Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

On 30/09/2010 23:11, Steve Thackery wrote:
Andy Champ wrote:

It's in my job title. But then, I'm in software... and I too think
Engineers (those who exercise their ingenuity, same root) are
undervalued.

To be an Engineer-with-a-capital-E don't you have to be a qualified
member of one of their professional bodies? Like MIMechE, CEng, etc?


Engineer isn't a controlled term. The post-nominals are - like the
architect's RIBA, the MIMechE and C.Eng you mention, and others like
MBCS. Even those of us who have bachelor's degrees and get to stick BA
or BSc after our names. I think there are legal penalties for misuse;
certainly claiming when you haven't is fraud. (so Google tells me)

Andy

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

"Peter Duncanson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:22:38 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:53:29 +0100 tony sayer wrote:
tell anyone that your Son's off to Cambridge to study Law, Medicine or
accounting then fine .. all's as it ought be but mention Engineering
then its all despair and ...

.... "where did we go wrong with our Son" ...

Depends on the family. If the parents are thick arts graduates
themselves then perhaps, but in general I think engineers are well
respected in this country by the general populous, if not by the
(generally arts grad) ruling classes.

My impression is that the general (non science/engineering) population may
well have a high regard for Engineers like Brunel. But are generally
unware
of any of the engineering that goes into modern items. Things like mobile
phones or digital TV are simple taken as being 'magic' produced by fairies
in a cave far away. Anyone who actually understands such things is assumed
to be 'odd'... mind you, they may have a point, there. :-]

I can't think of any quotable quotes offhand but there is a tendency in
the British media to say that scientists are responsible for
technological developments.

I recall that in 1969 some parts of the British news media referred to
scientists as having designed and constructed the rocket and space
modules used to get men on to the surface of the moon and back.

So why so people talk about 'rocket science' (usually in the negative)
rather than 'rocket engineering'?

--
Max Demian

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

In article , Jim Lesurf
writes
In article , Peter Duncanson
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:22:38 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


My impression is that the general (non science/engineering) population
may well have a high regard for Engineers like Brunel. But are
generally unware of any of the engineering that goes into modern items.
Things like mobile phones or digital TV are simple taken as being
'magic' produced by fairies in a cave far away. Anyone who actually
understands such things is assumed to be 'odd'... mind you, they may
have a point, there. :-]

I can't think of any quotable quotes offhand but there is a tendency in
the British media to say that scientists are responsible for
technological developments.

Yes, that is also my impression. There is a general behaviour of confusing
'science' and 'technology',

Not at the BBC though. Their web site separates "technology" from
"science" which is linked with "environment", reflecting BBC policy that
real scientists are all paid up members of the IPCC. ;-)
--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's ****ed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:27:16 +0100, Kennedy McEwen
wrote:

In article , Jim Lesurf
writes
In article , Peter Duncanson
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:22:38 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


My impression is that the general (non science/engineering) population
may well have a high regard for Engineers like Brunel. But are
generally unware of any of the engineering that goes into modern items.
Things like mobile phones or digital TV are simple taken as being
'magic' produced by fairies in a cave far away. Anyone who actually
understands such things is assumed to be 'odd'... mind you, they may
have a point, there. :-]

I can't think of any quotable quotes offhand but there is a tendency in
the British media to say that scientists are responsible for
technological developments.

Yes, that is also my impression. There is a general behaviour of confusing
'science' and 'technology',

Not at the BBC though. Their web site separates "technology" from
"science"

I wonder who they think is responsible for the creation (design) of
"technology", scientists or engineers?

which is linked with "environment", reflecting BBC policy that
real scientists are all paid up members of the IPCC. ;-)

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

On Sat, 02 Oct 2010 13:18:15 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Sat, 2 Oct 2010 12:27:16 +0100, Kennedy McEwen
wrote:

In article , Jim Lesurf
writes
In article , Peter Duncanson
wrote:
On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 12:22:38 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


My impression is that the general (non science/engineering) population
may well have a high regard for Engineers like Brunel. But are
generally unware of any of the engineering that goes into modern items.
Things like mobile phones or digital TV are simple taken as being
'magic' produced by fairies in a cave far away. Anyone who actually
understands such things is assumed to be 'odd'... mind you, they may
have a point, there. :-]

I can't think of any quotable quotes offhand but there is a tendency in
the British media to say that scientists are responsible for
technological developments.

Yes, that is also my impression. There is a general behaviour of confusing
'science' and 'technology',

Not at the BBC though. Their web site separates "technology" from
"science"

True, but such is their scorn for technology that it's hidden in the
depths of their website. You have to go down 3 layers to get to Technology
News and they don't even think it's worth letting people have on their
customised front page.

I wonder who they think is responsible for the creation (design) of
"technology", scientists or engineers?

I doubt most ordinary people are aware of or care about any distinction.
In their minds the film/TV cliches are true: they all wear white
coats, have no social skills, mess around with test tubes full of coloured
liquids and would accidentally blow up the world unless kept firmly
under control.
In this country none of the media, and consequently the public, have
any appreciation of intangible or abstract (in the non-artistic sense)
knowledge or assets. I don't know if this is due to bias, genuine ignorance
or simply pandering to horde. Whatever the reason it's probably the single
biggest weakness that we, as a country, have.


--
http://www.thisreallyismyhost.99k.or...3513813283.php

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
My impression is that the general (non science/engineering) population may
well have a high regard for Engineers like Brunel. But are generally
unware
of any of the engineering that goes into modern items. Things like mobile
phones or digital TV are simple taken as being 'magic' produced by fairies
in a cave far away. Anyone who actually understands such things is assumed
to be 'odd'... mind you, they may have a point, there. :-]

I don't think I would mind too much about being described as working in a
cave. Much of the work I did on Digital TV was done in windowless rooms full
of equipment that could have quite easily been caves. However while 'odd'
is debatable I really wouldn't want to be described as a fairy :).

As part of the reorganisation that culminated in the closure of BBC R&D at
Kingswood and the migrations of survivors (of which I wasn't) to London &
Manchester was having our job titles changed from "Engineer" to
"Technologist". I was very unhappy about this having spent a lot of effort
earlier in my career into working up from an apprentice. When I left school
at 16 I wanted to be a design engineer and although it took around 15 years
I was very proud to get there.

Glyn

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember MartinR
saying something like:

Engineer should be a protected term, like doctor or barrister.

Bog off.

Engineers are undervalued in the UK
 

On 01/10/2010 23:53, Max Demian wrote:

So why so people talk about 'rocket science' (usually in the negative)
rather than 'rocket engineering'?


Beats me. Rocket science is pretty easy - throw something hot fast that
way and you go this way. That's all.

Rocket engineering - getting to do it reliably, for long periods, with
minimum fuel, without melting... THAT's hard.

Andy