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Petition to stop FM being switched off
There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. -- Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info "It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. cool thanks ...... |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Jimbo GM4DHJ .... wrote:
| "DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message | ... || There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: || || http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ || || Please sign. Thanks. || || | cool thanks ...... Maybe some more bandwidth to play with.......Naah I doubt it (it'll be sold to the highest bidder) |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In message , DAB sounds worse than
FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? -- Alan news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Kráftéé" wrote in message ... Jimbo GM4DHJ .... wrote: | "DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message | ... || There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: || || http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ || || Please sign. Thanks. || || | cool thanks ...... Maybe some more bandwidth to play with.......Naah I doubt it (it'll be sold to the highest bidder) the modern world stinks.....apart from all the things I like about it that is...... |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Alan wrote:
In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Why would it do that? How many more rubbish radio stations (at lower quality than FM) do you want anyway? |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Alan" wrote in message
In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? What you say is wrong for the following reasons: * The Digital Britain report said that the FM band would be used for "ultra-local" FM stations once all of the bigger FM radio stations have been switched off. So FM actually isn't planned to be switched off, so the FM band couldn't be freed up for DAB anyway * DAB uses frequencies of around 200 MHz, whereas FM uses frequencies of around 100 MHz - i.e. DAB couldn't be transmitted in the FM band anyway * DAB won't be getting any more spectrum than it's already got, because DAB spectrum was all allocated to Europeam countries in 2006 (there is one unused DAB channel at the moment that was going to be used for a 2nd national commercial multiplex which fell through when Channel 4 decided against entering radio last year, but I think that's just going to be pretty much wasted when they replan the spectrum) * Apart from in London, where I think the figure is around 55 stations, people can typically receive about 35 radio stations on DAB. DAB could never carry hundreds of radio stations. DAB was designed in the 1980s. It is an incredibly inefficient system because the technologies it uses are so old. Some other things that you might like to bear in mind which it sounds like you're probably unaware of at the moment are that * DAB provides lower audio quality than FM, Internet radio and radio via digital TV * DAB's audio quality isn't going to get any better in future because the MP2 audio codec it uses is 20 years old so they've obviously been optimising it for years but it still sounds crap at the low bit rates that it's used at in the UK * DAB's audio quality is actually only likely to go down, because as more people get DAB then that makes it more appealing to commercial radio stations to launch new stations because there's more potential revenue. The downside of that is that the bit rate levels of existing stations have to be reduced to fit new stations in, so the audio quality goes down as a result * 98% of stereo stations on DAB in the UK use a bit rate of either 112 or 128 kbps with the MP2 codec - in comparison, the BBC uses a bit rate of 256 kbps MP2 for the audio on its TV channels, and the vast majority of TV channels tend to use a bit rate of 192 kbps MP2 for the audio. Basically, the UK radio broadcasters are using bit rates that the MP2 audio codec wasn't designed to be used at. * One thing that might surprise quite a few people is that the digital platform that carries digital radio at the highest audio quality is now the Internet, because the BBC launched new 128 kbps AAC live streams for the stereo stations apart from Radio 3 and 192 kbps AAC for Radio 3 last week - 128 kbps AAC is the equivalent of around 224 kbps MP2, so it's far higher quality than 128 kbps MP2 that the BBC uses on DAB. Also most of the bigger commercial radio stations also provide far higher qulaity online streams than they provide on DAB. And the audio quality on Internet radio's only likely to increase over time as Internet speeds get faster and cost per Mbps falls. * If you actually do want hundreds of radio stations there are over 10,000 Internet radio stations, so DAB obviously can't compete with that * DAB cannot deliver on-demand content - only broadband (and cable) can deliver true on-demand streams So if you were thinking that DAB's going to turn into a good digital radio system, I'm afraid it's basically just FM done digitally but at lower audio quality and you get a few more stations. If you have **** FM reception then you'd benefit, otherwise you'll actually get lower audio quality on DAB than on FM. The reason why DAB is