| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
|
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
Once there will be HD Freeview channels transmitting in my area will I be
able to watch these channels on TV with standard Freeview tuner, albeit in standard definition? regards divoch |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"divoch" wrote in message ... Once there will be HD Freeview channels transmitting in my area will I be able to watch these channels on TV with standard Freeview tuner, albeit in standard definition? Yes if the station broadcasts in both SD and HD. Regards David |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:03:29 -0000, "divoch"
wrote: Once there will be HD Freeview channels transmitting in my area will I be able to watch these channels on TV with standard Freeview tuner, albeit in standard definition? No. A standard (non-HD) Freeview tuner cannot take an incoming HD broadcast and convert it to SD. SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. See also David's reply. -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:
SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE I carefully put the word decoding in scare quotes to indicate that it was not being used with exact precision. -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"divoch" wrote in message ... Once there will be HD Freeview channels transmitting in my area will I be able to watch these channels on TV with standard Freeview tuner, albeit in standard definition? regards divoch no, but you can carry on watching the SD simulcast ( except for bbc hd for which there isn't one of course ) -- Gareth. that fly...... is your magic wand.... http://dsbdsb.mybrute.com you fight better when you have a bear! |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"The dog from that film you saw" wrote in message ... "divoch" wrote in message ... Once there will be HD Freeview channels transmitting in my area will I be able to watch these channels on TV with standard Freeview tuner, albeit in standard definition? regards divoch no, but you can carry on watching the SD simulcast ( except for bbc hd for which there isn't one of course ) True, but a particular program might well be in SD on BBC2, 3 or 4 at the same time, or on another BBC station at a different time/day. Regards David |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
divoch wrote:
Once there will be HD Freeview channels transmitting in my area will I be able to watch these channels on TV with standard Freeview tuner, albeit in standard definition? regards divoch NO! -- Adrian |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark
wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. It keeps people in jobs making new ones. It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there would be mass unemployment worldwide. -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"Mark" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now. divoch |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
In article ,
divoch wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now. It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16 |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote:
It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue -- it is the hardware tuner. The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the older standard DVB-t) transmissions. And since the decoding for HD transmissions is MPEG-4 (h.264/AAC codec) there is a need for a more powerful processor in the TV to do the job compared to MPEG-2. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. All depends on how small the screen is, and regardless, a TV program broadcast in the HD format will not suffer the pixelation that occurs on fast moving scenes on SD transmissions in the UKofGB&NI even on the PSB-1 Multiplex because too many stations are crammed into the available bandwidth. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
In article ,
J G Miller wrote: On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote: It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue -- it is the hardware tuner. The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the older standard DVB-t) transmissions. The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care, what those bits are carrying. It's the decoders job to make sense of them. And since the decoding for HD transmissions is MPEG-4 (h.264/AAC codec) there is a need for a more powerful processor in the TV to do the job compared to MPEG-2. Who knows if the originally fitted processor is only just good enough for its current usage. It might have plenty of capacity in hand. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. All depends on how small the screen is, and regardless, a TV program broadcast in the HD format will not suffer the pixelation that occurs on fast moving scenes on SD transmissions in the UKofGB&NI even on the PSB-1 Multiplex because too many stations are crammed into the available bandwidth. including HD, I suspect -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16 |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
charles wrote:
In article , J G Miller wrote: On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote: It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue -- it is the hardware tuner. The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the older standard DVB-t) transmissions. The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care, what those bits are carrying. It's the decoders job to make sense of them. Depends where your draw that line within the receiver between *tuner* and *decoder*. For starters the adopted flavour of UK DVB-T2 uses 256QAM, so the tuner needs to detect and decode the carrier vectoring associated with that for starters, and that's totally ignoring the COFDM layer. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:03:17 +0000, charles wrote:
