allo allo
 

In article ,
Calum wrote:
On 09/01/10 18:41, Jim wrote:

In a further twist, the show enjoyed further success on the theatre
stage in the 1990s

And indeed the 1980s. Think my parents took me to see it in 1986!

which was its opening year.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

allo allo
 

Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
as i browse over the internet i'm racing throu this tv series, which
im finding amusing but highly tautological, just like sex, when it
comes to poor little rené rejecting women in the sense of rené what
are you doing with that woman/ you stupid woman... i find the nazi
couple's sexual antics considerably amusing too.. but all a bit too
repetitive... ermm... thou lets not forget that brit bloke that cant
speak french, he creates a world unto his own of linguistically
sexually connoted pronounced french that goes a la par with something
from the 80s that looks like its from the 70s perhaps

The show was actually a broad parody of a serious 1970's BBC drama
called "Secret Army", in which the situation (Belgian cafe-owner hiding
escaping shot-down airmen while appearing to collaborate with local
occupation forces) and many of the characters were re-drawn in the
traditions of British stage farce. The many references to the drama
would have been easily understood by British viewers, but might have
passed over the heads of foreign audiences, who presumably just laughed
at the comedy.

I seem to remember reading that the series was successfully dubbed into
French and used exactly the same linguistic twists in reverse!

Terry

allo allo
 

Terry Casey wrote:
Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
as i browse over the internet i'm racing throu this tv series, which
im finding amusing but highly tautological, just like sex, when it
comes to poor little rené rejecting women in the sense of rené what
are you doing with that woman/ you stupid woman... i find the nazi
couple's sexual antics considerably amusing too.. but all a bit too
repetitive... ermm... thou lets not forget that brit bloke that cant
speak french, he creates a world unto his own of linguistically
sexually connoted pronounced french that goes a la par with something
from the 80s that looks like its from the 70s perhaps

The show was actually a broad parody of a serious 1970's BBC drama
called "Secret Army", in which the situation (Belgian cafe-owner
hiding escaping shot-down airmen while appearing to collaborate with
local occupation forces) and many of the characters were re-drawn in
the traditions of British stage farce. The many references to the
drama would have been easily understood by British viewers, but might
have passed over the heads of foreign audiences, who presumably just
laughed at the comedy.

I seem to remember reading that the series was successfully dubbed into
French and used exactly the same linguistic twists in reverse!

When I lived in Paris in the 1950s, the favourite programmes on tv there
were the Laurel and Hardy films, most of the fun being the dubbed French
spoken in the most appalling Franglais accents!

Hugh

--

Hugh Newbury

www.evershot-weather.org

allo allo
 

In message , Hugh Newbury
writes
Terry Casey wrote:
Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
as i browse over the internet i'm racing throu this tv series, which
im finding amusing but highly tautological, just like sex, when it
comes to poor little rené rejecting women in the sense of rené what
are you doing with that woman/ you stupid woman... i find the nazi
couple's sexual antics considerably amusing too.. but all a bit too
repetitive... ermm... thou lets not forget that brit bloke that cant
speak french, he creates a world unto his own of linguistically
sexually connoted pronounced french that goes a la par with something
from the 80s that looks like its from the 70s perhaps

The show was actually a broad parody of a serious 1970's BBC drama
called "Secret Army", in which the situation (Belgian cafe-owner
hiding escaping shot-down airmen while appearing to collaborate with
occupation forces) and many of the characters were re-drawn in the
traditions of British stage farce. The many references to the drama
would have been easily understood by British viewers, but might have
passed over the heads of foreign audiences, who presumably just
laughed at the comedy.
I seem to remember reading that the series was successfully dubbed
into French and used exactly the same linguistic twists in reverse!

When I lived in Paris in the 1950s, the favourite programmes on tv
there were the Laurel and Hardy films, most of the fun being the dubbed
French spoken in the most appalling Franglais accents!

Intentional? Would Hercule Poirot be the same character if he spoke
'perfect' English?

Of course, it could be that the French wanted to distance themselves
slightly from the antics of L&H, and appalling Franglais was a subtle
way of doing it.

