9200T going for landfill
 

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill. It has been playing up
for a while with the problems already mentioned. Plus it has
occasionally renamed recorded programs to another totally unrelated
prog' giving the impression that it hasn't recorded the one I wanted.

BUT tonight it failed to record Dr Who so it is with no sadness that it
is to be replaced, it has had enough chances and has finally blown it.

Does any one have any recommendations for a replacement that will still
have manufacturers back up a couple of years down the line? Yes I know
it can never be guaranteed but surely some must be more caring of their
customers than others.

--
Bill
( A different one )

9200T going for landfill
 

On Apr 17, 9:46*pm, Bill wrote:
Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill. *It has been playing up
for a while with the problems already mentioned. *Plus it has
occasionally renamed recorded programs to another totally unrelated
prog' giving the impression that it hasn't recorded the one I wanted.

BUT tonight it failed to record Dr Who so it is with no sadness that it
is to be replaced, it has had enough chances and has finally blown it.

Does any one have any recommendations for a replacement that will still
have manufacturers back up a couple of years down the line? *Yes I know
it can never be guaranteed but surely some must be more caring of their
customers than others.

--
Bill
( A different one )

My digihome PVR ( vestel T825) also failed to record Dr. Who, I think
that's the first time a recording has failed in 9 months.

9200T going for landfill
 

Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old [1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is that the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash if you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1] acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20
--
Robin
PM may be sent to

9200T going for landfill
 

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Not sure what was going on list night, I'd swear Dr who was on at a
different timw to that mentioned earlier, then bbc three changed all
their times and replaced one program with a totally different one. I
listen to so little tv these days, but when I do I often find that so
called published times are rubbish. Not having any acces to the epg as
yet, its all down to web sites. Brian

snip

Bloody Tardis has time shifted the EPG again

Steve Terry
--
Get a free Three 3pay Sim with £2 bonus after £10 top up
http://freeagent.three.co.uk/stand/view/id/5276

9200T going for landfill
 

In message , Robin
writes
Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old [1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is that the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash if you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1] acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20

Only semi joking Robin, It has given me years of good service, hard
drive replaced a year ago but otherwise OK.
It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for what
it had recorded, most weird.
Then it went on to have the slow response to the remote problem, this I
could live with but NOT with it missing Dr Who!!!!!

Interesting to note others seem to have had this problem with Dr Who,
your comments have saved it for today, I'll see what it does for the
rest of the week.

I would not wish to give it to any one, hardly seems fair to give what I
feel is a faulty unit to someone else who presumably has little
experience of these things.
--
Bill

9200T going for landfill
 

"Bill" wrote in message
...

It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for what it
had recorded, most weird.

Hey, Bill, I've had that problem on two 9200s now. Oh, and I seem to
remember each recording getting two entries in the list. I fixed it by
doing a full reset. That is, by selecting the "Factory Settings" option (or
whatever it's called). It seems to give it a good clear out - setting all
the options to default and rescanning everything.

Actually, in truth I may have formatted the hard disk, too. I honestly
can't remember. If you can live with losing the recordings you've got on
the disk, it may well be worth trying. Anyway, it cured mine. After that
they behaved themselves.

Then it went on to have the slow response to the remote problem, this I
could live with but NOT with it missing Dr Who!!!!!

I'm glad you can live with it - I find it intolerable after it's been
switched on a while. The only reason I haven't taken mine down the dump -
as you were considering - is that I've got a Hummy Freesat HD-R as well,
which works great (apart from the usual under-powered processor), so I can
meet most of my needs just using that.

If I only had Freeview, I think I'd have taken drastic action by now (you
know, the sledgehammer kind of action).

SteveT

9200T going for landfill
 

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Robin
writes
Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old [1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is that the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash if you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1] acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20

Only semi joking Robin, It has given me years of good service, hard drive
replaced a year ago but otherwise OK.
It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for what it
had recorded, most weird.

Have you tried reformatting the HD for this?

--
Max Demian

9200T going for landfill
 

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:46:33 +0100, Bill
wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill. It has been playing up
for a while with the problems already mentioned. Plus it has
occasionally renamed recorded programs to another totally unrelated
prog' giving the impression that it hasn't recorded the one I wanted.

BUT tonight it failed to record Dr Who so it is with no sadness that it
is to be replaced, it has had enough chances and has finally blown it.

