BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

j r powell wrote:

I notice you smiled at Steve Thickery when he insulted me by the way, so
perhaps you's prefer to continue this discussion with him. You'll find
he's a big-headed anorak-type who, despite all his big talk, can barely
even wire an electrical plug. Like so many of his ilk however, he's good
at being rude and sneery, and uses this skill to gain whatever undeserved
respect he can from shallow people who don't know any better.

On the nail in every respect! Bar one, actually - I'm not really
bothered about gaining the respect of people I don't know personally.

Other than that, I agree that I'm rude, arrogant and big-headed, have
no idea what all the brass bits inside an electrical plug are for, and
enjoy sneering at people. In fact, I'm really quite a disagreeable
person.

Also, I'm remarkably unintelligent and surprisingly lacking in even the
most basic education. I pick my nose in public and nibble at the nasal
debris that sticks to my finger.

I'm a benefits junkie, and commit all sorts of fraud at the expense of
my honest, tax-paying fellow citizens.

I'm grotesquely fat with a white, hairy belly that hangs over my
trouser belt and peeks from under my skin-tight nylon tee shirt. I
belch loudly in cafes, and then laugh. I talk in cinemas. I'm
fascinated by smegma. I don't bother much with washing.

Oh yes, my feet smell, too. AND I've got halitosis (google it, Jamie)
so bad I can wrinke paint with it.

SteveT

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

On Saturday, November 6th, 2010 at 20:20:24h +0000, Steve Thackery wrote:

I talk in cinemas.

In today's tolerant society, all of your other failings can be
"overlooked", but this one just goes too far.

I suspect you do not turn off your GSM in the theater or
concert hall either. ;)

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

In a rare moment of realism, "Steve Thackery" wrote in message
...

I'm grotesquely fat with a white, hairy belly that hangs over my trouser
belt and peeks from under my skin-tight nylon tee shirt. I belch loudly
in cafes, and then laugh. I talk in cinemas. I'm fascinated by smegma.
I don't bother much with washing.

You forgot to mention your greasy combover, and tatty leather jacket from
1963 which no longer fits - a combination which you *think* makes you
attractive to the opposite sex as you chug through the streets in your
rustbucket car (to which you've made a variety of eccentric and incompetent
amateur modifications).

jamie.
--

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 20:20:24 GMT, Steve Thackery
wrote:

...
I'm grotesquely fat with a white, hairy belly that hangs over my
trouser belt and peeks from under my skin-tight nylon tee shirt. I
belch loudly in cafes, and then laugh. I talk in cinemas. I'm
fascinated by smegma. I don't bother much with washing.
...

If you farted very loudly in church you'd be almost perfect.

BTW, please don't quote him as it makes it unpleasant for those of us
who've consigned him to eternal damnation in our kill files.

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

On Nov 6, 7:26*pm, "j r powell" wrote:
The point I am making however, is that unlike "true RGB", SD digital TV
before it's even been MPEG comprssed still applies a reduction in chroma
bandwidth relative to the luma

That is *not* the point you were making - you referred to "true PAL"
not to "true RGB". RGB (whether analogue or digital) has no relevance
to this thread at all.

And on digital, check jackets et al are ravaged by something akin to
interlace twitter, seemingly occuring as the pattern edges jump between set
sample points, causing them to exhibit a flickering effect

Could well be caused by a poor MPEG decoder, or poor scaling to a non-
native display size. Not necessarily an MPEG coding issue at all.

You can repeat your mantra of "MPEG issues are negligible" as many times as
you like, but the fact that I and many others disagree with you ought to
tell you something :P

It tells me that it takes all sorts to make a world.

I also mentioned the fact that modern-day PAL
transmissions are derived from lossy digital sources

They're no more lossy than old-style analogue PAL transmissions.

The ARCs are lossy imo.

I'm pleased you admit it's only your opinion. Fortunately, having
designed ARCs myself I don't need to rely on other people's opinions.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

On Fri, 05 Nov 2010 15:48:56 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 15:28:50 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Friday, November 5th, 2010 at 05:08:18 -0700, Richard Russell declared:

When colour TV started a lot of the programmes were still in black &
white. Was that a misrepresentation? Of course not!

Surely the ITV companies were honest about this and the BBC were not?

Prior to all programs on BBC-1 and BBC-2 there was an identification
"BBC-1 Colour" and "BBC-2 Colour" even though the program was in
monochrome, whereas the ITV companies only put "in Colour" when the
program was in colour.

