GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

So why not publish an extract. I found your link went to google which wnt to
other links that went to....
I gave up.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Ivan" wrote in message
...
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

Here you go BG, I'll also paste the US Air Force response mentioned at
the start.



Editor's Note: The U.S. Air Force has responded to concerns raised in
this article.

The Global Positioning System faces the possibility of failures and
blackouts, a federal watchdog agency has warned the U.S. Congress.
Mismanagement by and underinvestment by the U.S. Air Force places the
GPS at risk of failure in 2010 and beyond. The problem: Delays in
launching replacement satellites, among other things.

According to the Government Accountability Office report, "In recent
years, the Air Force has struggled to successfully build GPS
satellites within cost and schedule goals" as part of a $2 billion
modernization program.

"If the Air Force does not meet its schedule goals for development of
GPS IIIA satellites, there will be an increased likelihood that in
2010, as old satellites begin to fail, the overall GPS constellation
will fall below the number of satellites required to provide the level
of GPS service that the U.S. government commits to."

Considered by the GAO to be "essential to national security" the GPS
is also widely used by business and consumers and is a driver for
next-generation location-based mobile applications used with
smartphones and other devices.

"Such a gap in capability could have wide-ranging impacts on all GPS
users," the GAO report states, "though there are measures the Air
Force and others can take to plan for and minimize these impacts."

It is hard to imagine the U.S. government could allow this to happen.
Actually, that's a lie, it's easy to imagine, but there is also time
for corrective action to be taken. The first replacement satellite is
expected to be launched this November, some three years after the
original launch date. Speeding up future launches can solve the
problem, but is likely to come at a high price.

The American GPS, though the pioneering consumer satnav system, is not
alone. Russia, China, and India each have systems of their own, which
are being expanded.

The European Union's Galileo system, intended as a rival for GPS, is
expected to begin its rollout later this year.

The delay and potential failure of GPS gives these other nations the
potential to rival the U.S. in space, something the U.S. government is
unlikely to accept. The report is a black eye for the Air Force, which
developed the GPS system during the 1980s and has maintained it since.

At last count, David Coursey owned more than a dozen GPS devices and
expects his government to keep them working. He Tweets as dcoursey and
can be reached using the email form at www.coursey.com/contact.


US Air Force response:



The sky isn't falling and neither is the Global Positioning System,
the U.S. Air Force said during a Twitter news conference. "No, the GPS
will not go down," tweeted Col. Dave Buckman of the Air Force's Space
Command. "GAO points out, there is potential risk associated with a
degradation in GPS performance."

"The issue is under control. We are working hard to get out the word.
The issue is not whether GPS will stop working. There's only a small
risk we will not continue to exceed our performance standard," the Air
Force official said.

The tweet forum marked the first time Space Command has used its
Twitter page for a scheduled forum. During the session, held Wednesday
afternoon, the Air Force sought to allay fears raised by a Government
Accountability Office report critical of its management of the GPS
program.

"Agree w/ GAO thr's a potential risk, but GPS isn't falling out of the
sky--we have plans 2 mitigate risk & prevent a gap," the Air Force
officials said, in the clipped 140-character cadence of Twitter
conversation.

The GAO report predicated only an 80 percent likelihood the Air Force
would be able to maintain the full 24-satellite constellation over a
period between 2010 and 2014. Going below 24 satellites could result
in lower GPS performance, GAO said.

The danger of a GPS outage, though small, exists if the Air Force is
unable to improve its satellite replacement program. Currently years
behind, Space Command says it has plans to launch enough satellites to
keep the constellation above the 24-satellite threshold.

"We have 30+ satellites on orbit now. We'll launch another in Aug 09,
and again early 10. Going below 24 won't happen," the Air Force said,
counting on an improvement in its ability to get satellites into
space.

"We definitely need to keep this in perspective. Since 1995, GPS has
never failed to exceed performance standards."

Delays in the $5.8 billion program have occurred for a variety of
reasons, the GAO report stated. Among them is consolidation among
companies that supply GPS hardware to the Air Force.

GPS vendors have, not surprisingly, also said the reports of GPS'
possible demise have been overblown. Some customers have expressed
concern over whether it is safe to invest in GPS devices and vendors
have been quick to offer reassurance.

Bottom line: The Air Force says everything is covered, but if that had
been true all along this flap would not have occurred. Because GPS is
considered vital to national security, plus its wide use by business
and consumers, it is reasonable to expect whatever funds necessary
will be spent to keep GPS as operational as possible.

The Air Force's confident response is reasonable enough, but believing
it requires at least a small leap of faith by GPS users.

David Coursey uses GPS several times each day with his ham radio gear
and while driving. Follow him on Twitter and contact him using the
form located at www.coursey.com/contact.


On Wed, 27 May 2009 07:37:40 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

So why not publish an extract. I found your link went to google which wnt to
other links that went to....
I gave up.

Brian

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
So why not publish an extract. I found your link went to google which wnt
to other links that went to....
I gave up.