Does any one have any recommendations for a replacement that will still
have manufacturers back up a couple of years down the line? Yes I know
it can never be guaranteed but surely some must be more caring of their
customers than others.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php

worth a read, though I'm not sure what I'll do when my ever reliable
5800 turns up its toes

9200T going for landfill
 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:48:23 +0100, "Steve Thackery"
wrote:

If I only had Freeview, I think I'd have taken drastic action by now (you
know, the sledgehammer kind of action).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AV9IcxM6XA

9200T going for landfill
 

In message , Albert Ross
wrote
Does any one have any recommendations for a replacement that will still
have manufacturers back up a couple of years down the line? Yes I know
it can never be guaranteed but surely some must be more caring of their
customers than others.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php

worth a read, though I'm not sure what I'll do when my ever reliable
5800 turns up its toes

The Topfield is not supported by the manufacturer with regards
software/firmware. Their last effort at Freeview+ is over a year old,
it's as buggy as hell and not a single bug fix in site.

It's only third party bug fixes and third party software that make the
Topfield usable. It's unlikely that any future boxes from the same
manufacturer, under other brand names, will have the same level of
functionality and therefore users will be stuck with a box that may not
work soon after they purchase it.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

9200T going for landfill
 

You might want to avoid the Icecrypt brand too, as I think that is Topfield
by another name. Mind you, I also have my own alternative names for
Topfield!!


"Alan" wrote in message
...

The Topfield is not supported by the manufacturer with regards
software/firmware. Their last effort at Freeview+ is over a year old,
it's as buggy as hell and not a single bug fix in site.

It's only third party bug fixes and third party software that make the
Topfield usable. It's unlikely that any future boxes from the same
manufacturer, under other brand names, will have the same level of
functionality and therefore users will be stuck with a box that may not
work soon after they purchase it.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk


In message , Albert Ross
wrote
Does any one have any recommendations for a replacement that will still
have manufacturers back up a couple of years down the line? Yes I know
it can never be guaranteed but surely some must be more caring of their
customers than others.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php

worth a read, though I'm not sure what I'll do when my ever reliable
5800 turns up its toes

9200T going for landfill
 

Bill wrote:
In message , Robin
writes
Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old [1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is that the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash if you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1] acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20

Only semi joking Robin, It has given me years of good service, hard
drive replaced a year ago but otherwise OK.
It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for what
it had recorded, most weird.
Then it went on to have the slow response to the remote problem, this I
could live with but NOT with it missing Dr Who!!!!!

Interesting to note others seem to have had this problem with Dr Who,
your comments have saved it for today, I'll see what it does for the
rest of the week.

I would not wish to give it to any one, hardly seems fair to give what I
feel is a faulty unit to someone else who presumably has little
experience of these things.

Well, by and large my Sony Freeview HDD recorders have given me sterling
service for a number of years. The only downside to these boxen is the
single digital tuner. My older Panasonic Freeview DVD recorders have
also been OK, but again, only have a single tuner.

I'm now holding out for the new round of dual-tuner Freeview HD boxes
from the likes of Panasonic and Toshiba. I've always been impressed with
Humax kit but it always seems like one box or another needs a firmware
update to fix a problem of some sort. My Sony recorders haven't had a
firmware update for several years but thus far seem to be soldiering-on
without me worrying about them, which of course is why I bought them in
the first place.

HTH


Clem

9200T going for landfill
 

"Max Demian" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Robin

writes
Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old
[1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is that
the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash if
you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1]
acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20

Only semi joking Robin, It has given me years of good service, hard
drive
replaced a year ago but otherwise OK.
It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it
would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd
non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for
what it
had recorded, most weird.

Have you tried reformatting the HD for this?


When my HD failed while looked for an alternative I put in a smaller
disk. This seemed to accentuate filesystem issues, etc. Then after
putting on a much much larger disk the problems magically went away.
I've not reformatted for over a year. All I get now is the slow down and
scheduled recordings tend to disappear after a while. I would say that
keeping. The used space below 50% helps keep my Hummy happy.

Graham

9200T going for landfill
 

When my HD failed while looked for an alternative I put in a smaller
disk. This seemed to accentuate filesystem issues, etc. Then after
putting on a much much larger disk the problems magically went away.
I've not reformatted for over a year. All I get now is the slow down and
scheduled recordings tend to disappear after a while. I would say that
keeping. The used space below 50% helps keep my Hummy happy.

