Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I am currently receiving sky so have been told I need to reallign the dish to 28.5 Degrees and this will then pick up freesat. However, other people have said that they are so close together if you are picking up one you will gwet the other? Can someone please advise? Do I need to move the dish? Take back the box ? or buy a satellite meter to measure we are in the right place ?

Thabnks

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

Vicky wrote:
I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I am
currently receiving sky so have been told I need to reallign the dish
to 28.5 Degrees and this will then pick up freesat. However, other
people have said that they are so close together if you are picking up
one you will gwet the other? Can someone please advise? Do I need to
move the dish? Take back the box ? or buy a satellite meter to measure
we are in the right place ?

Thabnks


Sky and Freesat both use exactly the same signals from satellites
located at 28.2 & 28.5 degrees so what you've been told is true - if you
can 'see' one, you'll also 'see' the other.

The only difference is that Freesat uses a special Freesat Electronic
Programme Guide - everything else is the same.

If you're having no problems with your Sky box, your Freesat box should
work as well. if your signal is marginal, for some reason, to the extent
that the Freesat box won't work, you'd expect to see problems with the
Sky box as well.

If want to rule out all other possibilities, and if you haven't already
done so, take the input from the Sky box and try it on the Freesat box.

If it works, you know you'll have to look elsewhe if it doesn't, take
the box back.

If there's anything I've overlooked, I'm sure somebody more
knowledgeable will be along soon to let you know!

Terry

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

"Vicky" wrote in message
...

I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I am
currently receiving sky so have been told I need to reallign the dish
to 28.5 Degrees and this will then pick up freesat. However, other
people have said that they are so close together if you are picking up
one you will gwet the other? Can someone please advise? Do I need to
move the dish? Take back the box ? or buy a satellite meter to measure
we are in the right place ?

They are so close together that if you are picking up one you will get the
other, but your dish may not be well aligned anyway. Eurobird 1 signals tend
to be weaker than the rest in my experience (even though they're not meant
to be), so they are the first to go if your dish installation is a bit off.

Realign it, check the polarisation offset, clean it, check the cable ends
haven't got wet & remake them if necessary, and/or get a bigger dish.

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:06:59 +0000, Vicky
wrote:

I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat box. I am
currently receiving sky
Do I need to move the dish?
buy a satellite meter to measure
we are in the right place ?

The satellite meter, may help, but, rather as with a pointer on a
satellite or aerial photo, you're probably beyond that stage. Unless
it's very sophisticated, a meter will merely squeal when any signal is
being received, but give you no idea of which satellite the signal is
from. Hence it's main use in determining initial alignment, which you
have already achieved.

A decent but inexpensive satellite meter will do much more than merely
squeal when any signal is being received, but will give you a precise
indication of the correct dish alignment. True, it won't tell you which
satellite you are on (unless it's the expensive professional variety), but
the assumption here is that the dish is already aligned towards the Freesat
satellite cluster.

This being the case, and assuming that the receiver isn't faulty and is
properly connected, I would suggest the use of a meter as the next step in
trying to solve the problem. It may be the case that the Freesat receiver
is less sensitive than the Sky box, and that the dish alignment needs to be
tweaked to get a better signal.

Once the meter is connected between LNB and receiver, it is not a question
of squeal or no squeal, but of an audible tone which rises and falls in
pitch as the dish is moved towards or away from the satellite. With the
Philex meter that I use, I find that a slight nudge on the dish will give a
change of tone, depending upon whether the alignment is being made more or
less accurate.

To do this, however, it is essential that the sensitivity control on the
meter is correctly adjusted. In the present case - a signal already being
present - the control is turned up until the meter begins to squeal and
about half the LEDs on the meter are lit up . Now move the dish very
slightly sideways. Does the pitch rise or fall? If the pitch rises you are
going in right direction, but if it falls then you are going the wrong way.

If the tone falls off in both directions then you will know that the
horizontal alignment is already as good as it can be, and you can tighten up
the clamp for horizontal adjustment. If, on the other hand, the signal
increases to the extent that the meter goes out range and all the LEDs are
lit, back off the sensitivity control and repeat the process until no
further improvement can be obtained. Then repeat the process for vertical
alignment and "skew".