being backed by the government is because it's to bail out the commercial radio groups who don't want to pay to transmit both analogue and digital for the next few decades - DAB was just a few years from failing, because sales have been really **** since 2006 (that's why DAB nearly collapsed last year when GCap Media said it wanted to withdraw from DAB completely). The BBC's Director of Radio Tim Davie said recently that at the rate we're going FM wouldn't be switched off "in our lifetime", which is correct, because it's only selling at 2 millino per year with 6% growth last year (which is ****) and basically it would have taken about 30 - 40 years to switch FM off, so we have to all be forced to get DAB like good little citizens to bail out the commercial radio groups so that they don't have to pay dual analogue and digital transmission costs. The radio broadcasters also have another reason why they want everyone to listen via DAB, which is that it's the platform where their stations face the least amount of competition - so they'd lose the least amount of listeners and hence revenue - whereas if Internet radio became popular they're scared that people would desert their stations and listen to others, and they can't allow that, and neither can the government. It's just pure protectionism, basically. -- Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info "It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. What's your fecking name, King Canute? the future is DRM, good job too Steve Terry |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Alan" wrote in message
... In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Dab !!! Dab is dead, mpeg 2 crap. Keep up at the back Steve Terry |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Alan" wrote in message ... In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? I don't see the comparison. I want freedom of choice. DAB gives me an extra freedom, but that's all. My experience of digital, such as Freeview and the like, is that quality of transmission is actually worse than the equivalent analogue transmission! As a comparison, do you think the multitude of TV channels has really given us more choice? I now watch less TV than ever before! |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Done. Graham |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Alan wrote: In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Like the hundreds of channels of pap on TV now ? Besides, DAB is inferior. Good FM beats it hands down. Graham due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
jasee wrote: Alan wrote: In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Why would it do that? How many more rubbish radio stations (at lower quality than FM) do you want anyway? Quite, the radio bandwidth is squandered as it is at present with too many 'lookalike' stations. How many times have I changed channel to hear the SAME tune on another station being played near simultaneously. More diversity is what's required rather than 'me too' boring BBC local stations with talk shows about neighbours' cats and dogs and the like. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Alan wrote:
| In message , DAB sounds worse | than FM wrote || There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: || || http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ || || Please sign. Thanks. || || | | | Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting | hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Don't forget, better quality as well |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
jasee wrote:
| Alan wrote: || In message , DAB sounds worse || than FM wrote ||| There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: ||| ||| http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ || || || Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting || hundreds of radio stations on DAB? | | Why would it do that? | How many more rubbish radio stations (at lower quality than FM) do | you want anyway? But with a greater bandwidth they wouldn't have to compress the audio so much & so you could have better quality sound, the way it should be! |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
| "Alan" wrote in message | || In message , DAB sounds worse || than || FM wrote ||| There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: ||| ||| http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ ||| ||| Please sign. Thanks. ||| ||| || || || Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting || hundreds of radio stations on DAB? | | | What you say is wrong for the following reasons: | | * The Digital Britain report said that the FM band would be used for | "ultra-local" FM stations once all of the bigger FM radio stations | have been switched off. So FM actually isn't planned to be switched | off, so the FM band couldn't be freed up for DAB anyway | | * DAB uses frequencies of around 200 MHz, whereas FM uses | frequencies of around 100 MHz - i.e. DAB couldn't be transmitted in | the FM band anyway | | * DAB won't be getting any more spectrum than it's already got, | because DAB spectrum was all allocated to Europeam countries in 2006 | (there is one unused DAB channel at the moment that was going to be | used for a 2nd national commercial multiplex which fell through when | Channel 4 decided against entering radio last