Interesting you mention scheduled recordings because I've noticed that
recently. Never had this problem before but for the last couple of months
we've started noticing scheduled recordings just vanish, for no apparent
reason.

Paul DS.

9200T going for landfill
 

"Graham" wrote in message
...
"Max Demian" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Robin

writes
Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old
[1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is that
the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash if
you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1]
acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20

Only semi joking Robin, It has given me years of good service, hard
drive
replaced a year ago but otherwise OK.
It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it
would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd
non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for
what it
had recorded, most weird.

Have you tried reformatting the HD for this?

When my HD failed while looked for an alternative I put in a smaller
disk. This seemed to accentuate filesystem issues, etc. Then after
putting on a much much larger disk the problems magically went away.
I've not reformatted for over a year. All I get now is the slow down and
scheduled recordings tend to disappear after a while. I would say that
keeping. The used space below 50% helps keep my Hummy happy.

Maybe you fitted the wrong kind of HD. The Humax is rather fussy.

--
Max Demian

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Bill
writes

It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis for what
it had recorded, most weird.

It's probably bad caps in the power supply. 15 mins max to fix it.

--
Mike Tomlinson

9200T going for landfill
 

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Albert Ross
saying something like:

If I only had Freeview, I think I'd have taken drastic action by now (you
know, the sledgehammer kind of action).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AV9IcxM6XA

You'd want to keep your feet clear. :)

9200T going for landfill
 

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

It's probably bad caps in the power supply. 15 mins max to fix it.

Was this written as a joke? I only ask because - of course - it could be
loads of things (including noise on the 5V/12V lines), and it's probably a
bit "previous" to say what the fault "probably" is at this stage! :-)

SteveT

9200T going for landfill
 

The message
from "Steve Thackery" contains these words:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

It's probably bad caps in the power supply. 15 mins max to fix it.

Was this written as a joke? I only ask because - of course - it could be
loads of things (including noise on the 5V/12V lines), and it's probably a
bit "previous" to say what the fault "probably" is at this stage! :-)

"Bad Caps" is a pretty common failure in most electronic kit. It's been
the bane of PC motherboards for the past 15 years or so and it's, in
this case, "(including noise on the 5V/12V lines)" the most likely cause
(the alternative of inductors developing shorted turns is significantly
less probable[1]).

Although capacitor failure (electrolytic) is not good, it does have the
charm that it can _usually_ be spotted by close inspection with the MK1
eyeball (and a magnifying glass to be certain of those that, at first
glance, appear ok) and are also about the only component that can be
readily replaced by a reasonably competent amateur with moderate
soldering skills.

Whilst "it could be loads of things", these are, for most of us, beyond
our ability to identify and replace (at least not without the specialist
SMD desoldering/soldering rig/kit being to hand, along with the skills
to use such kit).

Mike's "snap diagnosis" has a very high chance of being correct. In any
case, he did use the word "probably", suggesting that, if proved true,
it was a relatively trivial repair job. If he's wrong, it's unlikely to
be economically repairable, so end of story.

[1] I'm not totally excluding other causes such as chip faults or other
obscure components, it's just even less probable and a waste of time
considering them unless you're extremely familiar with the kit and its
documented 'stock fault' history.

--
Regards, John.

Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.

9200T going for landfill
 

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:55:16 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Albert Ross
saying something like:

If I only had Freeview, I think I'd have taken drastic action by now (you
know, the sledgehammer kind of action).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AV9IcxM6XA

You'd want to keep your feet clear. :)

And your chin

9200T going for landfill
 

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 15:04:44 +0100, Alan
wrote:

In message , Albert Ross
wrote
Does any one have any recommendations for a replacement that will still
have manufacturers back up a couple of years down the line? Yes I know
it can never be guaranteed but surely some must be more caring of their
customers than others.

http://www.toppy.org.uk/index.php

worth a read, though I'm not sure what I'll do when my ever reliable
5800 turns up its toes

The Topfield is not supported by the manufacturer with regards
software/firmware. Their last effort at Freeview+ is over a year old,
it's as buggy as hell and not a single bug fix in site.

