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Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
In article , charles
scribeth thus In article , Nick Le Lievre wrote: "charles" wrote in message ... I think you misuse the word "designed". a few weeks ago, you knew nothing about reception - now you're an expert. Remarkable facility - Wikepedia. I am not an expert but these things are manufactured, not by the installers but by satellite equipment makers, so if you want to blame anyone blame them. that statement shows just how little you know about teh subject. Quite... -- Tony Sayer |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message
... "charles" wrote in message ... Does anyone of them light a spark in your memory... sorry no. but looking at Google Maps, I reckon they were somewhere off the Bagot or Longueville Road - on the right after coming out of the tunnel. Possibly Miladi Farm Estate. Telefitters are 19 Green Road, St Clement that is on the right after coming out of the Tunnel, could it be them your thinking of? I know the Jersey Homes Trust now use Telefitters for maintenance of the IRS system where my mother lives after Digital Communication Systems dissapeared. Sorry Green Street is right after the Tunnel, Green Road is a bit further on you can see it on a map here http://www.localoctopus.co.uk/jersey...ers-jersey-ltd |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Sunday, August 8th, 2010 at 18:01:31h +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote:
I don't think they need that sort of fundamental maths and physics, just some figures that can be fed into a standard formula. True -- but somebody with some knowledge of engineering (mathematics plus physics) has to create those standard formulae. In fact, does not the modern up to date antenna installer have a software program on their PC on which they virtually place the elements on the pole and it calculates the necessary thickness and diameter of the pole, and the required fixings and necessary size of the wall bolts etc? ;) |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
J G Miller wrote:
On Sunday, August 8th, 2010 at 18:01:31h +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: I don't think they need that sort of fundamental maths and physics, just some figures that can be fed into a standard formula. True -- but somebody with some knowledge of engineering (mathematics plus physics) has to create those standard formulae. In fact, does not the modern up to date antenna installer have a software program on their PC on which they virtually place the elements on the pole and it calculates the necessary thickness and diameter of the pole, and the required fixings and necessary size of the wall bolts etc? ;) I think you'll find some use something much simpler; experience. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. www.paras.org.uk |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
Nick Le Lievre wrote:
"charles" wrote in message ... I think you misuse the word "designed". a few weeks ago, you knew nothing about reception - now you're an expert. Remarkable facility - Wikepedia. I am not an expert but these things are manufactured, not by the installers but by satellite equipment makers, so if you want to blame anyone blame them. Now you're just talking out of your arse. -- Adrian |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
In article , Nick Le Lievre
wrote: "charles" wrote in message ... Does anyone of them light a spark in your memory... sorry no. but looking at Google Maps, I reckon they were somewhere off the Bagot or Longueville Road - on the right after coming out of the tunnel. Possibly Miladi Farm Estate. Telefitters are 19 Green Road, St Clement that is on the right after coming out of the Tunnel, could it be them your thinking of? I know the Jersey Homes Trust now use Telefitters for maintenance of the IRS system where my mother lives after Digital Communication Systems dissapeared. not that address anyhow. Looking at the satellite picture with Google maps it looks more like Le Clos Gosset. -- From KT24 Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16 |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 8, 3:08*pm, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... An accomplished aerial erector has to envision what will happen under strong wind conditions. Surely it would take a Hurricane to bring them down and as we don`t get many Hurricanes in Jersey I am not too worried. I would think any type of aeroplane would bring the aerial down in the event of a direct hit. Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 8, 3:22*pm, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: "Adrian" wrote in message om... Several people have pointed out that it is a poor installation, and their reasons for saying so. Yeah but without actually looking at it closely how can you know for sure that it is a poor installation. Looks can be deceiving. I am not qualified to comment either way and I would hope that those who have commented are qualified to comment, for instance what is your technical background? All right then. I've passed no comment so far Nick, because others have said it all, but just take my word for it, that is a **** poor installation. I can say that just by looking at the pic -- in fact I could say that if the pic had been taken from ten miles away in thick fog. And don't you worry about whether I'm qualified to judge. Just have faith. Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 8, 3:52*pm, J G Miller wrote:
On Sunday, August 8th, 2010, at 03:51:13 +0100, Steve Terry explained: An accomplished aerial erector has to envision what will happen under strong wind conditions. Surely nor just envision, but done the calculation of wind loading and thus determined the necessary size of bolts and mast to use? Yes, all aerial riggers spend weeks before every job doing the wind loading calculations. It's really important to get the size of the bolts and the mast right. Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