year, but I think | that's just going to be pretty much wasted when they replan the | spectrum) | | * Apart from in London, where I think the figure is around 55 | stations, people can typically receive about 35 radio stations on | DAB. DAB could never carry hundreds of radio stations. DAB was | designed in the 1980s. It is an incredibly inefficient system | because the technologies it uses are so old. | | Some other things that you might like to bear in mind which it | sounds like you're probably unaware of at the moment are that | | * DAB provides lower audio quality than FM, Internet radio and radio | via digital TV | | * DAB's audio quality isn't going to get any better in future | because the MP2 audio codec it uses is 20 years old so they've | obviously been optimising it for years but it still sounds crap at | the low bit rates that it's used at in the UK | | * DAB's audio quality is actually only likely to go down, because as | more people get DAB then that makes it more appealing to commercial | radio stations to launch new stations because there's more potential | revenue. The downside of that is that the bit rate levels of | existing stations have to be reduced to fit new stations in, so the | audio quality goes down as a result | | * 98% of stereo stations on DAB in the UK use a bit rate of either | 112 or 128 kbps with the MP2 codec - in comparison, the BBC uses a | bit rate of 256 kbps MP2 for the audio on its TV channels, and the | vast majority of TV channels tend to use a bit rate of 192 kbps MP2 | for the audio. Basically, the UK radio broadcasters are using bit | rates that the MP2 audio codec wasn't designed to be used at. | | * One thing that might surprise quite a few people is that the | digital platform that carries digital radio at the highest audio | quality is now the Internet, because the BBC launched new 128 kbps | AAC live streams for the stereo stations apart from Radio 3 and 192 | kbps AAC for Radio 3 last week - 128 kbps AAC is the equivalent of | around 224 kbps MP2, so it's far higher quality than 128 kbps MP2 | that the BBC uses on DAB. Also most of the bigger commercial radio | stations also provide far higher qulaity online streams than they | provide on DAB. And the audio quality on Internet radio's only | likely to increase over time as Internet speeds get faster and cost | per Mbps falls. | | * If you actually do want hundreds of radio stations there are over | 10,000 Internet radio stations, so DAB obviously can't compete with | that | | * DAB cannot deliver on-demand content - only broadband (and cable) | can deliver true on-demand streams | | So if you were thinking that DAB's going to turn into a good digital | radio system, I'm afraid it's basically just FM done digitally but | at lower audio quality and you get a few more stations. If you have | **** FM reception then you'd benefit, otherwise you'll actually get | lower audio quality on DAB than on FM. | | The reason why DAB is being backed by the government is because it's | to bail out the commercial radio groups who don't want to pay to | transmit both analogue and digital for the next few decades - DAB | was just a few years from failing, because sales have been really | **** since 2006 (that's why DAB nearly collapsed last year when | GCap Media said it wanted to withdraw from DAB completely). The | BBC's Director of Radio Tim Davie said recently that at the rate | we're going FM wouldn't be switched off "in our lifetime", which is | correct, because it's only selling at 2 millino per year with 6% | growth last year (which is ****) and basically it would have taken | about 30 - 40 years to switch FM off, so we have to all be forced | to get DAB like good little citizens to bail out the commercial | radio groups so that they don't have to pay dual analogue and | digital transmission costs. | | The radio broadcasters also have another reason why they want | everyone to listen via DAB, which is that it's the platform where | their stations face the least amount of competition - so they'd | lose the least amount of listeners and hence revenue - whereas if | Internet radio became popular they're scared that people would | desert their stations and listen to others, and they can't allow | that, and neither can the government. It's just pure protectionism, | basically. I doff my cap to your superior knowledge on this subject and shall withdraw from the argument. |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Fredxx wrote: "Alan" wrote in message In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? I don't see the comparison. I want freedom of choice. DAB gives me an extra freedom, but that's all. My experience of digital, such as Freeview and the like, is that quality of transmission is actually worse than the equivalent analogue transmission! Slightly off-topic but a neighbour of mine got a Samsung LCD TV a couple of years back. The colours were wishy-washy compared to her previous Sony CRT and motion blur and noise were very obvious. Newer is NOT necessarily better. As a comparison, do you think the multitude of TV channels has really given us more choice? I now watch less TV than ever before! Same here. Entire days on end ( sometimes weeks ) without bothering with the utter tripe being broadcast now. I think the BBC should be funded on a pay-per-view basis. And Eastenders etc should be terminated for