Damn, I haven't been keeping up. The original 5800 was quite usable
out of the box and I only updated the firmware a couple of times.
Played with some TAPs but by then was used to the original interface
anyway.

I knew the first edition 5810 was a bit unspecial but had assumed
they'd have mended it by now :(

It's just one of those things that sits there, does exactly what it
says on the tin and only needs a reboot a couple of times a year,
trust them to go and spoil it :(

9200T going for landfill
 

"Johnny B Good" wrote in message

[1] I'm not totally excluding other causes such as chip faults or other
obscure components, it's just even less probable and a waste of time
considering them unless you're extremely familiar with the kit and its
documented 'stock fault' history.

Yep, fair comment. I bet most faults are caused by crap software. In the
hardware department it's possibly the hard disk (which has a high MTBF but a
limited life expectancy), and then the power supply components. And I quite
agree: high frequency/high ripple current is an area (in my experience as an
electronics tech) where electrolytics seem to struggle.

Really good electrolytics can be quite expensive, so it may well be that
costs are shaved in this area (also maybe a need to keep the physical size
down).

So, although PVR software seems to be the biggest cause of reported problems
by far, IF IT IS a hardware fault I completely accept that it is "probably"
the hard disk or the power supply caps, rather than anything else.

Glad to put the record straight! :-)

SteveT

9200T going for landfill
 

In message , Albert Ross
wrote

The Topfield is not supported by the manufacturer with regards
software/firmware. Their last effort at Freeview+ is over a year old,
it's as buggy as hell and not a single bug fix in site.

Damn, I haven't been keeping up. The original 5800 was quite usable
out of the box and I only updated the firmware a couple of times.

And possibly one of those updates had very little to do with Topfield.
The ''Split NIT' bug was fixed by a customer and not Topfield.

--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Steve Thackery
wrote:

"Johnny B Good" wrote in message

[1] I'm not totally excluding other causes such as chip faults or other
obscure components, it's just even less probable and a waste of time
considering them unless you're extremely familiar with the kit and its
documented 'stock fault' history.

Yep, fair comment. I bet most faults are caused by crap software. In
the hardware department it's possibly the hard disk (which has a high
MTBF but a limited life expectancy), and then the power supply
components. And I quite agree: high frequency/high ripple current is an
area (in my experience as an electronics tech) where electrolytics seem
to struggle.

I'm sure you remember the first thing to check - drummed into me as a mtce
engineer over 40 years ago. Check the power supply.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16

9200T going for landfill
 

"charles" wrote in message
...

I'm sure you remember the first thing to check - drummed into me as a mtce
engineer over 40 years ago. Check the power supply.

Indeed, although back then we didn't have switch-mode power supplies, so
subtle problems with high frequency noise creeping onto the power rails was
less of a problem.

Interestingly, I wonder how many people remember the "secondary SMPS" which
came out before the now ubiquitous "primary SMPS".

The secondary SMPS appeared on one of the teleprinter power supplies I
worked on back in the early 80s. It had a completely traditional mains
transformer, bridge rectifier and smoothing caps, but instead of the linear
5V or 12V regulator, it used a switch-mode regulator.

Quite a good compromise, actually - just as efficient, if not more so, than
the primary SMPS, and WAY more reliable! The only disadvantage was the need
for the usual large, heavy mains transformer and smoothing caps.

The first primary SMPSs I worked on (I mean where the switching is done on
the primary side, so you can use a teeny transformer) were for the "Cheetah"
telex machine and were fabulously unreliable, and exceptionally good for
firework displays.

When they failed they'd blow the plug-top 3A fuse. When we felt in need of
some excitement in the workshop, we would plug the failed power supply into
the kettle lead (always close to hand, of course) which had a 13A fuse. The
flashes, sparks, sizzles and bangs were a marvellous way to brighten a
humdrum day. And just occasionally, a shard off the top of one of the
tantalum capacitors would fly straight through one of the air vents and
whizz across the workshop.

It probably sounds irresponsible, but there was a smidgin of sense in it.
Fault location in an SMPS can be very complicated and difficult, especially
as almost all failures of the high voltage components (such as the switching
transistors) would cause ripple failures spreading widely through the
circuit. You could end up with "circular" faults, where a failed transistor
would cause a capacitor to go short-circuit. And then the short-circuit
capacitor would blow the new transistor.

