not 1 Extra, 5 Live and 6 Music.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

Odd choice of retentions, I'd have thought 4 4 extra should be on there
given the strange coverage of other modes in the area.
Mind you is this some form of political decision?

So, when do we get BBC Estuary, guv... Oh sorry we already have that in BBC
1

Brian

--
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Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Vic" wrote in message ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same
day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

The channel, which has been on air for more than two years, was originally
only available on satellite. However it became available on cable last
week.

The move will impact on Freeview coverage of BBC radio channels.

Due to a lack of bandwidth, many of the corporation's radio stations will
go off air when BBC Alba is broadcasting - but not 1 Extra, 5 Live and 6
Music.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same day
as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are no
monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 07:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
Odd choice of retentions, I'd have thought 4 4 extra should be on there
given the strange coverage of other modes in the area.
Mind you is this some form of political decision?

I'm taking a guess that gaelic speakers are amongst the richer and more
influential end of the population.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article ,
Silk wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same
day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are no
monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.


perhaps the idea of the channel is to rectify the situation.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article ,
Silk wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
Odd choice of retentions, I'd have thought 4 4 extra should be on there
given the strange coverage of other modes in the area.
Mind you is this some form of political decision?

I'm taking a guess that gaelic speakers are amongst the richer and more
influential end of the population.

funnily enough, I suspect the exact opppsite.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

charles wrote:
In article ,
Silk wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same
day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are no
monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.


perhaps the idea of the channel is to rectify the situation.

I think David Mitchell summed up my views on the subject pretty well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvlQX...e_gdata_player

Tim

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , Silk wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the
same day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are
no monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.

So far as I can find out, it is an entirely 'political' decision where the
BBC Trust was manouvered into a position of feeling they could be branded
'anti Scottish' by a lobby group if they didn't act as they have.

If you look at the 'evidence' in their own published documents it is
clearly not representitive of the general population of Scotland.

It reminds me of the old Tony Hancock line in the Blood Donor where
the Dr says "We're not all Rob Roys, you know!".

And so far as I can tell, no-one involved in BBC radio or TV [1] thinks it
makes much sense. Even one of the presenters on Radio Scotland this morning
was plainly puzzled/unhappy about it. But for obvious reasons they are
unlikely to be too critical on-air.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Apart from those at Alba TV, I assume!

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Silk wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the
same day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are
no monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.

So far as I can find out, it is an entirely 'political' decision where the
BBC Trust was manouvered into a position of feeling they could be branded
'anti Scottish' by a lobby group if they didn't act as they have.

If you look at the 'evidence' in their own published documents it is
clearly not representitive of the general population of Scotland.

It reminds me of the old Tony Hancock line in the Blood Donor where
the Dr says "We're not all Rob Roys, you know!".

And so far as I can tell, no-one involved in BBC radio or TV [1] thinks it
makes much sense. Even one of the presenters on Radio Scotland this
morning
was plainly puzzled/unhappy about it. But for obvious reasons they are
unlikely to be too critical on-air.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Apart from those at Alba TV, I assume!

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


Living in Edinburgh, where no one speaks Gaelic, I am cross that I will not
be able to listen to high quality digital Radio 3 in the evenings. Digging
out the FM tuner as we speak.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

"Geoff Pearson" wrote in message
...

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Silk wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the
same day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill
transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are
no monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.

So far as I can find out, it is an entirely 'political' decision where
the
BBC Trust was manouvered into a position of feeling they could be branded
'anti Scottish' by a lobby group if they didn't act as they have.

If you look at the 'evidence' in their own published documents it is
clearly not representitive of the general population of Scotland.

It reminds me of the old Tony Hancock line in the Blood Donor where
the Dr says "We're not all Rob Roys, you know!".

And so far as I can tell, no-one involved in BBC radio or TV [1] thinks
it
makes much sense. Even one of the presenters on Radio Scotland this
morning
was plainly puzzled/unhappy about it. But for obvious reasons they are
unlikely to be too critical on-air.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Apart from those at Alba TV, I assume!