I just thought I'd take another look at this picture. What follows is,
of course, just my opinion, based on what the photograph appears to show. 1. If the TV aerial is looking at Fremont Point it should be a Group B, not a wideband model. 2. The TV aerial is obviously looking through the roof of the building. 3. The FM aerial is one of the very ineffective 'halos'. It should be a vertical dipole or a directional type. 4. The mast is too flimsy for the load. It is 1.5" diameter at most. This load needs a 2" scaffold tube. Assuming the mast is thin walled aluminium or steel the stress between the dish and the top wall bracket could eventually break or bend it. 5. The dish is too high on the mast. 6. The location has been badly chosen (although there could have been constraints). As well as the aerial being screened by the roof there's probably been a problem with the dish being screened by the other roof, otherwise it could be lower. The installer probably hasn't put any thought into it. 7. The wall brackets are too close together. 8. The wall brackets allow only one fixing on each foot. Two is a safer minimum for this load. 9. The material under the rendering is likely to be blockwork, which is unlikely to provide a secure fixing. 10. It's very likely, looking at the building style, that the masonry stops level with the plastic underdrawing. This means that the top bracket fixings have no masonry load above them. This normally leads to early failure. 11. The TV and FM aerials are diplexed at the masthead. This is bad practice for a number of reasons. The installation is typical of many erected for distribution systems in the last few years. It's a sad state of affairs. We spend a lot of time repairing installations like this. Often the installation has failed in the first few months or years. Many of the ones shown in the www.wrightsaerial.tv Rogues Gallery are like this. Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message
... "Steve Terry" wrote in message ... An accomplished aerial erector has to envision what will happen under strong wind conditions. Surely it would take a Hurricane to bring them down and as we don`t get many Hurricanes in Jersey I am not too worried. If you look around at other Aerial/Satellite erections on other buildings they don`t look any less susceptible to strong winds. It looks to me like a standard installation not any worse then many others. No, i meant a strong wind would move that installation back and forth more than enough to put the dish in and out of alignment. A dish must be fixed to an unmoveable mount. In this case the dish should have been on a separate short heavy pole and mount, or wall bracket. Steve Terry -- Welcome Sign-up Bonus of £1 when you signup free at: http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/G4WWK |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
" wrote in message
... The installation is typical of many erected for distribution systems in the last few years. It's a sad state of affairs. We spend a lot of time repairing installations like this. Often the installation has failed in the first few months or years. Many of the ones shown in the www.wrightsaerial.tv Rogues Gallery are like this. Thank you for taking the time to provide your opinion, as you are a qualified satellite installer I do take your comments with more then a pinch of salt. The only thing is that mast 1 is not pointing at the roof, if you look at it on the same level its actually clearing the roof. I can provide a photo if you like from my living room window which shows this quite clearly. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Adrian" wrote in message
om... I am not an expert but these things are manufactured, not by the installers but by satellite equipment makers, so if you want to blame anyone blame them. Now you're just talking out of your arse. I`m learning all the time, I thought these things came as a set, ie you had the aerial, fm aerial, pole and satellite dish all ready to erect together but obviously as has been pointed out this is not the case, the only reason why I think they used such a thin pole is so that it as least visible as possible which would appeal to the customer. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Mike Henry" wrote in message
... No I am entitled to have the opinion that they will provide years of solid service If that's the case why did you ask for expert opinion if you were just going to ignore it? I was waiting for someone of Bill Wrights standing to provide comment as I know I can trust his opinion, now that he has and has agreed with what has previously been said then I concede that it is a poor installation. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
" wrote in message
... On Aug 8, 3:08 pm, "Nick Le Lievre" Surely it would take a Hurricane to bring them down and as we don`t get many Hurricanes in Jersey I am not too worried. I would think any type of aeroplane would bring the aerial down in the event of a direct hit. lol |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
" wrote in message
... On Aug 8, 3:22 pm, "Nick Le Lievre" All right then. I've passed no comment so far Nick, because others have said it all, but just take my word for it, that is a **** poor installation. I can say that just by looking at the pic -- in fact I could say that if the pic had been taken from ten miles away in thick fog. And don't you worry about whether I'm qualified to judge. Just have faith. Thanks for confirming other people`s opinions, I look up to you Bill you are almost God like around here I was wondering why you had not expressed an opinion so far and thought that was probably because you had more important things to do. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:17:37 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote: On Sunday, August 8th, 2010 at 18:01:31h +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: I don't think they need that sort of fundamental maths and physics, just some figures that can be fed into a standard formula. True -- but somebody with some knowledge of engineering (mathematics plus physics) has to create those standard formulae. In fact, does not the modern up to date antenna installer have a software program on their PC on which they virtually place the elements on the pole and it calculates the necessary thickness and diameter of the pole, and the required fixings and necessary size of the wall bolts etc? ;) There should be an iPhone app for that. -- Peter Duncanson (in uk.tech.digital-tv) |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message