However, if the method below fails, it may be
worth the expense of £10-20 and using it to centre the dish both E-W
and up-down on the combined signal from the cluster.

The SLX-Philex meter costs about £10 and is very definitely worth it.

However, you already have a better meter, in the menus of the set top
boxes. Both should be able to give a signal read out. Of course, the
disadvantage of this method is that, unless you can get a power
supply, a set top box, and a portable TV to where the dish is, the
person adjusting the dish can't see the display on the TV. In the
past I have use binoculars to read the display on the ground from high
on a ladder against the gable end. Another alternative is to have
someone call out the information on the TV screen to someone
outside adjusting the dish.

I have tried using my receiver's meter but didn't find it very practical.
Note that the display takes a couple of seconds to respond to changes in
signal caused by a movement of the dish. Much better to use a meter which
responds instantly with a varying audible tone, and tells you what's going
on without having to watch a tv screen.

John L

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

"John Legon" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:06:59 +0000, Vicky
wrote:

I am having some problems picking anything up on my freesat
box. I am
currently receiving sky
Do I need to move the dish?
buy a satellite meter to measure
we are in the right place ?

The satellite meter, may help, but, rather as with a pointer
on a
satellite or aerial photo, you're probably beyond that stage.
Unless
it's very sophisticated, a meter will merely squeal when any
signal is
being received, but give you no idea of which satellite the
signal is
from. Hence it's main use in determining initial alignment,
which you
have already achieved.

A decent but inexpensive satellite meter will do much more than
merely
squeal when any signal is being received, but will give you a
precise
indication of the correct dish alignment. True, it won't tell
you which
satellite you are on (unless it's the expensive professional
variety), but
the assumption here is that the dish is already aligned towards
the Freesat
satellite cluster.

This being the case, and assuming that the receiver isn't
faulty and is
properly connected, I would suggest the use of a meter as the
next step in
trying to solve the problem. It may be the case that the
Freesat receiver
is less sensitive than the Sky box, and that the dish alignment
needs to be
tweaked to get a better signal.

Once the meter is connected between LNB and receiver, it is not
a question
of squeal or no squeal, but of an audible tone which rises and
falls in
pitch as the dish is moved towards or away from the satellite.
With the
Philex meter that I use, I find that a slight nudge on the dish
will give a
change of tone, depending upon whether the alignment is being
made more or
less accurate.

To do this, however, it is essential that the sensitivity
control on the
meter is correctly adjusted. In the present case - a signal
already being
present - the control is turned up until the meter begins to
squeal and
about half the LEDs on the meter are lit up . Now move the dish
very
slightly sideways. Does the pitch rise or fall? If the pitch
rises you are
going in right direction, but if it falls then you are going
the wrong way.

If the tone falls off in both directions then you will know
that the
horizontal alignment is already as good as it can be, and you
can tighten up
the clamp for horizontal adjustment. If, on the other hand,
the signal
increases to the extent that the meter goes out range and all
the LEDs are
lit, back off the sensitivity control and repeat the process
until no
further improvement can be obtained. Then repeat the process
for vertical
alignment and "skew".

However, if the method below fails, it may be
worth the expense of £10-20 and using it to centre the dish
both E-W
and up-down on the combined signal from the cluster.

The SLX-Philex meter costs about £10 and is very definitely
worth it.

However, you already have a better meter, in the menus of the
set top
boxes. Both should be able to give a signal read out. Of
course, the
disadvantage of this method is that, unless you can get a
power
supply, a set top box, and a portable TV to where the dish is,
the
person adjusting the dish can't see the display on the TV. In
the
past I have use binoculars to read the display on the ground
from high
on a ladder against the gable end. Another alternative is to
have
someone call out the information on the TV screen to someone
outside adjusting the dish.

I have tried using my receiver's meter but didn't find it very
practical.
Note that the display takes a couple of seconds to respond to
changes in
signal caused by a movement of the dish. Much better to use a
meter which
responds instantly with a varying audible tone, and tells you
what's going
on without having to watch a tv screen.