Or maybe it was Canadians who did the dubbing, and they thought that
they actually speaking good French.
--
Ian

allo allo
 

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Hugh Newbury
writes
Terry Casey wrote:
Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
as i browse over the internet i'm racing throu this tv series, which
im finding amusing but highly tautological, just like sex, when it
comes to poor little rené rejecting women in the sense of rené what
are you doing with that woman/ you stupid woman... i find the nazi
couple's sexual antics considerably amusing too.. but all a bit too
repetitive... ermm... thou lets not forget that brit bloke that cant
speak french, he creates a world unto his own of linguistically
sexually connoted pronounced french that goes a la par with something
from the 80s that looks like its from the 70s perhaps

The show was actually a broad parody of a serious 1970's BBC drama
called "Secret Army", in which the situation (Belgian cafe-owner
hiding escaping shot-down airmen while appearing to collaborate with
occupation forces) and many of the characters were re-drawn in the
traditions of British stage farce. The many references to the
drama would have been easily understood by British viewers, but
might have passed over the heads of foreign audiences, who
presumably just laughed at the comedy.
I seem to remember reading that the series was successfully dubbed
into French and used exactly the same linguistic twists in reverse!

When I lived in Paris in the 1950s, the favourite programmes on tv
there were the Laurel and Hardy films, most of the fun being the
dubbed French spoken in the most appalling Franglais accents!

Intentional? Would Hercule Poirot be the same character if he spoke
'perfect' English?

Of course, it could be that the French wanted to distance themselves
slightly from the antics of L&H, and appalling Franglais was a subtle
way of doing it.

Or maybe it was Canadians who did the dubbing, and they thought that
they actually speaking good French.

Some years ago, I was in the home of a manager from Barco, in southern
Flanders close to both the French border and the Belgian language
frontier between Dutch speaking Flanders and French speaking Wallonia.

A young lad from their UK agent at the time was also present, and asked
the perennial question "What is the difference between the Flemish and
the Walloons?"

That, of course, is one of those 'How long is a piece of string?' type
questions, but Joel kept things simple and, by way of illustrating what
he was saying, turned on the TV.

The Flemish (and Dutch) broadcasters, he explained, always transmit
programmes with their native sound track and subtitles, whereas the
Walloon and French broadcasters won't touch anything that hasn't been
dubbed into French, and started clicking through the channels.

We saw a bit of "Soap" from the Netherlands, with original American
dialogue, and a BBC programme (can't remember which) from BRT in English.

Going through the French language channels brought up one gem: a good
old fashioned western!

We watched Lee Marvin, six guns rattling at his side, march down the
board walk, through the bat-wing doors of the saloon, then smash his
fist down on the bar and open his mouth ...

.... and collapsed in fits as this high-pitched, squeaky French voice
came out ...!

Terry

allo allo
 

In message , Terry Casey
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Hugh Newbury
writes
Terry Casey wrote:
Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
as i browse over the internet i'm racing throu this tv series, which
im finding amusing but highly tautological, just like sex, when it
comes to poor little rené rejecting women in the sense of rené what
are you doing with that woman/ you stupid woman... i find the nazi
couple's sexual antics considerably amusing too.. but all a bit too
repetitive... ermm... thou lets not forget that brit bloke that cant
speak french, he creates a world unto his own of linguistically
sexually connoted pronounced french that goes a la par with something
from the 80s that looks like its from the 70s perhaps

The show was actually a broad parody of a serious 1970's BBC drama
called "Secret Army", in which the situation (Belgian cafe-owner
hiding escaping shot-down airmen while appearing to collaborate
with occupation forces) and many of the characters were re-drawn
in the traditions of British stage farce. The many references to
the drama would have been easily understood by British viewers,
but might have passed over the heads of foreign audiences, who
presumably just laughed at the comedy.
I seem to remember reading that the series was successfully dubbed
into French and used exactly the same linguistic twists in reverse!

When I lived in Paris in the 1950s, the favourite programmes on tv
there were the Laurel and Hardy films, most of the fun being the
dubbed French spoken in the most appalling Franglais accents!

Intentional? Would Hercule Poirot be the same character if he spoke
'perfect' English?
Of course, it could be that the French wanted to distance themselves
slightly from the antics of L&H, and appalling Franglais was a subtle
way of doing it.
Or maybe it was Canadians who did the dubbing, and they thought that
they actually speaking good French.

