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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:13:37 +0100, "Jerry"
wrote:

Remember that most people in the UK locate their Christmas trees
inside the house and also have the lights on during the few hours
of effective sunlight most people get (on a good day) at that
time of year (just after the winter equinox, assuming that
everyone keeps to the traditional calibration period)...

It's the Winter Solstice, not Equinox.
--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

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"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
: On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:12:29 +0100, "Steve Thackery"
: wrote:
:
: Have you heard of Pareto analysis? To over-simplify, you find
out what the
: big contributors are, and tackle them first, thus making a big
difference
: early on. If you want to make a big difference you need to
tackle the big
: stuff. My major concern is that the public now thinks they
can save the
: planet by using CFLs and switching their telly off at the
wall.
:
: 60 million people doing anything would easily have a big
effect.
:

No it would not, 60% of Zero percent is still a big fat ZERO, all
that has been achieved is 60 million people *thinking* they have
done something to "Save the World"...

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"Java Jive" wrote in message
...

snip
:
: Yes, the car scrappage scheme was crazy.

It was on ecological grounds, it made every sense on economic
ground to try and get some money moving round within the motor
industry, their suppliers and financers.
--
Regards, Jerry.

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JJ, I think we are in what is known as "violent agreement" here! At least,
pretty close to it.

SteveT

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Zero Tolerance wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:12:29 +0100, "Steve Thackery"
wrote:

Have you heard of Pareto analysis? To over-simplify, you find out
what the big contributors are, and tackle them first, thus making a
big difference early on. If you want to make a big difference you
need to tackle the big stuff. My major concern is that the public
now thinks they can save the planet by using CFLs and switching
their telly off at the wall.

60 million people doing anything would easily have a big effect.

If the whole of the UK sank overnight, never to inconvenience another
electron, China's increase in electricity generation at present rates would
negate that in under a year.

So, 60 million people saving, say, even an unlikely quarter of their
domestic electricity consumption, which in itself is only a third of all the
electricity consumption in the UK, would be negated by China in under a
month. And China is just one of the countries of the world increasing its
power consumption year on year. Add in India, Brazil and Russia, and you're
probably talking of delaying global warming if everyone here 'did
something', by 10 days at most.

You may call that a 'big effect'. I call it trivial.

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"Steve Thackery" wrote in message
...

The point is that the savings are much less than the green pundits claim.
Yes, there are savings, and any savings are worthwhile. We don't differ
there.
I agree with every word of your post (that I've snipped) and I applaud the
way you've expressed it. But are 'any' savings worthwhile? Everything has a
cost, and if a measure has a large cost in terms of the quality of life and
a very small benefit in terms of CO2 reduction, it might not be worthwhile.
We might be able to achieve the same degree of CO2 reduction by a less
painful method.

Bill

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"Zero Tolerance" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:12:29 +0100, "Steve Thackery"
wrote:

Have you heard of Pareto analysis? To over-simplify, you find out what
the
big contributors are, and tackle them first, thus making a big difference
early on. If you want to make a big difference you need to tackle the big
stuff. My major concern is that the public now thinks they can save the
planet by using CFLs and switching their telly off at the wall.

60 million people doing anything would easily have a big effect.

That's a ludicrously unscientific assertion.

Bill

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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:12:29 +0100, Steve Thackery wrote:

Did you know that the figure used by the UK government in the car
scrappage white paper for the CO2 impact of manufacturing a new car is
ONE TENTH that claimed by Ford? If Ford are correct, and making a new
car actually generates ten times as much CO2 as the government believes,
then the car scrappage scheme would be an environmental faux pas.

er the car scrappage scheme isn't a "green" measure it's an economic
one to help the car companies through the downturn without giving
them a direct cash hand out.

--
Cheers
Dave.

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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:10:22 +0100, Jerry wrote:

... all that has been achieved is 60 million people *thinking* they have
done something to "Save the World"...

Yeah, someone using "Save the World" instead of "Save the Planet".
The planet will survive quite happily pretty much no matter we do to
it, the question is are we likely to be part of it? If we want to be
part of it we need to save our world. The planet will look after
itself in the long term, but that may well mean that we won't have
suitable conditions for survival, with or without technology.

--
Cheers
Dave.

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On Sep 16, 4:13*pm, "Jerry"
wrote:

Christmas trees with no lights?

:
: Perfect application for rechargeable solarpowered
: LED lights.

In Australia!...

Which of the bit you snipped did you have difficulty with?

Non of it, unlike you (well, what I could understand, what are
"nones", I assume you mean Gnomes?...).

[Quoting corrected]

Har bloody har. Read it in context and it's quite clear that "the
nones" was a typo for "the ones". Try spelling "None" correctly before
complaining about other peoples typos.


Remember that most people in the UK locate their Christmas trees
inside the house and also have the lights on during the few hours

So what did people do before electric light was invented or before
they could afford cheap imported christmas tree lights?

I must admit, talk of fountains put me more in mind of civic schemes
than things in the home or garden.

of effective sunlight most people get (on a good day) at that
time of year (just after the winter equinox

There you go again, you see, none of us are perfect when it comes to
typing the right words ;-)

MBQ