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html


Living in Edinburgh, where no one speaks Gaelic, I am cross that I will
not be able to listen to high quality digital Radio 3 in the evenings.
Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

Actually the FM tuner (Technics ST 610L) sounds distinctly better than TDT -
so this is a step forward (by going back).

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 08:34, charles wrote:
In ,
wrote:

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are no
monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.


perhaps the idea of the channel is to rectify the situation.

Has S4C had a positive effect for the Welsh language. AIUI its audience
figures for Welsh programming have fallen in line with the availability
of C4-UK in Wales, which does rather indicate they were high in the
'analogue only' days, as lots of punters had S4C Welsh programming on
because 'up next' was something from C4 in English ?

Since DSO completed in Wales last March, S4C only carries Welsh language
programmes.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 13:03, Geoff Pearson wrote:


Living in Edinburgh, where no one speaks Gaelic, I am cross that I
will not be able to listen to high quality digital Radio 3 in the
evenings. Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

Actually the FM tuner (Technics ST 610L) sounds distinctly better than
TDT - so this is a step forward (by going back).

Some have said, that the 320 kb/s 'HD Audio' stream of Radio 3 via BBCi
provides the best quaility,

http://www.pjf.org.uk/blog/current-a...-audio-online/

However, at a data rate of 144 MB/Hr you'd need a rather high data cap
from your ISP to take regular advantage of it !

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , Geoff Pearson
wrote:


Living in Edinburgh, where no one speaks Gaelic, I am cross that I
will not be able to listen to high quality digital Radio 3 in the
evenings. Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

Actually the FM tuner (Technics ST 610L) sounds distinctly better than
TDT - so this is a step forward (by going back).

Nevertheless, I'd suggest writing to Feedback, etc, to complain about this,
if only for the sake of those who can't get decent FM reception, etc.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , Mark Carver
wrote:
On 23/05/2011 13:03, Geoff Pearson wrote:


Living in Edinburgh, where no one speaks Gaelic, I am cross that I
will not be able to listen to high quality digital Radio 3 in the
evenings. Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

Actually the FM tuner (Technics ST 610L) sounds distinctly better than
TDT - so this is a step forward (by going back).

Some have said, that the 320 kb/s 'HD Audio' stream of Radio 3 via BBCi
provides the best quaility,

I'd personally agree with that. However my real concern is for people for
whom options like the iPlayer or FM are either impractical or cost them
extra money. FWIW One of the reasons I did an assessment of the
distribution of VHF and DAB TXs in January was to help people see how
patchy the coverage of these may be in some parts of Scotland. And I do
wonder what kind of Broadband provision there may be in some of the more
rural areas.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 13:14:03h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

Since DSO completed in Wales last March, S4C only carries Welsh language
programmes.

This statement is factually incorrect.

S4C carries over night programming in English on Fridays through Sunday,
and also on weeknights when the Cymraeg Parliament is in recess.

http://www.s4c.co.UK/e_press_level2.shtml?id=465

http://www.bbc.co.UK/news/uk-wales-12354075

Furthermore all (as far as I am aware) of the commercials it broadcasts
are also in English only.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Mon, 23 May 2011 12:39:07 +0100, Geoff Pearson wrote:

I am cross that I will not be able to listen to high quality digital
Radio 3 in the evenings. Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

The high quality digital Radio 3 is only available as an Internet stream.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

"J G Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2011 12:39:07 +0100, Geoff Pearson wrote:

I am cross that I will not be able to listen to high quality digital
Radio 3 in the evenings. Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

The high quality digital Radio 3 is only available as an Internet stream.


It is 192k on DTV - most of the time. However, I've also noticed today that
FM sounds more "stereo" than the DTV or DAB as well as a clearer, rounder
sound.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 8:34 AM, charles wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same
day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are no
monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.


perhaps the idea of the channel is to rectify the situation.


to what end? - to preserve their culture?
i can't help that feel that if you don't speak it, and nobody you know
speaks it, it's not really part of your culture at all - it would be
like trying to teach black kids in england to speak an african dialect -
politically correct perhaps but not useful in any way.