Some years ago, I was in the home of a manager from Barco, in southern
Flanders close to both the French border and the Belgian language
frontier between Dutch speaking Flanders and French speaking Wallonia.

A young lad from their UK agent at the time was also present, and asked
the perennial question "What is the difference between the Flemish and
the Walloons?"

That, of course, is one of those 'How long is a piece of string?' type
questions, but Joel kept things simple and, by way of illustrating what
he was saying, turned on the TV.

The Flemish (and Dutch) broadcasters, he explained, always transmit
programmes with their native sound track and subtitles, whereas the
Walloon and French broadcasters won't touch anything that hasn't been
dubbed into French, and started clicking through the channels.

We saw a bit of "Soap" from the Netherlands, with original American
dialogue, and a BBC programme (can't remember which) from BRT in
English.

Going through the French language channels brought up one gem: a good
old fashioned western!

We watched Lee Marvin, six guns rattling at his side, march down the
board walk, through the bat-wing doors of the saloon, then smash his
fist down on the bar and open his mouth ...

... and collapsed in fits as this high-pitched, squeaky French voice
came out ...!

I believe that the Flemish and the Walloons are supposed to learn each
other's languages as second languages. However, while most Flemish speak
essentially prefect English and passable French, most Walloons are
uneasy in anything other than French.

After a few beers, I would sometimes say to the Belgians that it would
be far easier for the official second language (for both) to be the
politically neutral English. For the Flemish, this would be essentially
accepting the status quo. For the Walloons, they might consider English
as being more use to them (especially in the wider world), and also a
way out of having to learn a language which they couldn't really see
much use for. For both, they would have a common, neutral language in
which both sides could communicate easily.

But it hasn't happened yet.
--
Ian

allo allo
 

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Terry Casey
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Hugh Newbury
writes
Terry Casey wrote:
Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
as i browse over the internet i'm racing throu this tv series, which
im finding amusing but highly tautological, just like sex, when it
comes to poor little rené rejecting women in the sense of rené what
are you doing with that woman/ you stupid woman... i find the nazi
couple's sexual antics considerably amusing too.. but all a bit too
repetitive... ermm... thou lets not forget that brit bloke that cant
speak french, he creates a world unto his own of linguistically
sexually connoted pronounced french that goes a la par with
something
from the 80s that looks like its from the 70s perhaps

The show was actually a broad parody of a serious 1970's BBC drama
called "Secret Army", in which the situation (Belgian cafe-owner
hiding escaping shot-down airmen while appearing to collaborate
with occupation forces) and many of the characters were re-drawn
in the traditions of British stage farce. The many references
to the drama would have been easily understood by British
viewers, but might have passed over the heads of foreign
audiences, who presumably just laughed at the comedy.
I seem to remember reading that the series was successfully dubbed
into French and used exactly the same linguistic twists in reverse!

When I lived in Paris in the 1950s, the favourite programmes on tv
there were the Laurel and Hardy films, most of the fun being the
dubbed French spoken in the most appalling Franglais accents!

Intentional? Would Hercule Poirot be the same character if he spoke
'perfect' English?
Of course, it could be that the French wanted to distance themselves
slightly from the antics of L&H, and appalling Franglais was a subtle
way of doing it.
Or maybe it was Canadians who did the dubbing, and they thought that
they actually speaking good French.

Some years ago, I was in the home of a manager from Barco, in southern
Flanders close to both the French border and the Belgian language
frontier between Dutch speaking Flanders and French speaking Wallonia.

A young lad from their UK agent at the time was also present, and
asked the perennial question "What is the difference between the
Flemish and the Walloons?"

That, of course, is one of those 'How long is a piece of string?' type
questions, but Joel kept things simple and, by way of illustrating
what he was saying, turned on the TV.

The Flemish (and Dutch) broadcasters, he explained, always transmit
programmes with their native sound track and subtitles, whereas the
Walloon and French broadcasters won't touch anything that hasn't been
dubbed into French, and started clicking through the channels.

We saw a bit of "Soap" from the Netherlands, with original American
dialogue, and a BBC programme (can't remember which) from BRT in English.