That's odd Brian, I clicked on the url and it took me straight PC world
page, so I can't understand what the problem was. Wherever possible I try
and resist the temptation of posting acres of text, however as a rule I do
include a few lines of the article to give people an idea of what it's
about, although in this particular case I thought that the subject line 'GPS
System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year' was sufficient on its own.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).
--
Ian

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road'

Is that the AA's 'Illustrated Road Book of England and Wales', which I have
(dated 1965) and is still wonderful? It has a pen and ink sketch of
virtually every monument and anything else you might want to see anywhere.
The labour expended on it must have been phenomenal.

Mind you, the information on early closing days isn't too useful now.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Great! With all the changes in the last 40 years those maps will
navigate you into places where there aren't places - just like GPS.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

In message , Norman Wells
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road'

Is that the AA's 'Illustrated Road Book of England and Wales', which I
have (dated 1965) and is still wonderful? It has a pen and ink sketch
of virtually every monument and anything else you might want to see
anywhere. The labour expended on it must have been phenomenal.

Mind you, the information on early closing days isn't too useful now.

No, I don't think so. It's the 'Reader's Digest AA Book of the Road' - a
hardback with a light brown cover, measuring about 6" x 12". As well as
the maps and how your car works, it has a gazetteer of 28,000 place
names (with the map references), and 'Roadside Recognition'
('Identifying the Works of Man and Nature' - buildings, monuments and
the like), flowers, trees, birds etc etc).

The motorways are as of May 1967, so not much use for the M25 and M40,
and most of the M4! While central London will still be largely accurate,
it won't tell me where the congestion charge starts. Oh happy days!
--
Ian

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On 2009-05-27, CD wrote:

the U.S. Air Force said during a Twitter news conference.

There's a phrase I never expected to see.

--
David Taylor

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

David Taylor wrote:
On 2009-05-27, CD wrote:
the U.S. Air Force said during a Twitter news conference.

There's a phrase I never expected to see.

Indeed. I'd assumed they are only normally 'lurkers' in such groups !



--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

http://www.paras.org.uk/

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

So if small bits of audio from press conferences are sound bytes, what are
twitters?

Why not load a lot of them into a Shuttle and chuck them out a few at a
time.. not being serious but the image in my mind amuses me.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-27, CD wrote:

the U.S. Air Force said during a Twitter news conference.

There's a phrase I never expected to see.

--
David Taylor

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

No I don't get it either, which is when I gave up.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Ivan" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
So why not publish an extract. I found your link went to google which wnt
to other links that went to....
I gave up.


That's odd Brian, I clicked on the url and it took me straight PC world
page, so I can't understand what the problem was. Wherever possible I try
and resist the temptation of posting acres of text, however as a rule I do
include a few lines of the article to give people an idea of what it's
about, although in this particular case I thought that the subject line
'GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year' was sufficient on its own.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On 2009-05-27, Brian Gaff wrote:
So if small bits of audio from press conferences are sound bytes, what are
twitters?

Small bits of text from twits, perhaps?

--
David Taylor

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 2009-05-27, CD wrote:

the U.S. Air Force said during a Twitter news conference.

There's a phrase I never expected to see.
David Taylor


It's the "US Airforce space command" that got me

Beam me up Scotty

Steve Terry

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

There will be other systems being rolled out later on this year "The
European Union's Galileo system, intended as a rival for GPS, is expected to
begin its rollout later this year.

However, does anyone know if our existing SatNavs will continue working
without batting an eyelid, or will they have to be upgraded, or come to that
even replaced?

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Norman Wells
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road'

Is that the AA's 'Illustrated Road Book of England and Wales', which
I have (dated 1965) and is still wonderful? It has a pen and ink
sketch of virtually every monument and anything else you might want
to see anywhere. The labour expended on it must have been phenomenal.

Mind you, the information on early closing days isn't too useful now.

No, I don't think so. It's the 'Reader's Digest AA Book of the Road'
- a hardback with a light brown cover, measuring about 6" x 12".

Nobbut a pale successor to the real thing then - 555 pages, plus road maps,
genuinely published by the AA, in a deep red binding. Every town has an
accompanying street map of the centre and GOLF is shouted at you if it has
some.


As
well as the maps and how your car works, it has a gazetteer of 28,000
place names (with the map references), and 'Roadside Recognition'
('Identifying the Works of Man and Nature' - buildings, monuments and
the like), flowers, trees, birds etc etc).

How terribly new age! I suppose it's in colour too?


The motorways are as of May 1967, so not much use for the M25 and M40,
and most of the M4! While central London will still be largely
accurate, it won't tell me where the congestion charge starts. Oh
happy days!

Motorways? What's them?

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

Ivan wrote:

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html


There will be other systems being rolled out later on this year "The
European Union's Galileo system, intended as a rival for GPS, is
expected to begin its rollout later this year.