--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 08:34, charles wrote:
In ,
wrote:
On 23/05/2011 07:49, Vic wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same
day as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

I'm not really sure who the BBC are trying to pander to here. I wonder
what the ratings are for this channel, considering the vast majority of
Scottish people can't speak a word of gaelic and have no wish to. At
last count, it was less than 60,000 people who had some knowledge of the
language but not necessarily fluent. The important thing is there are no
monoglot gaelic speakers, so it's completely unnecessary.


perhaps the idea of the channel is to rectify the situation.

For what purpose?

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Mon, 23 May 2011 07:49:16 +0100, "Vic" wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-13479551

The Gaelic channel will be on Freeview Channel 8 from 8 June - the same day
as the digital switchover begins at the Blackhill transmitter.

The channel, which has been on air for more than two years, was originally
only available on satellite. However it became available on cable last week.

The move will impact on Freeview coverage of BBC radio channels.

Due to a lack of bandwidth, many of the corporation's radio stations will go
off air when BBC Alba is broadcasting - but not 1 Extra, 5 Live and 6 Music.

Why are BBC radio stations being taken off air? Why not the red
button stuff? As I see it, BBC radio stations are core services but
the red button stuff is not.

Before anyone points out this is Freeview (with the emphasis on the
'view') and radio services are available on other platforms, coverage
of Freeview is far superior to DAB in the Highlands. Though I do not
live in the HiIghlands and cannot speak from personal experience I
believe the some people get better TV reception than FM radio.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 13:14:03h +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

Since DSO completed in Wales last March, S4C only carries Welsh language
programmes.

This statement is factually incorrect.

S4C carries over night programming in English on Fridays through Sunday,
and also on weeknights when the Cymraeg Parliament is in recess.

http://www.s4c.co.UK/e_press_level2.shtml?id=465

Well well well,

http://www.bbc.co.UK/news/uk-wales-12354075

Furthermore all (as far as I am aware) of the commercials it broadcasts
are also in English only.

Yea, but commercials are not programmes in my book.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 21:06:25 +0100, Mark Carver espoused:

Yea, but commercials are not programmes in my book.

Even if they are 28 minutes and 30 seconds infomercials? ;)

QUOTE

According to tapebeat.com, over $150 billion of consumer
products in the US are sold through infomercials.

UNQUOTE

A review of the worst at

http://www.infomercial-hell.COM/

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , Scott
wrote:


Why are BBC radio stations being taken off air? Why not the red button
stuff? As I see it, BBC radio stations are core services but the red
button stuff is not.

I'd agree.

It is also my personal view that there would been a more logical argument
for removing the Parliament channel in the evenings since it can be argued
that the situation is different in Scotland. There were various alternative
to removing so many radio channels. None were really ideal, and the
decision to let Alba displace something else was made on the basis of
rather dubious evidence. But if it is deemed necessary, the sacrifice seems
a very bad choice to me.


It is hard to devine the thinking of the suits that made this
proposal/decision. But I do wonder if this is just a reflection of some at
the BBC who regard 'TV' as being more important than mere sound radio.

No doubt some would also say, "but radio is also on VHF, DAB, etc",
however...

Before anyone points out this is Freeview (with the emphasis on the
'view') and radio services are available on other platforms, coverage of
Freeview is far superior to DAB in the Highlands.

....that is also what I think may well be the case.

Though I do not live in the HiIghlands and cannot speak from personal
experience I believe the some people get better TV reception than FM
radio.

I'd agree again. Indeed, that was why at the start of the year I tried to
produce comparable maps of TX powers and locations. The snag was that
no-one could provide me with the data for Freeview. Not even OfCom, which
is crazy when you think about it!

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , Geoff Pearson
wrote:

"J G Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2011 12:39:07 +0100, Geoff Pearson wrote:

I am cross that I will not be able to listen to high quality digital
Radio 3 in the evenings. Digging out the FM tuner as we speak.

The high quality digital Radio 3 is only available as an Internet
stream.


It is 192k on DTV - most of the time. However, I've also noticed today
that FM sounds more "stereo" than the DTV or DAB as well as a clearer,
rounder sound.