John L






The ain't nothing less sensitive than a Sky box!!


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:36:41 -0000, "John Legon"
wrote:

I have tried using my receiver's meter but didn't find it very
practical.

Well, I guess it partly depends on the meter, and partly on the
receiver. I also have an SLX meter, and it's nothing like as accurate
as you claim.

The problem with the SLX meter is that the sensitivity control is itself
very sensitive. Initially, when adjusting it, it seemed to me that the LEDs
were either all on or all off, giving the squeal or no squeal effect, Once
the operating point has been found, however, it really is highly effective,
and ultimately gives the same result as the receiver's built-in meter - but
with less hassle (for me anyway).

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:57:48 +0000, John Legon wrote:

The problem with the SLX meter is that the sensitivity control is itself
very sensitive. Initially, when adjusting it, it seemed to me that the
LEDs were either all on or all off, giving the squeal or no squeal
effect,

LEDs? Presumably this is not the SLX model to which you are referring,

http://www.dastv.co.UK/shop/SLx_Satellite_Meter__Finder_634.php

since this SLX model works extremely well and does not have the problem
of some meters of a sudden all or nothing effect on turning down
the sensitivity.

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

Two things.

1) Many people forget how important the "skew" (or rotational) setting
of the LNB is to performance and most basic meters dont help with
this, they just give an overall strength reading.

If you dont have any other way of doing it, you can generally
aproximate by setting the LNB vertical, then looking from the front of
the dish, rotate it a few degrees clockwise.


2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
about right.
The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

"J G Miller" wrote in message ...
On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:57:48 +0000, John Legon wrote:

The problem with the SLX meter is that the sensitivity control is itself
very sensitive. Initially, when adjusting it, it seemed to me that the
LEDs were either all on or all off, giving the squeal or no squeal
effect,

LEDs? Presumably this is not the SLX model to which you are referring,

http://www.dastv.co.UK/shop/SLx_Satellite_Meter__Finder_634.php

since this SLX model works extremely well and does not have the problem
of some meters of a sudden all or nothing effect on turning down
the sensitivity.

It's not the same model. The meter I've been using is the SLx "Satellite
Finder with Compass" which is shown about one-third of the way down this
page:

http://www.beststuff.co.uk/satellite_tv_accessories.htm

This includes a short jumper lead for connecting to the LNB. Note that the
control knob isn't shown in the photo and has to be fitted by the user. My
unit is actually branded Philex and came with their satellite dish/receiver
kit.

The same meter is available through Amazon under different names for between
£9.79 and £24.49

John L

Reallignment of Sky Dish to pick up Eurobird 1
 

"widgitt" wrote in message
...
Two things.

1) Many people forget how important the "skew" (or rotational) setting
of the LNB is to performance and most basic meters dont help with
this, they just give an overall strength reading.

I initially took my skew angles from dishpointer.com, but also checked the
result using the signal-quality meter on the receiver. Hopefully, though,
the skew of the OP's LNB will have been set by the Sky installer and won't
need attention.

If you dont have any other way of doing it, you can generally
aproximate by setting the LNB vertical, then looking from the front of
the dish, rotate it a few degrees clockwise.

When I added a third LNB to my dish last week, I simply used the same skew
as the first two. There may be some scope for improvement, but probably not
enough to make any practical difference.

2) Something which caught me out on a number of occasions recently
untill I realised what was going on is that the current cheap SD
Freesat receivers, Grundig etc, (which are all similar and from
Harvard) will not work on some channels with some LNBs.
I have sent some back, swapped them over, and tried all sorts. Sky
boxes and other non-Freesat boxes have worked perfectly on the same
feed etc. I was getting desperate until I tried an attenuator at the
input to the receiver. Bingo, all was well, and has been every time
there has been a problem. A 3 or 6 db satellite attenuator seems to be
about right.

The boxes are swamped when the output of the LNB is too high and this
seems to be the case particularly with some quad LNBs.

That's very interesting !!

John L