promoting illegality and dumbing down. Graham -- due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious adjustment to my email address |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Kráftéé" wrote in message ... jasee wrote: | Alan wrote: || In message , DAB sounds worse || than FM wrote ||| There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: ||| ||| http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ || || Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting || hundreds of radio stations on DAB? | | Why would it do that? | How many more rubbish radio stations (at lower quality than FM) do | you want anyway? But with a greater bandwidth they wouldn't have to compress the audio so much & so you could have better quality sound, the way it should be! What we need is more compression to recreate a greater bandwidth, with DRM that's what you get Steve Terry |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Kráftéé" wrote in message ... DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: | "Alan" wrote in message | || In message , DAB sounds worse || than || FM wrote ||| There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: ||| ||| http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ ||| ||| Please sign. Thanks. ||| ||| || || || Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting || hundreds of radio stations on DAB? | | | What you say is wrong for the following reasons: | | * The Digital Britain report said that the FM band would be used for | "ultra-local" FM stations once all of the bigger FM radio stations | have been switched off. So FM actually isn't planned to be switched | off, so the FM band couldn't be freed up for DAB anyway | | * DAB uses frequencies of around 200 MHz, whereas FM uses | frequencies of around 100 MHz - i.e. DAB couldn't be transmitted in | the FM band anyway DAB can be transmitted at any frequency, it doesn't have to be 200MHz. It's just what was available. The bandwidth for DAB and FM aren't much different. | | * DAB won't be getting any more spectrum than it's already got, | because DAB spectrum was all allocated to Europeam countries in 2006 | (there is one unused DAB channel at the moment that was going to be | used for a 2nd national commercial multiplex which fell through when | Channel 4 decided against entering radio last year, but I think | that's just going to be pretty much wasted when they replan the | spectrum) | | * Apart from in London, where I think the figure is around 55 | stations, people can typically receive about 35 radio stations on | DAB. DAB could never carry hundreds of radio stations. DAB was | designed in the 1980s. It is an incredibly inefficient system | because the technologies it uses are so old. | | Some other things that you might like to bear in mind which it | sounds like you're probably unaware of at the moment are that | | * DAB provides lower audio quality than FM, Internet radio and radio | via digital TV | | * DAB's audio quality isn't going to get any better in future | because the MP2 audio codec it uses is 20 years old so they've | obviously been optimising it for years but it still sounds crap at | the low bit rates that it's used at in the UK Agreed - DAB bit rates are embarrasingly low. I have no idea why MP2 was chosen. Even DAB+ isn't compatible with old DAB. All in all, a complete mess! | | * DAB's audio quality is actually only likely to go down, because as | more people get DAB then that makes it more appealing to commercial | radio stations to launch new stations because there's more potential | revenue. The downside of that is that the bit rate levels of | existing stations have to be reduced to fit new stations in, so the | audio quality goes down as a result | | * 98% of stereo stations on DAB in the UK use a bit rate of either | 112 or 128 kbps with the MP2 codec - in comparison, the BBC uses a | bit rate of 256 kbps MP2 for the audio on its TV channels, and the | vast majority of TV channels tend to use a bit rate of 192 kbps MP2 | for the audio. Basically, the UK radio broadcasters are using bit | rates that the MP2 audio codec wasn't designed to be used at. | | * One thing that might surprise quite a few people is that the | digital platform that carries digital radio at the highest audio | quality is now the Internet, because the BBC launched new 128 kbps | AAC live streams for the stereo stations apart from Radio 3 and 192 | kbps AAC for Radio 3 last week - 128 kbps AAC is the equivalent of | around 224 kbps MP2, so it's far higher quality than 128 kbps MP2 | that the BBC uses on DAB. Also most of the bigger commercial radio | stations also provide far higher qulaity online streams than they | provide on DAB. And the audio quality on Internet radio's only | likely to increase over time as Internet speeds get faster and cost | per Mbps falls. | | * If you actually do want hundreds of radio stations there are over | 10,000 Internet radio stations, so DAB obviously can't compete with | that | | * DAB cannot deliver on-demand content - only broadband (and cable) | can deliver true on-demand streams | | So if you were thinking that DAB's going to turn into a good digital | radio system, I'm afraid it's basically just FM done digitally but | at lower audio quality and you get a few more stations. If you have | **** FM reception then you'd benefit, otherwise you'll actually get | lower audio quality on DAB than on FM. | | The reason why DAB is being backed by the government is because it's | to bail out the commercial radio groups who don't want to pay to | transmit both analogue and digital for the next few decades - DAB | was just a few years from failing, because sales have been really | **** since 2006 (that's why DAB nearly collapsed last year when | GCap Media said it wanted to withdraw from DAB completely). The | BBC's Director of Radio Tim Davie said recently that at the rate | we're going FM wouldn't be switched off "in our lifetime", which is | correct, because it's only selling at 2 millino per year with 6% | growth last year (which is ****) and basically it would have taken | about 30 - 40 years to switch FM off, so we have to all be forced | to get DAB like good little citizens to bail out the commercial | radio groups so that they don't have to pay dual analogue and | digital transmission costs. | | The radio broadcasters also have another reason why they want | everyone to listen via DAB, which is that it's the platform where | their stations face the least amount of competition - so they'd | lose the least amount of listeners and hence revenue - whereas if | Internet radio became popular they're scared that people would | desert their stations and listen to others, and they can't allow | that, and neither can the government. It's just pure protectionism, | basically. I doff my cap to your superior knowledge on this subject and shall withdraw from the argument. |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In message , DAB sounds worse than
FM wrote "Alan" wrote in message In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? What you say is wrong for the following reasons: snip So there is no need for the petition! FM isn't going to be switched off. -- Alan news2009 {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In article ,
Eeyore wrote: Besides, DAB is inferior. Good FM beats it hands down. I'm surprised at that statement from you, Graham. DAB at a decent bitrate knocks FM into touch. Of course if you want to compare 'good' FM to poor bitrate DAB to make a point, so be it. -- *Stable Relationships Are For Horses. * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eeyore wrote: Besides, DAB is inferior. Good FM beats it hands down. I'm surprised at that statement from you, Graham. DAB at a decent bitrate knocks FM into touch. Of course if you want to compare 'good' FM to poor bitrate DAB to make a point, so be it. DRM at a decent bitrate knocks DAB at a decent bitrate into touch Steve Terry |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
The message
from "Steve Terry" contains these words: ====snip==== What we need is more compression to recreate a greater bandwidth, with DRM that's what you get Forgive me if this seems a daft question, but how does DRM (Digital Rights Management) create greater bandwidth? -- Regards, John. Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying. The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots. |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Johnny B Good wrote:
Forgive me if this seems a daft question, but how does DRM (Digital Rights Management) create greater bandwidth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale -- Adrian C |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
.. . The message from "Steve Terry" contains these words: ====snip==== What we need is more compression to recreate a greater bandwidth, with DRM that's what you get Forgive me if this seems a daft question, but how does DRM (Digital Rights Management) create greater bandwidth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale Mpeg4 compression radio DAB Mpeg2 ;-p Steve Terry |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
In article , Eeyore wrote: Besides, DAB is inferior. Good FM beats it hands down. I'm surprised at that statement from you, Graham. DAB at a decent bitrate knocks FM into touch. Stop lying Plowman. You only ever listen to Radio 4, and you've said numerous times that you never listen to the music stations which just so happen to be the stations that have the biggest problem with their audio quality on DAB. Of course if you want to compare 'good' FM to poor bitrate DAB to make a point, so be it. Don't need to do that - FM ****es all over DAB. -- Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info "It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message In article , Eeyore wrote: Besides, DAB is inferior. Good FM beats it hands down. I'm surprised at that statement from you, Graham. DAB at a decent bitrate knocks FM into touch. Stop lying Plowman. You only ever listen to Radio 4, and you've said numerous times that you never listen to the music stations which just so happen to be the stations that have the biggest problem with their audio quality on DAB. Of course if you want to compare 'good' FM to poor bitrate DAB to make a point, so be it. Don't need to do that - FM ****es all over DAB. FM ****es all over the lousy low bitrate DAB we get in the UK Steve Terry |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Fredxx" wrote in message