There are various possible reasons for that. Even in labbench measurements
VHF tuners tend to have lower channel separation and higher distortion for
the difference signal, for example. And in use may often be affected by
multipath. The higher levels of applied level compression on R3 also make
an audible difference.

Personally, even when using a CT7000 for FM, I tended to find the DTV much
clearer and more natural. ppp sections of music didn't vanish under the
noise floor, and peaks don't suffer from the same limiting and bandlimiting
distortions.

However these days I do most R3 listening via the HD stream. And where
available tend to enjoy proms via BBC4 TV.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes
In article , Scott
wrote:


Why are BBC radio stations being taken off air? Why not the red button
stuff? As I see it, BBC radio stations are core services but the red
button stuff is not.

I'd agree.

It is also my personal view that there would been a more logical argument
for removing the Parliament channel in the evenings since it can be argued
that the situation is different in Scotland. There were various alternative
to removing so many radio channels. None were really ideal, and the
decision to let Alba displace something else was made on the basis of
rather dubious evidence. But if it is deemed necessary, the sacrifice seems
a very bad choice to me.


It is hard to devine the thinking of the suits that made this
proposal/decision. But I do wonder if this is just a reflection of some at
the BBC who regard 'TV' as being more important than mere sound radio.

No doubt some would also say, "but radio is also on VHF, DAB, etc",
however...

Before anyone points out this is Freeview (with the emphasis on the
'view') and radio services are available on other platforms, coverage of
Freeview is far superior to DAB in the Highlands.

...that is also what I think may well be the case.

Though I do not live in the HiIghlands and cannot speak from personal
experience I believe the some people get better TV reception than FM
radio.

I'd agree again. Indeed, that was why at the start of the year I tried to
produce comparable maps of TX powers and locations. The snag was that
no-one could provide me with the data for Freeview. Not even OfCom, which
is crazy when you think about it!

Slainte,

Jim

Why can't Alba be placed in the 11 hours of wasted space that is BBC HD
Preview.
--
Ian

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article ,
Ian wrote:

Why can't Alba be placed in the 11 hours of wasted space that is BBC HD
Preview.

Can HD and SD channels share a multiplex (and the SD channels be
received by non-DVB-T2 televisions)?

-- Richard

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

Richard Tobin wrote:
: Can HD and SD channels share a multiplex (and the SD channels be
: received by non-DVB-T2 televisions)?

It isn't the sharing of HD and SD channels which is the problem (BBC on
DSAT did this for ages with DVB-S) it is the fact that the HD mux on
Freeview is DVB-T2 (which SD Freeview receivers don't see).

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 24/05/2011 11:22, Ian wrote:

Why can't Alba be placed in the 11 hours of wasted space that is BBC HD
Preview.

In addition to Brian Mc's point, BBC Alba transmission hours are
evenings, and so are BBC HD's. Although, there's possibly enough space
on the HD DTT mux to accommodate it as an low bitrate SD service,
especially as it could be coded in MPEG4.

Of course making it SD exclusive might increase take up of T2 DTT
receivers, if the service is such a 'must have' as the BBC seem to think
;-)


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 23:45, J G Miller wrote:
On Monday, May 23rd, 2011 at 21:06:25 +0100, Mark Carver espoused:

Yea, but commercials are not programmes in my book.

Even if they are 28 minutes and 30 seconds infomercials? ;)

Well, if you say so, though you have used selective snipping of my post
to get the last word on this matter.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On 23/05/2011 08:21, Silk wrote:

I'm taking a guess that gaelic speakers are amongst the richer and more
influential end of the population.

No, but the PC brigade are.

Z

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , Zimmy wrote:
On 23/05/2011 08:21, Silk wrote:

I'm taking a guess that gaelic speakers are amongst the richer and
more influential end of the population.

No, but the PC brigade are.

To me the outcome we have looks very like a result of political 'in
fighting' between pressure/political groups. Then 'cornering' the BBC
Trust.

In essence there are two groups fighting for political turf. I can typify
them in over-simplified terms as follows:

One is the larger more moderate group who have an interest in Scotland
gaining more independence and control. But are generally in no hurry and
would regard equating 'Scots' with 'Gael' as daft. More likely to think
Gaelic about a relevant to their lives as tartan shortbread tins, despite
having a leaning towards independence.

