Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:51:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Everything from satellite receivers to computers seems to need
unplugging from the mains so often and plugging back in. How come? Why
don't they make these things so that when they're incapable of doing
their job they just automatically reboot? Couldn't satellite receivers
(for instance) just run some sort of self-check routine in the
background and if it fails do a reboot? (and come back on the same
channel of course?).

Bill

Every single PC I've ever used will hang if you give it a dodgy CD or
DVD. Surely this is the obvious place for a 'free' watchdog - 'If I
haven't read this data in ten seconds I'll tell you you have a
knackered disc.'

My DVD players are just the same - if my Panny comes across a bad bit
on a disc it makes endless excruciating painful noises - at the end
of which the only option is to pull the mains. Again a 10 second,
'We have a problem - would you like me to try jumping on 30 secs' etc
should do the trick.

GrahamC

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

Graham C wrote:

Every single PC I've ever used will hang if you give it a dodgy CD or
DVD. Surely this is the obvious place for a 'free' watchdog - 'If I
haven't read this data in ten seconds I'll tell you you have a
knackered disc.'

A watchdog is a bit strong for that, just giving up and displaying an
error message would suffice, I'd get rather ****ed off if I managed to
put a CD in label-side down and 10 seconds later the PC rebooted.

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

Graham C wrote:

Every single PC I've ever used will hang if you give it a dodgy CD or
DVD.

I've had PCs since they were invented, and I can't remember that ever
being true.

I'm NOT asserting it wasn't ever true - just that I can't remember it.
:-)

But I don't think any of the NT-based versions of Windows (i.e. ALL
versions of Windows since XP) can be hung by a corrupted CD or DVD.
Dunno about Windows 95, etc; I moved over to NT 4 as soon as it came
out.

SteveT

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

Graham C said the following on 30/09/2010 18:22:
On Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:51:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

Everything from satellite receivers to computers seems to need
unplugging from the mains so often and plugging back in. How come? Why
don't they make these things so that when they're incapable of doing
their job they just automatically reboot? Couldn't satellite receivers
(for instance) just run some sort of self-check routine in the
background and if it fails do a reboot? (and come back on the same
channel of course?).

Bill

Every single PC I've ever used will hang if you give it a dodgy CD or
DVD. Surely this is the obvious place for a 'free' watchdog - 'If I
haven't read this data in ten seconds I'll tell you you have a
knackered disc.'

My DVD players are just the same - if my Panny comes across a bad bit
on a disc it makes endless excruciating painful noises - at the end
of which the only option is to pull the mains. Again a 10 second,
'We have a problem - would you like me to try jumping on 30 secs' etc
should do the trick.

GrahamC

Shame they couldn't have the 'five times then it's screwed' counter as
for floppies.

I had one CD drive which would go into very high speed if it went into
a sulk. The first time I pushed the tray button I didn't realise the
CD was still spinning, went to pick it up by the centre hole and the
thing shot off and hit the wall causing the CD some damage. When
having contacted a technician for the company, he refused to think
that there should be some safety device linked to the CD eject button
and the drive circuitry and that he felt it was something the computer
should have mastery of. I told him that the drive had since gone to
landfill, it was that useful.

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

In article , Richard Brooks
writes

I had one CD drive which would go into very high speed if it went into
a sulk. The first time I pushed the tray button I didn't realise the
CD was still spinning, went to pick it up by the centre hole and the
thing shot off and hit the wall causing the CD some damage. When
having contacted a technician for the company, he refused to think that
there should be some safety device linked to the CD eject button and
the drive circuitry and that he felt it was something the computer
should have mastery of. I told him that the drive had since gone to
landfill, it was that useful.

That is caused by mal-adjustment of the tracking and speed control of
the CD drive itself. I have both a rack mounted and portable audio CD
players which used to do exactly the same thing. I managed to locate a
service manual for one of them which described how to correctly adjust 4
pots inside, using a test disc. Although I didn't have a test CD, I
managed to make the appropriate adjustments using a standard audio CD
and it didn't do it again. Fortunately the pots and test points were
labelled exactly the same on the circuit of the other drive, so I made
the same adjustments and fixed that too.

I agree that the software should be tolerant of such faults occurring.
This would, however, seem to be the opposite of what has been discussed
so far in this thread - software monitoring for a hardware failure
rather than vice versa. ;-)
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

In article , brightside S9
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:01:14 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


Witness also the shabby designs (in terms of *useability*) of so many
brown goods, despite often being functionally the same as items made
for many decades. Yet new models often re-commit past errors, or are
worse than the same maker's earlier examples. Often, the only think
they want to learn from previous models is what *sold* best. Not what
works best. Or they use a different design team who are clueless about
previous achievements or failures.