By vapourising all the faulty components in one go, at least you could see
what needed replacing. :-)

SteveT

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Johnny B Good wrote:
It's probably bad caps in the power supply. 15 mins max to fix it.

Was this written as a joke? I only ask because - of course - it could be
loads of things (including noise on the 5V/12V lines), and it's probably a
bit "previous" to say what the fault "probably" is at this stage! :-)

"Bad Caps" is a pretty common failure in most electronic kit. It's been
the bane of PC motherboards for the past 15 years or so and it's, in
this case, "(including noise on the 5V/12V lines)" the most likely cause
(the alternative of inductors developing shorted turns is significantly
less probable[1]).

Although capacitor failure (electrolytic) is not good, it does have the
charm that it can _usually_ be spotted by close inspection with the MK1
eyeball (and a magnifying glass to be certain of those that, at first
glance, appear ok) and are also about the only component that can be
readily replaced by a reasonably competent amateur with moderate
soldering skills.

I'm astonished by the number of electronic faults that are diagnosed remotely
as requiring nothing more than replacement of all the capacitors, a procedure
that with most modern circuitry would probably do more harm than good. My
approach to electronic faultfinding, reinforced by what I was taught at the BBC
many years ago, has always been to use the appropriate measuring instruments
and service manuals to diagnose the component that is actually faulty, replace
that, and leave the others alone.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

9200T going for landfill
 

In message en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart wrote

I'm astonished by the number of electronic faults that are diagnosed remotely
as requiring nothing more than replacement of all the capacitors, a procedure
that with most modern circuitry would probably do more harm than good. My
approach to electronic faultfinding, reinforced by what I was taught at
the BBC
many years ago, has always been to use the appropriate measuring instruments
and service manuals to diagnose the component that is actually faulty, replace
that, and leave the others alone.

But in some consumer electronics the evidence is from many 100s of
reported failures and a blanket instruction to replace all capacitors of
certain type results in many faults being repaired.

For instance, the Topfield 5800 of a certain age is prone to power
supply failures where the fault is usually one of six electrolytic
capacitors that have failed. A measurement of the power supply voltages
will confirm the fault. The recommended action to replace all six
capacitors has resulted in many people restoring their machines to a
fully working condition at a cost of £5 to £20. Many people reporting a
successful repair have had no previous electronics experience or
training, they have just followed the comprehensive advice given on a
user forum.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Topfield_5800/PSU_Repair


--
Alan
news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

9200T going for landfill
 

In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart scribeth
thus
In article , Johnny B Good wrote:
It's probably bad caps in the power supply. 15 mins max to fix it.

Was this written as a joke? I only ask because - of course - it could be
loads of things (including noise on the 5V/12V lines), and it's probably a
bit "previous" to say what the fault "probably" is at this stage! :-)

"Bad Caps" is a pretty common failure in most electronic kit. It's been
the bane of PC motherboards for the past 15 years or so and it's, in
this case, "(including noise on the 5V/12V lines)" the most likely cause
(the alternative of inductors developing shorted turns is significantly
less probable[1]).

Although capacitor failure (electrolytic) is not good, it does have the
charm that it can _usually_ be spotted by close inspection with the MK1
eyeball (and a magnifying glass to be certain of those that, at first
glance, appear ok) and are also about the only component that can be
readily replaced by a reasonably competent amateur with moderate
soldering skills.

I'm astonished by the number of electronic faults that are diagnosed remotely
as requiring nothing more than replacement of all the capacitors, a procedure
that with most modern circuitry would probably do more harm than good. My
approach to electronic faultfinding, reinforced by what I was taught at the BBC
many years ago, has always been to use the appropriate measuring instruments
and service manuals to diagnose the component that is actually faulty, replace
that, and leave the others alone.

Rod.

Assuming you can get service manuals .. rather difficult for most all
domestic TV AV equipment...
--
Tony Sayer

9200T going for landfill
 

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in
message

I'm astonished by the number of electronic faults that are diagnosed
remotely
as requiring nothing more than replacement of all the capacitors, a
procedure
that with most modern circuitry would probably do more harm than good. My
approach to electronic faultfinding, reinforced by what I was taught at
the BBC
many years ago, has always been to use the appropriate measuring
instruments
and service manuals to diagnose the component that is actually faulty,
replace
that, and leave the others alone.