"Kráftéé" wrote in message ... DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: "Alan" wrote in message In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? What you say is wrong for the following reasons: * The Digital Britain report said that the FM band would be used for "ultra-local" FM stations once all of the bigger FM radio stations have been switched off. So FM actually isn't planned to be switched off, so the FM band couldn't be freed up for DAB anyway * DAB uses frequencies of around 200 MHz, whereas FM uses frequencies of around 100 MHz - i.e. DAB couldn't be transmitted in the FM band anyway DAB can be transmitted at any frequency, it doesn't have to be 200MHz. It's just what was available. Yes, but DAB receivers can only receive signals that are transmitting in Band III or L-band - and there are no multiplexes in L-band in the UK. The bandwidth for DAB and FM aren't much different. * DAB won't be getting any more spectrum than it's already got, because DAB spectrum was all allocated to Europeam countries in 2006 (there is one unused DAB channel at the moment that was going to be used for a 2nd national commercial multiplex which fell through when Channel 4 decided against entering radio last year, but I think that's just going to be pretty much wasted when they replan the spectrum) * Apart from in London, where I think the figure is around 55 stations, people can typically receive about 35 radio stations on DAB. DAB could never carry hundreds of radio stations. DAB was designed in the 1980s. It is an incredibly inefficient system because the technologies it uses are so old. Some other things that you might like to bear in mind which it sounds like you're probably unaware of at the moment are that * DAB provides lower audio quality than FM, Internet radio and radio via digital TV * DAB's audio quality isn't going to get any better in future because the MP2 audio codec it uses is 20 years old so they've obviously been optimising it for years but it still sounds crap at the low bit rates that it's used at in the UK Agreed - DAB bit rates are embarrasingly low. I have no idea why MP2 was chosen. They held listening tests in 1990 at Swedish Radio where they compared a load of codecs and boiled it down to 2, which went on to become MP2 and MP3. They chose MP2 because - get this - MP2 provided higher quality than MP3 at high bit rate levels - above 192 kbps basically. Also, MP2 decoders have a lower computational complexity than MP3, and MP2 allowed lower error correction coding with a computational complexity as well. In 1990 when electronics were extremely slow and expensive compared to today the difference in computational complexity might have mattered, but it was a bad long term decision. And as for the decision to go with MP2 because it provided higher quality than MP3 at high bit rates that was an even worse decision. What they should have done IMO was implement MP3, which was designed to be backwardly compatible with MP2 anyway, then let the broadcasters decide. What they did was cripple the whole system by adopting MP2 - and the fools didn't even bother to upgrade the codec since even though AAC was standardised in 1997, and development of it began in 1994. Basically, it's a textbook lesson of incompetence. Apparently the BBC R&D dept were recommending AAC to be used in the late 1990s, but the BBC execs obviously ignored them. Even DAB+ isn't compatible with old DAB. All in all, a complete mess! It's definitely a complete mess - the fact that DAB+ had to be designed just 3 years after the BBC had properly launched DAB in 2002 shows how incompetent the broadcasters were in choosing to go with DAB without upgrading it first. To be fair to them about DAB+ though, DAB+ was designed to solve DAB's problems, so they added the AAC+ audio codec to make DAB more efficient and added RS error correction coding to make receptino more robust - but DAB receivers produced up to that point didn't support AAC+ or RS coding, so they had to accept non-compatibility. -- Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info "It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Alan" wrote in message
In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote "Alan" wrote in message In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Please sign. Thanks. Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? What you say is wrong for the following reasons: snip So there is no need for the petition! FM isn't going to be switched off. The only FM stations that will still be on FM will be "ultra-local" stations, which most people don't care about. -- Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info "It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Steve Terry" wrote in message
"Kráftéé" wrote in message ... jasee wrote: Alan wrote: In message , DAB sounds worse than FM wrote There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Why would it do that? How many more rubbish radio stations (at lower quality than FM) do you want anyway? But with a greater bandwidth they wouldn't have to compress the audio so much & so you could have better quality sound, the way it should be! What we need is more compression to recreate a greater bandwidth, with DRM that's what you get Where are you getting this stuff about DRM from? A typical DRM station is the BBC World Service, which transmits in a 9 or 10 kHz bandwidth channel and it uses a bit rate of about 20 kbps. The audio quality is so bad that it makes DAB sound good in comparison, and I consider the audio quality on DAB to be dire. If you really mean DRM+ then