Going through the French language channels brought up one gem: a good
old fashioned western!

We watched Lee Marvin, six guns rattling at his side, march down the
board walk, through the bat-wing doors of the saloon, then smash his
fist down on the bar and open his mouth ...

... and collapsed in fits as this high-pitched, squeaky French voice
came out ...!

I believe that the Flemish and the Walloons are supposed to learn each
other's languages as second languages. However, while most Flemish speak
essentially prefect English and passable French, most Walloons are
uneasy in anything other than French.

After a few beers, I would sometimes say to the Belgians that it would
be far easier for the official second language (for both) to be the
politically neutral English. For the Flemish, this would be essentially
accepting the status quo. For the Walloons, they might consider English
as being more use to them (especially in the wider world), and also a
way out of having to learn a language which they couldn't really see
much use for. For both, they would have a common, neutral language in
which both sides could communicate easily.

But it hasn't happened yet.

An interesting argument - and a possibility for the future.

The problem with Belgium, as I see it, was that in the early days (it
only became a country in its own right in 1830) all the coal, iron,
industry and, therefore, the wealth of the country, was in the South i.e
Wallonia.

The Walloons saw the Flemish in the north as ignorant, peasant farmers
and assumed control. (I find it appalling that maps of Flemish towns
dating back to WWI, nearly a hundred years on, show all street names in
French.)

Times and fortunes change, fortunately, and, particularly since WWII,
the Flemish have actively been able to assert their own identity.

So now, back to the plot ...

I always used to say that the basic difference between English and
French speakers, when confronted by someone who does not understand
their language, was that the English speaker believes that, if you SHOUT
LOUD ENOUGH, they will understand!

The French speaker, on the other hand, believes that if you speak *fast*
enough, they will understand ...!

(Proven, some years ago, when I asked a French speaking hotelier
"répétez très lentement, s'il vous plait?" and she replied at double her
original speed!)

More recently, though, we've noticed, both in northern France and
Belgium that, in towns which would be considered off the tourist trail,
the number of young people working in bars, restaurants and shops who
speak surprising good English.

I often wonder what would happen if the situation was reversed. How many
youngsters (late teens - early twenties) in this country speak fluent
French?

allo allo
 

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Hugh Newbury
writes
Terry Casey wrote:
Jim wrote:
sirblob2 wrote:
snip
We watched Lee Marvin, six guns rattling at his side, march down the board
walk, through the bat-wing doors of the saloon, then smash his fist down
on the bar and open his mouth ...

... and collapsed in fits as this high-pitched, squeaky French voice came
out ...!
Terry


Lee Marvin was US marine during WW2, they've never forgiven him for
liberating them ;-)

Steve Terry
--
Get a free Three 3pay Sim with £2 bonus after £10 top up
http://freeagent.three.co.uk/stand/view/id/5276

allo allo
 

Terry Casey wrote:

the English speaker believes that, if you
SHOUT LOUD ENOUGH, they will understand!

The French speaker, on the other hand, believes that if you speak
*fast* enough, they will understand ...!

(Proven, some years ago, when I asked a French speaking hotelier
"répétez très lentement, s'il vous plait?" and she replied at double
her original speed!)

I have had exactly the same experience with the woman who sold tickets for
the Eiffel Tower.

More recently, though, we've noticed, both in northern France and
Belgium that, in towns which would be considered off the tourist
trail, the number of young people working in bars, restaurants and
shops who speak surprising good English.

I often wonder what would happen if the situation was reversed. How
many youngsters (late teens - early twenties) in this country speak
fluent French?

Judging by the prevalence of pierced tongues, I think young English women
have French well and truly licked.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

allo allo
 

In article , Terry Casey wrote:
More recently, though, we've noticed, both in northern France and
Belgium that, in towns which would be considered off the tourist trail,
the number of young people working in bars, restaurants and shops who
speak surprising good English.

I often wonder what would happen if the situation was reversed. How many
youngsters (late teens - early twenties) in this country speak fluent
French?

You can use English all over the world, but the same can no longer be said of
French. If the situation really were reversed to the extent that French was the
language that was spoken everywhere, then there would be an obvious practical
value in learning it, but there isn't, unless you want to visit France.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/