I completely agree with you, in principle. But let me argue to other case
with this illustration.

When I was an electronics bench techie we used to get circuit boards in from
all sorts of printers and telex machines. To begin with you would set up
all the gear, and work through what was often quite a lengthy and
sophisticated faulting procedure with storage scopes, logic analysers,
in-circuit emulators, and so on.

I'm sure you must have noticed in your time at the BBC the same thing as I
did: for each particular product, the fault was almost invariably in one of
more of the same three components ("three" is just an example).

I found I might spend 20-60 minutes diagnosing, and always end up at one of
those three components.

So after a while I did the logical thing: whenever a board came it, I'd
automatically replace all three components. Their total cost was a pound or
two, and I'd saved up to a man-hour. 98% of the time it fixed the board.
If it didn't, THEN I'd power up the analogue storage scope, the Huntron
Tracker, and all that stuff.

This was especially valuable for SPMSs, which as you know can be a nightmare
to fault locate on due to the cascade failures they suffer. Faulting one of
those might take literally hours, even a couple of days. Again, I
identified a list of about 15 components, some or all of which were blown up
whenever the switching transistors went short circuit (which they did all
the damn time).

Replacing all of those probably cost £20, but I could do two an hour, rather
than one or maybe two a day.

So yes, although I see your point, there is a lot to be said for a pragmatic
approach. And I have to say that electrolytic capacitors in switched mode
power supplies do seem to be rather more prone to failure than any other
electronic component in a typical consumer product. (In the early SMPSs it
was the high voltage switching transistors, but now they are pretty well
bullet-proof and it's the capacitors which are the next-weakest link).

So there MAY be a case for just swapping the lot, as I used to do with the
teleprinter power supply components.

I'm not sure why you say it may do more harm than good. If you use the
appropriate components and the appropriate tools, there's no reason why it
should do harm.

SteveT

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Steve Thackery wrote:
I'm sure you must have noticed in your time at the BBC the same thing as I
did: for each particular product, the fault was almost invariably in one of
more of the same three components ("three" is just an example).

I found I might spend 20-60 minutes diagnosing, and always end up at one of
those three components.

So after a while I did the logical thing: whenever a board came it, I'd
automatically replace all three components. Their total cost was a pound or
two, and I'd saved up to a man-hour. 98% of the time it fixed the board.
If it didn't, THEN I'd power up the analogue storage scope, the Huntron
Tracker, and all that stuff.

Yes, I've done the same sort of thing myself if there is a recognised "stock
fault" with a particular item of equipment.

However, I'm a little suspicious that the homespun advice one sees so freely
given on the internet about the repair of electronics is nearly *always* to
replace capacitors, sometimes to replace all of them, and hardly ever
mentioning any other type of component. Capacitors can fail of course, and
electrolytics can dry up, particularly the big ones in power supplies, but it
isn't in my experience that these are the only components that ever go wrong.
Without intending any direct criticism of any individual here, I can't help
wondering how much of this internet advice has a proper pedigree traceable
back to a source based on practical experience, and how much of it is self-
reinforcing through repetition.

Regarding my "more harm than good" comment, I was thinking of modern close-
packed circuit boards, which do not in general lend themselves to frequent
component replacement, if at all. If the advice to "change all the capacitors"
is followed as freely as it is given, particularly as in many cases it will
have been sought as a cheap solution by people who don't have the means or the
knowledge to fault-find properly, it can't overall be doing any good.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

9200T going for landfill
 

"Max Demian" wrote:
"Graham" wrote in message
...
"Max Demian" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Robin

writes
Bill wrote:

Right, that's it, my 9200 is going for landfill.

I do hope you are joking about the landfill. There's lots of old
[1]
folks who need to replace their VCRs. My limited experience is
that
the
PVR9200T fits their needs nicely. I'd take it off you in a flash
if
you
were within a shout of London as I have a queue of old[1]
acquaintances.

[1] old is of course a moving target = my age + ~20

Only semi joking Robin, It has given me years of good service,
hard
drive
replaced a year ago but otherwise OK.
It then started to suffer from some very strange problem where it
would
record one program but call it something else, sometimes with odd
non UK
characters in the text. Plus it would have the wrong synopsis
for
what it
had recorded, most weird.

Have you tried reformatting the HD for this?