The other is a much smaller group. They may well speak Gaelic and have a
keen interest in Gaelic culture, history, etc. And are more likely to
regard this as a badge of 'difference'.

Hence when the smaller group push an idea like having Gelic TV shove loads
of (english language) radio stations off DVT-B then the bigger group may
either be willing to go along and use it as a 'flag' that Scotland isn't
England. Or feel they can't say the idea is barmy for fear of being branded
as lacking in political zeal.

So a bit like the way other political parties can feel 'outflanked' by more
extreme minority groups. e.g. like the Tories in the past by UKIP when it
comes to some issues.

Similarly, the people at the BBC Trust may be clueless about the actual
poltical dynamics in Scotland, but feel they can't reject the idea for fear
of the BBC being branded 'anti Scottish' and the rejection used as a stick
to beat the 'English Broadcasting Corporation' and its SE England centered
thinking.

If you think that is weird, consider one other sign that occurred last
year.

In Scotland the first half of the 'Last Night of the Proms' was *not* shown
*at all* on terrestrial TV in Scotland, despite being a (UK) national
event. Yet it appeared on BBC2 in England. Instead we got a sort of
'Scottish Last Night' at that time.

Then the 'Scottish' work was repeated twice on BBC4, and again in Scotland.
This mean some of us got 2 to 4 'chances to see' the Scots concert. But
those in Scotland using Freeview *still* haven't had any chance at all to
see the first half from the RAH - which is the part with the music rather
than the celebrations.

Now I'd say the Scots concert was actually fairly enjoyable. But it simply
wasn't 'The Last Night of the Proms' and could easily have been shown on
another day. So this is another example of how someone somewhere thinks the
BBC have to show they are 'Distinctly Scottish' up here in a way that makes
more sense as a political flag than as a broadcast event.

My guess is that they will do this again this year. No mention in the
printed Proms guide, but the guide gave no warning last year, either. It
just said the first half would be on BBC2 - but it wasn't in Scotland!

Oh well, at least we all get a chance to listen to Eddie Mair on R4. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Tue, 24 May 2011 08:31:59 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

No doubt some would also say, "but radio is also on VHF, DAB, etc",
however...

Before anyone points out this is Freeview (with the emphasis on the
'view') and radio services are available on other platforms, coverage of
Freeview is far superior to DAB in the Highlands.

...that is also what I think may well be the case.

Though I do not live in the HiIghlands and cannot speak from personal
experience I believe the some people get better TV reception than FM
radio.

I'd agree again. Indeed, that was why at the start of the year I tried to
produce comparable maps of TX powers and locations. The snag was that
no-one could provide me with the data for Freeview. Not even OfCom, which
is crazy when you think about it!

Slainte,

Jim

I went to the far NW of Scotland for a few days' holiday last August,
after DSO. I'm not a great TV watcher when on holiday, but I was
impressed by the fact that the mainstream BBC radio channels were now
available on Freeview, in areas where FM reception and DAB are
virtually non-existent, and cable completely so. That benefit will
now be lost in the evenings.

Why on earth didn't they remove the likes of C4+1 or ITV2+1 from the
very limited selection carried by the relays, which is what most of
the population relies on there - and in parts of Dundee, come to think
of it!

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article ,
John J Armstrong wrote:

Why on earth didn't they remove the likes of C4+1 or ITV2+1 from the
very limited selection carried by the relays

Because they aren't allowed to take slots allocated to commercial
broadcasters and hand them over to the BBC?

-- Richard

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

In article , John J Armstrong
wrote:

I went to the far NW of Scotland for a few days' holiday last August,
after DSO. I'm not a great TV watcher when on holiday, but I was
impressed by the fact that the mainstream BBC radio channels were now
available on Freeview, in areas where FM reception and DAB are virtually
non-existent, and cable completely so. That benefit will now be lost in
the evenings.

The difficulty is to collect some meaningful stats on how many people will
be affected. The 'evidence' to the BBC Trust seems to be fairly weak and
slanted.