The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care, what those bits are carrying. Exactly, but just as you would not expect an AM tuner to be able to receive FM broadcasts, you would not expect a DVB-t tuners to be able to receive DVB-t2 broadcasts. It's the decoders job to make sense of them. Yes, decoding with the appropriate codec. including HD, I suspect Well since the HD broadcasts on Freeview are in fact "degraded" HD at 1440x1080i and not 1920x1080i, then this is already the case. But even so, the pixellation which is evident on SD for fast moving scenes eg the Saturday Night Encourage the Nation to Gamble Show and field sports where the blades of grass turn to a billiard table baize, does not appear on the HD broadcasts. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
In message , J G Miller
writes On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:03:17 +0000, charles wrote: The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care, what those bits are carrying. Exactly, but just as you would not expect an AM tuner to be able to receive FM broadcasts, you would not expect a DVB-t tuners to be able to receive DVB-t2 broadcasts. But there IS an analogy in that all three analogue colour TV systems were specifically designed to allow monochrome TV sets to receive them perfectly well in monochrome. Maybe the OP had this in mind. Does the fact that you can't receive HD transmissions on an SD set not suggest that maybe the designers didn't try hard enough? ;o) -- Ian |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
Mark wrote:
: And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to : chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES! |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
divoch wrote:
: So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that : has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD : channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Total nonsense! : Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not : available on standard definition channels? Not likely! The ONLY broadcasters who are likely to be able to offer non-subscription HD channels in the near future will be simulcasting. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
charles wrote:
: It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary : decoding software. NO!!!! It is not! DVB-T2 requires new silicon. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
Brian Mc wrote:
: : Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not : : available on standard definition channels? : Not likely! The ONLY broadcasters who are likely to be able to offer : non-subscription HD channels in the near future will be simulcasting. I am being stupid! The obvious (and so far ONLY!) exception is BBCHD - which is NOT a simulcast of anything. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
In article ,
J G Miller wrote: Exactly, but just as you would not expect an AM tuner to be able to receive FM broadcasts A pedant writes: You *can* use an AM tuner to receive FM broadcasts. If you tune an AM receiver slightly off the frequency of an FM broadcast, the varying frequencies of the FM will be at varying distances from the receiver's resonant frequency, and thus more or less well-received. This will appear just like the varying amplitude of an AM signal. It's known as "slope detection", referring to the slope of the tuner's sensitivity on either side of the tuned frequency. The quality will not be great: for one thing the slope will not be linear. We now return you to your scheduled AM broadcast. -- Richard |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
In article ,
Brian Mc wrote: I am being stupid! The obvious (and so far ONLY!) exception is BBCHD - which is NOT a simulcast of anything. However, the programs showin on BBC HD are shown on other BBC channels at some time or other. I imagine there would be a great outcry if they carried anything significant that was not available to SD viewers. -- Richard |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
Ian Jackson wrote:
: Does the fact that you can't receive HD transmissions on an SD set not : suggest that maybe the designers didn't try hard enough? ;o) Not really! DVB-T2 was only finalised this year. It would have been unrealistic to have, as a design goal, "to be received by DVB-T" - when this was likely to compromise ALL the efficiency gains! It is NOT like DVB-T tuner HD Freeview sets won't be able to receive Freeview HD broadcasts - they will need an external box! |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"charles" wrote in message ... In article , divoch wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now. It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. -- My main concern is that I shall not be able to see all the programmes transmitted on all the channels and that some HD channels may have programmes not transmitted on standard channels. Even on a smaller TV I would like to be able to see all the available programmes whether they are transmitted HD or not. divoch |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:50:16 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote: On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. It keeps people in jobs making new ones. It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there would be mass unemployment worldwide. In China. Let's not exaggerate. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:25:48 -0000, "divoch"