When my HD failed while looked for an alternative I put in a smaller
disk. This seemed to accentuate filesystem issues, etc. Then after
putting on a much much larger disk the problems magically went away.
I've not reformatted for over a year. All I get now is the slow down
and
scheduled recordings tend to disappear after a while. I would say
that
keeping. The used space below 50% helps keep my Hummy happy.

Maybe you fitted the wrong kind of HD. The Humax is rather fussy.


The disk I replaced it with was from same family of disks as the disks
fitted by Humax. Seagate streaming media or something if I recall.

Even the original 160Gb disk showed filesystem issues when more than
half was in use.

Graham

9200T going for landfill
 

In message , Graham
writes

The disk I replaced it with was from same family of disks as the disks
fitted by Humax. Seagate streaming media or something if I recall.

Even the original 160Gb disk showed filesystem issues when more than
half was in use.

Graham

Can anyone recommend a replacement HD?

--
Bill

9200T going for landfill
 

In message , Bill
writes
In message ,
Graham writes

The disk I replaced it with was from same family of disks as the disks
fitted by Humax. Seagate streaming media or something if I recall.

Even the original 160Gb disk showed filesystem issues when more than
half was in use.

Graham

Can anyone recommend a replacement HD?

http://www.humaxdirect.co.uk/product...102&cat=access
--
Ian

9200T going for landfill
 

"Ian" wrote in message
...
In message , Bill
writes
In message , Graham
writes

The disk I replaced it with was from same family of disks as the disks
fitted by Humax. Seagate streaming media or something if I recall.

Even the original 160Gb disk showed filesystem issues when more than
half was in use.

Graham

Can anyone recommend a replacement HD?

http://www.humaxdirect.co.uk/product...102&cat=access

I don't think that's in stock.

See this thread on Digital Spy for ideas:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s....php?t=1247901

--
Max Demian

9200T going for landfill
 

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:41:58 +0100, Alan
wrote:

In message , Albert Ross
wrote

The Topfield is not supported by the manufacturer with regards
software/firmware. Their last effort at Freeview+ is over a year old,
it's as buggy as hell and not a single bug fix in site.

Damn, I haven't been keeping up. The original 5800 was quite usable
out of the box and I only updated the firmware a couple of times.

And possibly one of those updates had very little to do with Topfield.
The ''Split NIT' bug was fixed by a customer and not Topfield.

I can't remember the story now but one of the programmers either moved
from Topfield to Humax or vice versa.

Possibly he was the only person in the world who (almost) knew how to
program the chip.

If we knew where he works now we may be on to something

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Bill
writes

Can anyone recommend a replacement HD?

Look for a CE (consumer electronics) hard drive. I've seen
Seagate/Maxtor and WD branded ones.

Try and find one with the same or lower current draw on the 5v and 12v
lines. The PSUs in PVRs are often marginal.

--
Mike Tomlinson

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Steve Thackery
writes

Was this written as a joke?

Nope. Heat is bad for caps and the PSUs in PVRs are very often marginal
- only just sufficient to run the hardware, so they run hot.

--
Mike Tomlinson

9200T going for landfill
 

In article , Johnny B Good
writes

"Bad Caps" is a pretty common failure in most electronic kit. It's been
the bane of PC motherboards for the past 15 years or so and it's, in
this case, "(including noise on the 5V/12V lines)" the most likely cause
(the alternative of inductors developing shorted turns is significantly
less probable[1]).

I've just looked at an external SCSI DLT tape drive. That had bad caps
on the 12V output of the PSU, causing it to rise to 20V under load. No
overvoltage protection was fitted.

Needless to say, the drive is toast.

--
Mike Tomlinson

9200T going for landfill
 

In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart writes

I'm astonished by the number of electronic faults that are diagnosed remotely
as requiring nothing more than replacement of all the capacitors,

I have 25 years of experience, so do have an idea of what I speak.

a procedure
that with most modern circuitry would probably do more harm than good.

Complete nonsense.

--
Mike Tomlinson

9200T going for landfill
 

In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart writes

Regarding my "more harm than good" comment, I was thinking of modern close-
packed circuit boards, which do not in general lend themselves to frequent
component replacement, if at all.

Power supplies are not close-packed. By their very nature they have to
have adequate spacing between tracks. I would not advise an
inexperienced user to attempt a repair to any modern highly-integrated
circuit board.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png