that's a different story, but DRM without the + is a crap, low quality system that's only really meant to replace MW stations. And DRM doesn't stand a chance of getting established in the UK now, because I don't think there are any receivers in teh shops that support DRM - if there are any there's only one or two. -- Steve - www.savefm.org - stop the BBC bullies switching off FM www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - digital radio news & info "It is the sheer volume of online audio content available via internet-connected devices which terrifies the UK radio industry. I believe that broadband-delivered radio will explode in the years to come, offering very local, unregulated content, as well as opening a window to the radio stations of the world." - from the Myers Report |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
The message
from Adrian C contains these words: Johnny B Good wrote: Forgive me if this seems a daft question, but how does DRM (Digital Rights Management) create greater bandwidth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale Thanks Adrian and Steve. That's cleared up the confusion. It's just a pity that it shares the same acronym as those misbegotten and deprecated software schemes to protect the commercial interests of the "Corporate Entertainment Industries". -- Regards, John. Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying. The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots. |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In article , DAB sounds worse than
FM writes There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: I've not been following this, but if FM is switched off, what happens to the millions of car radios fitted? What about those that are built into the console and can't be swapped out? -- (\__/) (='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded. (")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In article , Eeyore rabbitsfriendsan
writes More diversity is what's required That worked REALLY well with Freeview, didn't it? Dave, Dave+1, Dave +1+1, C4, More4. E4... endless repeats of the same stuff. Yeah, diversity. -- (\__/) (='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded. (")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Alan" wrote in message
... Why would anyone want to sign something that may prevent us getting hundreds of radio stations on DAB? Well, I already have 4 FM radios as well as one in each of our families cars. We don't have a DAB radio. Is that a good enough reason??? -- J B |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In message , Kráftéé
writes Jimbo GM4DHJ .... wrote: | "DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message | ... || There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: || || http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/AM-FM-Radio/ || || Please sign. Thanks. || || | cool thanks ...... Maybe some more bandwidth to play with.......Naah I doubt it (it'll be sold to the highest bidder) Who IS going to buy that part of the spectrum? There's not a lot of activity between (say) 30 and 87MHz at the moment, so I don't think that there will be as great a demand for the FM radio spectrum as some people think. -- Ian |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , DAB sounds worse than FM writes There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: I've not been following this, but if FM is switched off, what happens to the millions of car radios fitted? What about those that are built into the console and can't be swapped out? The government will offer us an extra £1000 plus to crush them and the cars they're in on enviromental grounds :-) |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In message , DAB sounds worse than
FM writes * DAB uses frequencies of around 200 MHz, whereas FM uses frequencies of around 100 MHz - i.e. DAB couldn't be transmitted in the FM band anyway Surely there's no technical reason why DAB cannot be transmitted at the present 'FM' frequencies? It is arguable that propagation and RF penetration is better than at 200MHz. All you will need is a new radio. This will be no great hardship as, the way things are going, if they change DAB to DAB+ I'm going to have to change my DAB/FM radio anyway in order to receive anything at all. -- Ian |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote: I've not been following this, but if FM is switched off, what happens to the millions of car radios fitted? What about those that are built into the console and can't be swapped out? You can often get adaptor plates to allow a 'standard' size radio to be fitted. Plenty want to upgrade the unit fitted as standard. Or use a DAB to FM convertor - just like plugging a FreeView box into the TV aerial input. -- *If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Petition to stop FM being switched off
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message ... In article , DAB sounds worse than FM writes There's a 10 Downing St petition to stop FM/AM being switched off: I've not been following this, but if FM is switched off, what happens to the millions of car radios fitted? What about those that are built into the console and can't be swapped out? as I have said before..."new technology...squandering the worlds resources"....... |
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