wrote: "charles" wrote in message . .. In article , divoch wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now. It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. -- My main concern is that I shall not be able to see all the programmes transmitted on all the channels and that some HD channels may have programmes not transmitted on standard channels. Even on a smaller TV I would like to be able to see all the available programmes whether they are transmitted HD or not. You can buy a Freeview HD set-top box (STB) to plug into the TV to give you access to Freeview HD channels. -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 15:12:42h +0000, Brian Mc wrote:
That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES! 2 years minimum perhaps. A week is a long time in politics. A year is an age in Digital Video Broadcasting ;) |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:03:16 +0000, Scott
wrote: On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:50:16 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. It keeps people in jobs making new ones. It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there would be mass unemployment worldwide. In China. Let's not exaggerate. Don't forget all the people involved in the retail trade in this country. -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:27:14 -0000, "divoch"
wrote: "Mark" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now. divoch Although strictly speaking not programmes that are unavailable on SD I find that quite frequently I can watch a programme on BBC HD (the original, now on Channel 54) that is going out on SD at the same time in most of the UK except Scotland. This gives me a degree of choice as BBC Scotland often broadcasts the same programme in SD at a different and less convenient time. This saves me having to record it. An HD "ready" TV without a DVB-T2 tuner would not have this choice. This alone would make me now only buy TVs with a DVB-T2 tuner whether or not the benefits of HD would be apparent on a small screen. As has been noted, anything smaller than 32" with a DVB-T2 tuner does not currently seem to exist. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
... On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. It keeps people in jobs making new ones. Mostly Chinese people though. It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there would be mass unemployment worldwide. -- Brian Gregory. (In the UK) To email me remove the letter vee. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"charles" wrote in message
... In article , J G Miller wrote: On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote: It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue -- it is the hardware tuner. The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the older standard DVB-t) transmissions. The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care, what those bits are carrying. It's the decoders job to make sense of them. But the method needed to extract the bits is different and much more complex in DVB-T2 and is normally done by specially made chip. It's highly unlikely that a software upgrade could add DVB-T2 and H.264 to any DVB-T/MPEG2 receiver. Even less likely that any manufacturer would do this -- just look at how relcuant they often are just to fix bugs. And since the decoding for HD transmissions is MPEG-4 (h.264/AAC codec) there is a need for a more powerful processor in the TV to do the job compared to MPEG-2. Who knows if the originally fitted processor is only just good enough for its current usage. It might have plenty of capacity in hand. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. All depends on how small the screen is, and regardless, a TV program broadcast in the HD format will not suffer the pixelation that occurs on fast moving scenes on SD transmissions in the UKofGB&NI even on the PSB-1 Multiplex because too many stations are crammed into the available bandwidth. including HD, I suspect -- Brian Gregory. (In the UK) To email me remove the letter vee. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
Brian Mc wrote:
Mark wrote: : And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to : chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES! I'll bet you a virtual pint that by Dec 21st 2019 all DTT muxes in the UK will be DVB-T2. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. www.paras.org.uk |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:30:49 +0000, Mark Carver wrote:
Brian Mc wrote: Mark wrote: : And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to : chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES! I'll bet you a virtual pint that by Dec 21st 2019 all DTT muxes in the UK will be DVB-T2. As late as 2019? Arquiva will be clammering to get the commercial multiplexes switched over to DVB-t2 as soon as possible, and the BBC will be increasingly under pressure to allow conversion of the mutiplex carrying their broadcasts. This is especially as they are short of space now, with the intention of dropping BBC network radio stations in Scotland for the purpose of squeezing in BBC Alba television. I notice nobody has suggested that it uses the 23 h downtime of Tele G. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:25:48 -0000, "divoch" wrote: "charles" wrote in message .. . In article , divoch wrote: "Mark" wrote in message ... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote: SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard. An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it. You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding. A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission. It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded. So to summarize: Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding. Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding. Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t transmission but MPEG-4 encoding. Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions. http://www.saorview.IE And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to chuck away all those STBs. There's progress. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now. It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary decoding software. Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though. -- My main concern is that I shall not be able to see all the programmes transmitted on all the channels and that some HD channels may have programmes not transmitted on standard channels. Even on a smaller TV I would like to be able to see all the available programmes whether they are transmitted HD or not. You can buy a Freeview HD set-top box (STB) to plug into the TV to give you access to Freeview HD channels. I have not bought that TV yet and I would not want to buy one of those already obsolete TVs when it means I shall have to have another box and another remote control by my bed to control it. There should be big warning signs in the shops pointing out that many of those TVs now in the shops cannot be used to receive all Freeview channels without the extra STB box. Instead I got totally incorrect advice in the shop about the compatibility of the current TVs - no mention of necessity of extra STB was made.. Also, why do manufacturers do not push and we do not buy monitors and extra boxes every time rather than TVs with obsolete decoders if everyone is happy with two box setup? |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
"divoch" wrote in message
... I have not bought that TV yet and I would not want to buy one of those already obsolete TVs when it means I shall have to have another box and another remote control by my bed to control it. There should be big warning signs in the shops pointing out that many of those TVs now in the shops cannot be used to receive all Freeview channels without the extra STB box. I would probably buy a TV with 'Full HD' and 'Freeview HD' A further consideration is what the TV can receive via the Internet. However 'Freeview HD' might not be such an important feature if I also intended to buy a Freeview HD PVR. -- Michael Chare |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:41:21 +0000, Michael Chare wrote:
However 'Freeview HD' might not be such an important feature if I also intended to buy a Freeview HD PVR. But then would you be able to watch something on BBC-1 HD and at the same time record the program on BBC HD. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
In article ,
J G Miller wrote: Arquiva will be clammering to get the commercial multiplexes switched over to DVB-t2 as soon as possible Do you mean for HD? That seems unlikely as you don't seem to be able to get as many HD channels in a DVB-T2 multiplex as SD channels in a DVB-T one. Or do you mean for SD, so they can provide more channels of rubbish? Will current Freeview HD branded TVs handle SD on DVB-T2? Obviously they ought to, but I wonder if they have tested it. I notice nobody has suggested that it uses the 23 h downtime of Tele G. That's already used by CITV, isn't it? -- Richard |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 23:20:40h +0000, Richard Tobin wrote:
Or do you mean for SD, so they can provide more channels of rubbish? One culture snob's channel of rubbish (teleshopping, quiz station etc) is another entrepreneur's source of quarterly dividend cheque. In the free market deregulated broadcasting economy implemented by the FauX LaboUr administration, profits trump culture. Will current Freeview HD branded TVs handle SD on DVB-T2? Why should they not? The DVB-t2 tuner does not care whether it is SD, HD, MHEG, or radio; it is the decoding and LCN management software that will take care of sorting out the contents of the multiplex stream. Obviously they ought to, but I wonder if they have tested it. Testing of the cheaper boxes or cheaper software development process is usually left to the viewers, as the split-NIT issue revealed. That's already used by CITV, isn't it? Not after 18:00h. Incidentally not everything is in the Gaelic language on BBC Alba. Some programs are in the Sami (also spelled Sámi, or Saami) language. 18:50–19:30 Eira Family Episode 2 The way of life of a Saami family of reindeer herders. In Saami with English subtitles. |
HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 00:02:56 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote: On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 23:20:40h +0000, Richard Tobin wrote: Or do you mean for SD, so they can provide more channels of rubbish? One culture snob's channel of rubbish (teleshopping, quiz station etc) is another entrepreneur's source of quarterly dividend cheque. In the free market deregulated broadcasting economy implemented by the FauX LaboUr administration, profits trump culture. Will current Freeview HD branded TVs handle SD on DVB-T2? Why should they not? The DVB-t2 tuner does not care whether it is SD, HD, MHEG, or radio; it is the decoding and LCN management software that will take care of sorting out the contents of the multiplex stream. Obviously they ought to, but I wonder if they have tested it. Testing of the cheaper boxes or cheaper software development process is usually left to the viewers, as the split-NIT issue revealed. That's already used by CITV, isn't it? Not after 18:00h. Incidentally not everything is in the Gaelic language on BBC Alba. Some programs are in the Sami (also spelled Sámi, or Saami) language. 18:50–19:30 Eira Family Episode 2 The way of life of a Saami family of reindeer herders. In Saami with English subtitles. I saw one episode of that on Ireland's Irish Gaelic channel TG4. I seem to remember some of the dialogue was in Norwegian. It was an interesting programme. http://nordicworld.tv/1136/program/program/null -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:22 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HomeCinemaBanter.com