HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that
has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD
channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct?
Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would make
it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there are not
many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now.

divoch

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

In article ,
divoch wrote:

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:35:36 +0000, Peter Duncanson wrote:

SD is broadcast using the DVB-T standard. HD uses the DVB-T2 standard.
An SD Freeview box can handle only DVB-T (SD) material. It will ignore
DVB-T2 (HD) stuff. It has no means of "decoding" it.

You are confusing two issue here -- tuning and decoding.

A standard SD Freeview receiver does ignores the DVB-t2 transmissions
because it cannot receive the DVB-t2 format of the transmission.

It is only after the signal has been processed by the tuner that the
HD multiplex video stream encoded in MPEG-4 (h.264 codec) is decoded.

So to summarize:

Freeview SD is DVB-t transmission with MPEG-2 encoding.

Freeview HD is DVB-t2 transmission with MPEG-4 encoding.

Other European countries current broadcast terrestrial HDTV with DVB-t
transmission but MPEG-4 encoding.

Saorview uses this format for both SD and HD transmissions.

http://www.saorview.IE

And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that
has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview
HD channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct? Will
there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
available on standard definition channels? If there were then it would
make it rather more painful to buy TV now. As far as I can tell there
are not many small screen TVs with HD Freeview decoder on sale right now.

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.
Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote:

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.

It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue --
it is the hardware tuner.

The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the
older standard DVB-t) transmissions.

And since the decoding for HD transmissions is MPEG-4 (h.264/AAC
codec) there is a need for a more powerful processor in the TV
to do the job compared to MPEG-2.

Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

All depends on how small the screen is, and regardless, a TV
program broadcast in the HD format will not suffer the pixelation
that occurs on fast moving scenes on SD transmissions in the UKofGB&NI
even on the PSB-1 Multiplex because too many stations are crammed
into the available bandwidth.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

In article ,
J G Miller wrote:
On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote:

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.

It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue --
it is the hardware tuner.

The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the
older standard DVB-t) transmissions.

The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care,
what those bits are carrying. It's the decoders job to make sense of them.

And since the decoding for HD transmissions is MPEG-4 (h.264/AAC
codec) there is a need for a more powerful processor in the TV
to do the job compared to MPEG-2.

Who knows if the originally fitted processor is only just good enough for
its current usage. It might have plenty of capacity in hand.

Not sure of the benefit of HD on a small screen set, though.

All depends on how small the screen is, and regardless, a TV
program broadcast in the HD format will not suffer the pixelation
that occurs on fast moving scenes on SD transmissions in the UKofGB&NI
even on the PSB-1 Multiplex because too many stations are crammed
into the available bandwidth.

including HD, I suspect

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

charles wrote:
In article ,
J G Miller wrote:
On Tuesday, December 21st, 2010 at 12:32:14h +0000, Charles wrote:

It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
decoding software.

It is not the *decoding* software which is the critical issue --
it is the hardware tuner.

The tuner must be capable of receiving DVB-t2 (as well as the
older standard DVB-t) transmissions.

The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or care,
what those bits are carrying. It's the decoders job to make sense of them.

Depends where your draw that line within the receiver between *tuner*
and *decoder*. For starters the adopted flavour of UK DVB-T2 uses
256QAM, so the tuner needs to detect and decode the carrier vectoring
associated with that for starters, and that's totally ignoring the COFDM
layer.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:03:17 +0000, charles wrote:

The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or
care, what those bits are carrying.

Exactly, but just as you would not expect an AM tuner to be able to
receive FM broadcasts, you would not expect a DVB-t tuners to be
able to receive DVB-t2 broadcasts.

It's the decoders job to make sense of them.

Yes, decoding with the appropriate codec.

including HD, I suspect

Well since the HD broadcasts on Freeview are in fact "degraded" HD
at 1440x1080i and not 1920x1080i, then this is already the case.

But even so, the pixellation which is evident on SD for fast moving
scenes eg the Saturday Night Encourage the Nation to Gamble Show
and field sports where the blades of grass turn to a billiard table
baize, does not appear on the HD broadcasts.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

In message , J G Miller
writes
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:03:17 +0000, charles wrote:

The tuner just presents data bits to the decoder. It doesn't know, or
care, what those bits are carrying.

Exactly, but just as you would not expect an AM tuner to be able to
receive FM broadcasts, you would not expect a DVB-t tuners to be
able to receive DVB-t2 broadcasts.

But there IS an analogy in that all three analogue colour TV systems
were specifically designed to allow monochrome TV sets to receive them
perfectly well in monochrome. Maybe the OP had this in mind.

Does the fact that you can't receive HD transmissions on an SD set not
suggest that maybe the designers didn't try hard enough? ;o)




--
Ian

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

Mark wrote:
: And when they switch off the DVD-T tranmissions we'll all have to
: chuck away all those STBs. There's progress.

That's just being alarmist! There are NO PLANS to convert any more DTT
muxes to DVT2! It MAY happen - but not for AGES!

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

divoch wrote:
: So, when the sales rep in the shop claimed that if I buy new TV now, that
: has only standard Freeview receiver, I shall be able to watch Freeview HD
: channels (although not in HD) he was talking nonsense. Correct?

Total nonsense!

: Will there be any HD channels that will have different programmes, not
: available on standard definition channels?

Not likely! The ONLY broadcasters who are likely to be able to offer
non-subscription HD channels in the near future will be simulcasting.

HD Freeview on TV with a standard Freeview tuner
 

charles wrote:
: It is always possible that the set is able to download the necessary
: decoding software.

NO!!!! It is not! DVB-T2 requires new silicon.