HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:49:32 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.

It keeps people in jobs making new ones.

Mostly Chinese people though.


It is somewhat alarming. If we were, as individuals and as a society, to
cut back on purchases that are not strictly necessary to life there
would be mass unemployment worldwide.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
J G Miller wrote:
On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote:

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.

It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue --
it is the hardware tuner.

The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the
older standard DVB-t) transmissions.

The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or
care,
what those bits are carrying. It's the decoders job to make sense of
them.

But the method needed to extract the bits is different and much more complex
in DVB-T2 and is normally done by specially made chip.

It's highly unlikely that a software upgrade could add DVB-T2 and H.264 to
any DVB-T/MPEG2 receiver.

Even less likely that any manufacturer would do this -- just look at how
relcuant they often are just to fix bugs.


And since the decoding for HD transmissions is MPEG-4 (h.264/AAC
codec) there is a need for a more powerful processor in the TV
to do the job compared to MPEG-2.

Who knows if the originally fitted processor is only just good enough for
its current usage. It might have plenty of capacity in hand.

Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

All depends on how small the screen is, and regardless, a TV
program broadcast in the HD format will not suffer the pixelation
that occurs on fast moving scenes on SD transmissions in the UKofGB&NI
even on the PSB-1 Multiplex because too many stations are crammed
into the available bandwidth.

including HD, I suspect

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

Brian Mc wrote:
Mark wrote:
: And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
: chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.

That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT
muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES!

I'll bet you a virtual pint that by Dec 21st 2019 all DTT muxes in the UK will
be DVB-T2.



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

www.paras.org.uk

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:30:49 +0000, Mark Carver wrote:

Brian Mc wrote:
Mark wrote: : And when they switch
off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to : chuck away all those
STBs. There's progress.

That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT
muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES!

I'll bet you a virtual pint that by Dec 21st 2019 all DTT muxes in the
UK will be DVB-T2.

As late as 2019?

Arquiva will be clammering to get the commercial multiplexes switched
over to DVB-t2 as soon as possible, and the BBC will be increasingly
under pressure to allow conversion of the mutiplex carrying their
broadcasts.

This is especially as they are short of space now, with the intention
of dropping BBC network radio stations in Scotland for the purpose of
squeezing in BBC Alba television.

I notice nobody has suggested that it uses the 23 h downtime of
Tele G.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:25:48 -0000, "divoch"
wrote:


"charles" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
divoch wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller

wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2
standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will
ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with
DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now,
that
has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview
HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will
there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would
make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there
are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right
now.

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.
Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

--
My main concern is that I shall not be able to see all the programmes
transmitted on all the channels and that some HD channels may have
programmes not transmitted on standard channels. Even on a smaller TV I
would like to be able to see all the available programmes whether they are
transmitted HD or not.

You can buy a Freeview HD set-top box (STB) to plug into the TV to give
you access to Freeview HD channels.

I have not bought that TV yet and I would not want to buy one of those
already obsolete TVs when it means I shall have to have another box and
another remote control by my bed to control it. There should be big warning
signs in the shops pointing out that many of those TVs now in the shops
cannot be used to receive all Freeview channels without the extra STB box.
Instead I got totally incorrect advice in the shop about the compatibility
of the current TVs - no mention of necessity of extra STB was made..
Also, why do manufacturers do not push and we do not buy monitors and extra
boxes every time rather than TVs with obsolete decoders if everyone is happy
with two box setup?

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

"divoch" wrote in message
...


I have not bought that TV yet and I would not want to buy one of those
already obsolete TVs when it means I shall have to have another box and
another remote control by my bed to control it. There should be big
warning signs in the shops pointing out that many of those TVs now in the
shops cannot be used to receive all Freeview channels without the extra
STB box.

I would probably buy a TV with 'Full HD' and 'Freeview HD' A further
consideration is what the TV can receive via the Internet.

However 'Freeview HD' might not be such an important feature if I also
intended to buy a Freeview HD PVR.


--
Michael Chare

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:41:21 +0000, Michael Chare wrote:

However 'Freeview HD' might not be such an important feature if I also
intended to buy a Freeview HD PVR.

But then would you be able to watch something on BBC-1 HD and at the same
time record the program on BBC HD.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

In article ,
J G Miller wrote:

Arquiva will be clammering to get the commercial multiplexes switched
over to DVB-t2 as soon as possible

Do you mean for HD? That seems unlikely as you don't seem to be able
to get as many HD channels in a DVB-T2 multiplex as SD channels in a
DVB-T one. Or do you mean for SD, so they can provide more channels
of rubbish?

Will current Freeview HD branded TVs handle SD on DVB-T2? Obviously
they ought to, but I wonder if they have tested it.

I notice nobody has suggested that it uses the 23 h downtime of
Tele G.

That's already used by CITV, isn't it?

-- Richard

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 23:20:40h +0000, Richard Tobin wrote:

Or do you mean for SD, so they can provide more channels of
rubbish?

One culture snob's channel of rubbish (teleshopping, quiz station etc)
is another entrepreneur's source of quarterly dividend cheque.

In the free market deregulated broadcasting economy implemented by
the FauX LaboUr administration, profits trump culture.

Will current Freeview HD branded TVs handle SD on DVB-T2?

Why should they not? The DVB-t2 tuner does not care whether it
is SD, HD, MHEG, or radio; it is the decoding and LCN management
software that will take care of sorting out the contents of the
multiplex stream.

Obviously they ought to, but I wonder if they have tested it.

Testing of the cheaper boxes or cheaper software development
process is usually left to the viewers, as the split-NIT issue revealed.

That's already used by CITV, isn't it?

Not after 18:00h.

Incidentally not everything is in the Gaelic language on BBC Alba.

Some programs are in the Sami (also spelled Sámi, or Saami) language.

18:50–19:30
Eira Family
Episode 2
The way of life of a Saami family of reindeer herders.
In Saami with English subtitles.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 00:02:56 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 23:20:40h +0000, Richard Tobin wrote:

Or do you mean for SD, so they can provide more channels of
rubbish?

One culture snob's channel of rubbish (teleshopping, quiz station etc)
is another entrepreneur's source of quarterly dividend cheque.

In the free market deregulated broadcasting economy implemented by
the FauX LaboUr administration, profits trump culture.

Will current Freeview HD branded TVs handle SD on DVB-T2?

Why should they not? The DVB-t2 tuner does not care whether it
is SD, HD, MHEG, or radio; it is the decoding and LCN management
software that will take care of sorting out the contents of the
multiplex stream.

Obviously they ought to, but I wonder if they have tested it.

Testing of the cheaper boxes or cheaper software development
process is usually left to the viewers, as the split-NIT issue revealed.

That's already used by CITV, isn't it?

Not after 18:00h.

Incidentally not everything is in the Gaelic language on BBC Alba.

Some programs are in the Sami (also spelled Sámi, or Saami) language.

18:50–19:30
Eira Family
Episode 2
The way of life of a Saami family of reindeer herders.
In Saami with English subtitles.

I saw one episode of that on Ireland's Irish Gaelic channel TG4. I seem
to remember some of the dialogue was in Norwegian. It was an interesting
programme.
http://nordicworld.tv/1136/program/program/null

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)