I remember an ad in the early 1990s for a wris****ch with date
function. The ad said that the date function would correctly handle the
lack of a leap in year 2000. It also had a 1 year guarantee.

That is an amusing case. :-) I'd guess your claim would not be under
'guarantee' if it failed to do as stated. But under the laws that require
items to be as described and fit for purpose. So far as I know, that isn't
time limited by any maker's guarantee. Not a right they can take away from
you as the buyer.

I recall a friend who was a model railway enthusiast proudly showing me the
latest loco he'd brought home from the USA. The box proudly stated
"Guaranteed for life!". :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:32:55 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , brightside S9
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:01:14 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


Witness also the shabby designs (in terms of *useability*) of so many
brown goods, despite often being functionally the same as items made
for many decades. Yet new models often re-commit past errors, or are
worse than the same maker's earlier examples. Often, the only think
they want to learn from previous models is what *sold* best. Not what
works best. Or they use a different design team who are clueless about
previous achievements or failures.

I remember an ad in the early 1990s for a wris****ch with date
function. The ad said that the date function would correctly handle the
lack of a leap in year 2000. It also had a 1 year guarantee.

That is an amusing case. :-) I'd guess your claim would not be under
'guarantee' if it failed to do as stated. But under the laws that require
items to be as described and fit for purpose. So far as I know, that isn't
time limited by any maker's guarantee. Not a right they can take away from
you as the buyer.

But it is time limited by law. Six years is the maximum period.

I recall a friend who was a model railway enthusiast proudly showing me the
latest loco he'd brought home from the USA. The box proudly stated
"Guaranteed for life!". :-)

I've seen this too. So they're guaranteed until they break.


--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

In article , Mark
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:32:55 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


That is an amusing case. :-) I'd guess your claim would not be under
'guarantee' if it failed to do as stated. But under the laws that
require items to be as described and fit for purpose. So far as I know,
that isn't time limited by any maker's guarantee. Not a right they can
take away from you as the buyer.

But it is time limited by law. Six years is the maximum period.

Sorry, what is it that are you saying is "time limited by law" (and which
"law" since I'm not in England)?

Are you saying that if the item turned out not to be as described when
sold, or has a design/manufacturing flaw you can't do anything about that
after six years? if so that is news to me. I know that items are supposed
to work or be repairable for up to that sort of time. But that is a
different matter. So far as I know, the points I made are nothing to do
with any warranty or guarantee as such.

I recall a friend who was a model railway enthusiast proudly showing me
the latest loco he'd brought home from the USA. The box proudly stated
"Guaranteed for life!". :-)

I've seen this too. So they're guaranteed until they break.

Who says so? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

In message , Mark
wrote

Unfortunately this would not be very useful if the device was a PVR.

Topfield thought it was a good idea to lose the time (clock) when the
PVR was switched off at the mains and when it was switched back on again
to default to going into standby mode - which didn't get the time from
broadcast information. Result, the PVR didn't wake up to record after a
mains power supply glitch. Luckily third party bug fix patches have
cured this problem.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Why do we have to keep rebooting things?
 

On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 15:55:50 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , Mark
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:32:55 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


That is an amusing case. :-) I'd guess your claim would not be under
'guarantee' if it failed to do as stated. But under the laws that
require items to be as described and fit for purpose. So far as I know,
that isn't time limited by any maker's guarantee. Not a right they can
take away from you as the buyer.

But it is time limited by law. Six years is the maximum period.

Sorry, what is it that are you saying is "time limited by law" (and which
"law" since I'm not in England)?

Are you saying that if the item turned out not to be as described when
sold, or has a design/manufacturing flaw you can't do anything about that
after six years? if so that is news to me. I know that items are supposed
to work or be repairable for up to that sort of time. But that is a
different matter. So far as I know, the points I made are nothing to do
with any warranty or guarantee as such.

In England 6 years is the maximum time period in which you can claim
for a design/manufacturing flaw (in Scotland it's 5 years). I don't
know which law this is but it definitely exists.
This does not mean that all products have to last 6 years. This
depends on the original purchase price and what the item is.
Your legal rights are always against the retailer who sold you the
product.

A manufacturer can put pretty much whatever they want in a
warranty/guarantee.

Good article on consumer law are he
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006....howtocomplain
and he
http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/cons...page38311.html
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.