Why on earth didn't they remove the likes of C4+1 or ITV2+1 from the
very limited selection carried by the relays, which is what most of the
population relies on there - and in parts of Dundee, come to think of it!

I think the problem is that Alba is public-funded, and is being pushed onto
the BBC's plate for financial reasons. i.e. it can be made to look
'cheaper' by forcing the BBC to subsidise in ways that are off the Alba
balance sheets.

Personally, I'd also have been happier with a 'solution' that said Alba had
to pay for its space in commercial competition. No harm done if it were to
displace a shopping channel or a +1.

Might have even made more sense if it replaced one of the channels like
'Yesterday' which gets money from both sides of the fence by various means.
But not a decision the BBC Trust could easily have made, and would have
exposed the decision-making process to more open scrutiny by others who
might be immune to fearing that a refusal would be trumpeted as 'anti
Scottish' behaviour!

I also suspect that there are those inside the BBC who are worried by all
the issues about being pressurised to be less London-obsessed. This can
make some of them easily manipulated or 'paniced' into doing daft things
for fear that something worse might otherwise happen (from their POV).

Again, for clarity, I should say that I have no objection to Gaelic or Alba
TV being on freeview. I also want BBC Scotland to have its own TV and Radio
output, and appreciate much of what the produce. The problem as I see it is
the crazy way Alba is shoving out the radio, and other acts like the way
the proms were treated for the Scots audience last year.

BTW Last night whilst watching Reporting Scotland (BBC1 Scotland) our DTTV
RXs all popped up announcement boxes saying we would have to rescan if we
wanted to go on getting bbc radio due to the introduction of Alba. So it
looks like another 'benefit' of the change is that viewers in Scotland will
all have to re-scan just to go on listening to the radio on Freeview even
during the day, and regardless of having any interest in Alba TV!

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
John J Armstrong wrote:

Why on earth didn't they remove the likes of C4+1 or ITV2+1 from the
very limited selection carried by the relays

Because they aren't allowed to take slots allocated to commercial
broadcasters and hand them over to the BBC?

Which is the fundamental problem how DTT as a platform is being
regulated. The entire bandwidth available should be considered, and
priority given to PSB services, over commercial ones, no matter how
'minority' those PSB services might be. Satellite should be the default
home for all the gambling, shopping, and p0rn crap.

That will never happen in the market driven world that DTT has been
decreed to have to exist within.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Tue, 24 May 2011 17:29:08 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , Zimmy wrote:
On 23/05/2011 08:21, Silk wrote:

I'm taking a guess that gaelic speakers are amongst the richer and
more influential end of the population.

No, but the PC brigade are.

To me the outcome we have looks very like a result of political 'in
fighting' between pressure/political groups. Then 'cornering' the BBC
Trust.

In essence there are two groups fighting for political turf. I can typify
them in over-simplified terms as follows:

One is the larger more moderate group who have an interest in Scotland
gaining more independence and control. But are generally in no hurry and
would regard equating 'Scots' with 'Gael' as daft. More likely to think
Gaelic about a relevant to their lives as tartan shortbread tins, despite
having a leaning towards independence.

The other is a much smaller group. They may well speak Gaelic and have a
keen interest in Gaelic culture, history, etc. And are more likely to
regard this as a badge of 'difference'.

Hence when the smaller group push an idea like having Gelic TV shove loads
of (english language) radio stations off DVT-B then the bigger group may
either be willing to go along and use it as a 'flag' that Scotland isn't
England. Or feel they can't say the idea is barmy for fear of being branded
as lacking in political zeal.

In Northern Ireland we can receive the (Irish) Gaelic language channel
TG4 from analogue transmitters in the Republic. In the future that will
be broadcast in Northern Ireland on an additional (7th) multiplex along
with the Republic's main channels RTE1 and RTE2.

http://www.dtg.org.uk/dtg/press_release.php?id=27

Digital TV Group (DTG) welcomes joint Ireland and UK statement on
the availability of RTÉ and TG4 services on Freeview HD receivers in
Northern Ireland

20 December 2010, London -- The Digital TV Group (DTG), the industry
association for digital television in the UK, has welcomed the joint
UK and Ireland government statement on the transmission of RTÉ
(Raidió Teilifís Éireann) and TG4 (Teilifís na Gaeilge) services in
Northern Ireland, which will see a new Irish multiplex carried in
Northern Ireland using the technical standard at the core of the
UK's Freeview HD service.