... " wrote in message ... The only thing is that mast 1 is not pointing at the roof, if you look at it on the same level its actually clearing the roof. I can provide a photo if you like from my living room window which shows this quite clearly. FWIW here is the photo showing the Aerial clearing the roof http://user.itl.net/~nlel/aerial4.JPG |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
le lundi, 9 aout, 2010 á 15:19:01 +0100, Nick Le Lievre a écrit:
FWIW here is the photo showing the Aerial clearing the roof http://user.itl.net/~nlel/aerial4.JPG So the useless VHF halo antenna is still shielded from that direction by the roof and its contents. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"J G Miller" wrote in message
... le lundi, 9 aout, 2010 á 15:19:01 +0100, Nick Le Lievre a écrit: FWIW here is the photo showing the Aerial clearing the roof http://user.itl.net/~nlel/aerial4.JPG So the useless VHF halo antenna is still shielded from that direction by the roof and its contents. I guess there were constraints about exactly where they could erect the mast, in order for it to be in the required spot to make the whole project feasible. I guess they could not just put it in the most ideal place because connecting it up might then be ten times more difficult going down that route. They must of surveyed the estate and decided that 2 masts were required and that these were the best place to put them. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 17:56:16 +0100, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: I guess there were constraints about exactly where they could erect the mast, in order for it to be in the required spot to make the whole project feasible. I guess they could not just put it in the most ideal place because connecting it up might then be ten times more difficult going down that route. They must of surveyed the estate and decided that 2 masts were required and that these were the best place to put them. As you say, guesswork. Why are you so keen to defend the integrity of this bodge? -- Alan White Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent. Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland. Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Alan White" wrote in message
... As you say, guesswork. Why are you so keen to defend the integrity of this bodge? Not really trying to defend them just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Mike Henry" wrote in message
... That's the point: they must have been idiots (we already know this from the previous discussion) if they thought for a microsecond that it was the best place to put them. So, installed in the wrong place, and installed badly as well. Way to go! You have my sympathy :-( Its not like its a new development when you can plan and install the system as its being built, these flats have been lived in for some 14 years now, fitting the IRS system to the estate as an afterthought might be more complicated then it seems. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Mike Henry" wrote in message
... Jeez. There is no doubt. It's a ****poor job. Bill and others said so. Case closed. As long as the system works then I don`t care if its not the most perfect job that could ever be done. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Mike Henry" wrote in message
... In , "Nick Le Lievre" People like Bill (and the other people whose opinions you sought but were then so quick to dismiss) do it all the time. It's just that the people who did it at your place have obviously done a ****poor job. As long as the system works then I don`t really care if its a **** poor job. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
Nick Le Lievre wrote:
"J G Miller" wrote in message ... le lundi, 9 aout, 2010 á 15:19:01 +0100, Nick Le Lievre a écrit: FWIW here is the photo showing the Aerial clearing the roof http://user.itl.net/~nlel/aerial4.JPG So the useless VHF halo antenna is still shielded from that direction by the roof and its contents. I guess there were constraints about exactly where they could erect the mast, in order for it to be in the required spot to make the whole project feasible. I guess they could not just put it in the most ideal place because connecting it up might then be ten times more difficult going down that route. They must of surveyed the estate and decided that 2 masts were required and that these were the best place to put them. I'm surprised you're still making excuses for the installers shoddy workmanship. -- Adrian |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Adrian" wrote in message
om... I'm surprised you're still making excuses for the installers shoddy workmanship. Like I said I don`t really care, its not on my conscious. If it comes down after a few months/years it is not my job to put it back up, and I guess they will have to leave with it at least working. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Nick Le Lievre" wrote in message
... "Adrian" wrote in message om... I'm surprised you're still making excuses for the installers shoddy workmanship. Like I said I don`t really care, its not on my conscious. If it comes down after a few months/years it is not my job to put it back up, and I guess they will have to leave with it at least working. So you don't care that reliable satellite reception is unlikely in windy conditions? Steve Terry -- Welcome Sign-up Bonus of £1 when you signup free at: http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/G4WWK |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Steve Terry" wrote in message