Similarly today, there is a big logo in the top left of BBC-1 HD
declaring BBC-1 HD on programs which are upscaled from SD, whereas
on ITV-1 HD, only programs originating in HD have the ITV-1 HD
logo displayed.

It seems to me that the BBC continues in its policies of trying
to fool the viewer.

The same charge of misrepresentation can also be leveled at Channel4
and S4C who as far as I am aware display an HD logo even when the
program is not HD material.

Isn't the point that the BBC 1 HD logo is the channel name like all
other channel ident logos? It does not say anything about the material
currently being broadcast.

This afternoon I switched to BBC One HD (via Freesat) to watch a bit of
the F1 Qualifying and noticed that the BBC One HD logo was missing.
After a while I realised that it wasn't missing but was in the top right
corner instead of the top left. During a later programme it was back in
the top left. I've just had another look and it's in the top right
again.

Puzzling.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

j r powell wrote:

- a combination which you *think* makes you
attractive to the opposite sex.....

Same sex.

SteveT

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

Alan Whit wrote:

If you farted very loudly in church you'd be almost perfect.

Actually I don't go to church, but my farts are legendary. People can
taste them. I once evacuated an entire corridor of People's College in
Nottingham. Not so long ago I farted at work and they thought there'd
been an industrial accident.

Unfortunately some of my farts have lumps in them, which requires me to
jettison my undies - I usually flush them down the loo, although I have
caused the odd blockage that way, which I always find hilarious.

SteveT

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

Alan Whit wrote:

BTW, please don't quote him as it makes it unpleasant for those of us
who've consigned him to eternal damnation in our kill files.

Ooops, you're quite right. My bad, sorry.

SteveT

BBC 1 HD Picture Quality - Any views?
 

"Richard Russell" wrote in message
...

On Nov 6, 7:26 pm, "j r powell" wrote:
The point I am making however, is that unlike "true RGB", SD digital TV
before it's even been MPEG comprssed still applies a reduction in chroma
bandwidth relative to the luma

That is *not* the point you were making - you referred to "true PAL"
not to "true RGB". RGB (whether analogue or digital) has no relevance
to this thread at all.

I disagree. You claimed that analogue TV "wasn't uncompressed" due to the
fact that its chroma components used lossy PAL compression. I merely pointed
out that lossy chroma compression still exists with digital TV *in addition*
to the lossy MPEG compression stage.
If you're going to count PAL as lossy compression and 4:2:2 chroma
subsampling as uncompressed, then it's not a level playing field.


And on digital, check jackets et al are ravaged by something akin to
interlace twitter, seemingly occuring as the pattern edges jump between
set
sample points, causing them to exhibit a flickering effect

Could well be caused by a poor MPEG decoder, or poor scaling to a non-
native display size. Not necessarily an MPEG coding issue at all.

I didn't say it was an MPEG coding issue - just a sampling artefact. Some of
these horrid DVB boxes do indeed have awful scaling, although I've seen the
effect on lots of different chipsets.
If the aforementioned patterns were moving, MPEG will often turn them into a
pixellated mush in any event, so one problem arguably masks out the other...


You can repeat your mantra of "MPEG issues are negligible" as many times
as
you like, but the fact that I and many others disagree with you ought to
tell you something :P

It tells me that it takes all sorts to make a world.

Including those who can't tell the difference between high bandwidth
"uncompressed luma" (happy?) video, and something which resembles a DSL
webcam feed :p


I also mentioned the fact that modern-day PAL
transmissions are derived from lossy digital sources

They're no more lossy than old-style analogue PAL transmissions.

This sounds like another crude comparison... :p


The ARCs are lossy imo.

I'm pleased you admit it's only your opinion. Fortunately, having
designed ARCs myself I don't need to rely on other people's opinions.

You admitted they were lossy in your previous post, although I wasn't
implying that this was a design fault.
I realise that deinterlacing is inherently lossy, because the software has
to rely on guesswork to try and recreate information which is not present in
the source signal.
imho the BBC should've chosen 12F12 for widescreen programming shown on
analogue though (except films), and made everything 4:3 action safe (as the
Americans seem to do, and as the BBC/ITV always do for sport) but since my
region's analogue service was so poor in its final years, had they done this
you'd have barely been able to tell the difference quality-wise in any
event.

jamie.
--