The DTG has worked closely with the UK Department for Culture, Media
and Sport, Department for Business Innovation and Skills, Ofcom and
the Irish Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources
to ensure that the widespread availability of the Irish language
television station TG4 in Northern Ireland continues post digital
switchover. DTG representatives met with the Irish Government on
Friday to discuss the technical interoperability of the new
multiplex.

In addition to carrying TG4, this multiplex, which will be part of
the UK digital terrestrial television (DTT) system, will carry RTÉ 1
and RTÉ 2. It is hoped that this will further increase the coverage
of these channels in Northern Ireland, enabling approximately 90% of
the population in Northern Ireland to receive their services on a
free-to-air basis, either through overspill or via the new
multiplex.

The DTG looks forward to working with Digital UK and Freeview to
deliver clear consumer messaging to ensure that Northern Irish
viewers understand that integrated digital televisions, set-top
boxes and digital television recorders carrying the Freeview HD logo
will receive these services. The DTG will also work with all
stakeholders to ensure the same receivers can receive overspill of
Republic of Ireland services, which use the Nordig specification and
MPEG 4.

The DVB-T2 mode chosen for the new multiplex is QPSK rate 5/6,
details of which are defined in the D-Book. DTG Testing, the
industry's interoperability test house, already tests that Freeview
HD receivers functionally operate in this mode and the DTG RF Group
has been asked to define performance parameters with a view to
including these in future test requirements.
....

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 at 17:29:08h +0100, Jim Lesurf wrote:

In Scotland the first half of the 'Last Night of the Proms' was *not*
shown *at all* on terrestrial TV in Scotland, despite being a (UK)
national event.

A national event? An event for Greater London and Home County
middle class hooray-henries to sing Land of Hope and Glory and
Rule Britannia?

This has no cultural relevance to other parts of England let
alone the nations of Cymru, Alba, or Ulster.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Wednesday, May 25th, 2011 10:06:23 +0100, Mark Carver explained:

Which is the fundamental problem how DTT as a platform is being
regulated.

Did you say "regulated"? ;)

Remember it was the soft touch regulator OfCon in 2009 who allowed
up to three hours of infomercials a day on all programme channels,
including the PSB networks, which has resulted in overnight shopping
on both ITV-1 and S4C.

Voters have consistently voted for governments whose policies have
been "to allow the market to decide" since 1980, and the commercial
TV companies and multiplex operators have been extremely happy with
this arrangement, so calls for increased regulation are rather
pointless unless you intend to change the attitude of the electorate.

The entire bandwidth available should be considered, and
priority given to PSB services, over commercial ones

Yes, yes, 1000% yes, but it just ain't going to happen.

That will never happen in the market driven world that DTT has been
decreed to have to exist within.

Exactly.

And remember, it was voters like you (you been all registered UKofGB&NI
voters reading this), who allowed it to happen because never once did
you oppose the Broadcasting/Communications Acts of 1990, 2003 etc etc.

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Wed, 25 May 2011 09:37:30 +0100, Jim Lesurf wrote:

So it looks like another 'benefit' of the change is that viewers in
Scotland will all have to re-scan just to go on listening to the radio
on Freeview even during the day, and regardless of having any interest
in Alba TV!

Remember, the Freeview marketing organisation site urges viewers to
rescan regularly, at least once a month!

BBC Alba Freeview date unveiled
 

On Wed, 25 May 2011 10:47:30 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote:

In Northern Ireland we can receive the (Irish) Gaelic language channel
TG4 from analogue transmitters in the Republic. In the future that will
be broadcast in Northern Ireland on an additional (7th) multiplex along
with the Republic's main channels RTE1 and RTE2.

TG4 has been broadcast as an analog transmission at low power from
Divis since 2005 on UHF channel 59.

Since most viewers receiving their TV transmission from Divis will
have a Group A antenna, will they get any signal at all on UHF
channel 59?