... Like I said I don`t really care, its not on my conscious. If it comes down after a few months/years it is not my job to put it back up, and I guess they will have to leave with it at least working. So you don't care that reliable satellite reception is unlikely in windy conditions? Yes Sir! I do but we will just have to see what happens, if we get a poor reception in windy conditions I am sure I won`t be the only one to complain, then they will have to come back and sort it. Lets just see what happens first. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:51:59 +0100, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: Thank you for taking the time to provide your opinion, as you are a qualified satellite installer I do take your comments with more then a pinch of salt. While I can understand your excitement at receiving a critique from a 'qualified satellite installer', most of the other people in this thread who also criticised this installation are all (ex)professionals in some field of broadcast engineering and know what they're talking about. The fact that you dismissed these criticisms as you did I find mildly offensive. Perhaps a small apology? -- Alan White Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent. Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland. Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Alan White" wrote in message
... The fact that you dismissed these criticisms as you did I find mildly offensive. Perhaps a small apology? Yeah Sorry, No offence intended, I do not know the people on this group very well but I knew that Bill Wright was a professional. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
"Mike Henry" wrote in message
As long as the system works then I don`t care if its not the most perfect job that could ever be done. So why bother asking for opinions here? All I asked in the first instance was, is does this look like an IRS Mast. The simple is was yes it does but I could/did find that out from looking at wikipedia. The comments about the competence of the installation crew were interesting but not necessarily asked for. Sorry if you were offended in anyway. |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Monday, August 9th, 2010 at 18:35:46h +0100, Adrian pondered:
I'm surprised you're still making excuses for the installers shoddy workmanship. You forget that in Jersey, it does not "pay to criticize". QUOTE “If you don't like it, there's always a boat in the morning.†UNQUOTE |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 9, 10:19*am, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: " wrote in message ... On Aug 8, 3:22 pm, "Nick Le Lievre" All right then. I've passed no comment so far Nick, because others have said it all, but just take my word for it, that is a **** poor installation. I can say that just by looking at the pic -- in fact I could say that if the pic had been taken from ten miles away in thick fog. And don't you worry about whether I'm qualified to judge. Just have faith. Thanks for confirming other people`s opinions, I look up to you Bill you are almost God like around here I hope not. I'm an aerial rigger who is here primarily to learn from other contributors. A lot of people round here regard me as the Devil Incarnate, but as far as I know none regard me as God. I was wondering why you had not expressed an opinion so far and thought that was probably because you had more important things to do. No it was because others had said everything that was neccesary. I only put my twopennorth in because the thing seemed to be going round in circles. By the way the aerial needs to do better than merely clear the ridge, because of fresnel effects. Bill Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 9, 3:19*pm, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: "Nick Le Lievre" wrote in ... " wrote in message .... The only thing is that mast 1 is not pointing at the roof, if you look at it on the same level its actually clearing the roof. I can provide a photo if you like from my living room window which shows this quite clearly. FWIW here is the photo showing the Aerial clearing the roofhttp://user.itl.net/~nlel/aerial4.JPG It's marginal. It's too low. It needs to have about 600mm clear below its sight line at that distance before you can be certain there won't be untoward effects from the roof. Strange but true. When you lift an aerial (by pushing the mast up through the brackets) to roof screening effects don't stop 'just like that'. Funny innit? Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 9, 6:26*pm, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: "Mike Henry" wrote in message ... Jeez. There is no doubt. It's a ****poor job. Bill and others said so. Case closed. As long as the system works then I don`t care if its not the most perfect job that could ever be done. That's what's wrong with this country. Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Aug 9, 7:44*pm, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: "Alan White" wrote in message ... The fact that you dismissed these criticisms as you did I find mildly offensive. Perhaps a small apology? Yeah Sorry, No offence intended, I do not know the people on this group very well but I knew that Bill Wright was a professional. Well you know there are other aerial installers here, and as I said, I kept quiet for ages because they had all said everything that was necessary. Bill |
Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
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Does this look like an IRS Aerial/Satellite
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 19:44:31 +0100, "Nick Le Lievre"
wrote: Yeah Sorry, No offence intended, I do not know the people on this group very well but I knew that Bill Wright was a professional. :-) -- Alan White Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent. Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland. Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.co.uk/weather |
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