However, does anyone know if our existing SatNavs will continue working
without batting an eyelid, or will they have to be upgraded, or come to
that even replaced?

http://www.techworld.com/mobility/ne...?newsid=101485
Galileo is incompatible with existing GPS devices.

"The agreement between the EU and the US, specifies that while Galileo
satellites will produce Galileo signals, and GPS satellites will produce
GPS signals, both signals on the ground will be compatible and
interoperable, allowing users in the future to use a device that
contains both GPS and Galileo chipsets, which are still to be defined.

Unfortunately, this will mean that existing GPS-based sat-nav devices
will require a different chipset to utilise the Galileo signal.

"The use of Galileo requires changes to the current GPS receivers,"
confirmed Javier Benedicto, Galileo project manager, ESA (European Space
Agency) Navigation Department in an emailed reply. "

D

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"David Hearn" wrote in message
...
Ivan wrote:

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

There will be other systems being rolled out later on this year "The
European Union's Galileo system, intended as a rival for GPS, is expected
to begin its rollout later this year.

However, does anyone know if our existing SatNavs will continue working
without batting an eyelid, or will they have to be upgraded, or come to
that even replaced?

http://www.techworld.com/mobility/ne...?newsid=101485
Galileo is incompatible with existing GPS devices.

"The agreement between the EU and the US, specifies that while Galileo
satellites will produce Galileo signals, and GPS satellites will produce
GPS signals, both signals on the ground will be compatible and
interoperable, allowing users in the future to use a device that contains
both GPS and Galileo chipsets, which are still to be defined.

Unfortunately, this will mean that existing GPS-based sat-nav devices will
require a different chipset to utilise the Galileo signal.

"The use of Galileo requires changes to the current GPS receivers,"
confirmed Javier Benedicto, Galileo project manager, ESA (European Space
Agency) Navigation Department in an emailed reply. "



Many thanks Dave, just as I suspected, time to buy shares in Tom-Tom before
they launch their 'new' range of SatNavs methinks!

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

In message , Mark
writes
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

You mean 'us men', of course!
--
Ian

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Thu, 28 May 2009 16:07:13 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Mark
writes
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

You mean 'us men', of course!

Would I say that ;-)

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid to
safe driving.

Bill

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:10:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid to
safe driving.

My point was very much tongue in cheek. There are some who seem to
abandon common sense and rely entirely on their sat nav otherwise we
would not see people (nearly) driving off cliffs or getting their 40
ton lorry stuck down a narrow country lane.

I've never seen the need for a sat-nav myself, but then I usually have
a navigator ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

In message , Mark
writes
On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:10:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid to
safe driving.

My point was very much tongue in cheek. There are some who seem to
abandon common sense and rely entirely on their sat nav otherwise we
would not see people (nearly) driving off cliffs or getting their 40
ton lorry stuck down a narrow country lane.

I've never seen the need for a sat-nav myself, but then I usually have
a navigator ;-)

As a direct result of her navigational skills, my navigator and I have
frequently considered that divorce was the best route to follow.
--
Ian

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Fri, 29 May 2009 10:54:53 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Mark
writes
On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:10:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid to
safe driving.

My point was very much tongue in cheek. There are some who seem to
abandon common sense and rely entirely on their sat nav otherwise we
would not see people (nearly) driving off cliffs or getting their 40
ton lorry stuck down a narrow country lane.

I've never seen the need for a sat-nav myself, but then I usually have
a navigator ;-)

As a direct result of her navigational skills, my navigator and I have
frequently considered that divorce was the best route to follow.

Potential problem:

Have the address of a recommended divorce lawyer;

Have maps;

But do not seem to be able to find the lawyer's offices.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

In message , Peter Duncanson
writes
On Fri, 29 May 2009 10:54:53 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Mark
writes
On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:10:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:15:56 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Ivan
writes
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...system_could_b
egin_to_fail_within_a_year.html

Then it's just as well that I still have my AA 'Book of the Road' and a
London 'A-to-Z' (both bought in the 1960s).

Yes, the few of us that can still read maps or look at signposts will
be in big demand.

The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid to
safe driving.

My point was very much tongue in cheek. There are some who seem to
abandon common sense and rely entirely on their sat nav otherwise we
would not see people (nearly) driving off cliffs or getting their 40
ton lorry stuck down a narrow country lane.

I've never seen the need for a sat-nav myself, but then I usually have
a navigator ;-)

As a direct result of her navigational skills, my navigator and I have
frequently considered that divorce was the best route to follow.

Potential problem:

Have the address of a recommended divorce lawyer;

Have maps;

But do not seem to be able to find the lawyer's offices.


What you need is a GPS thingy.
But isn't this where we started?
--
Ian

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:10:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:
The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route
by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid
to
safe driving.

My point was very much tongue in cheek. There are some who seem to
abandon common sense and rely entirely on their sat nav otherwise we
would not see people (nearly) driving off cliffs or getting their 40
ton lorry stuck down a narrow country lane.

All a satnav is is a map in a box. If you have an idiot driving he will be
misled just as much by an inaccurate paper map as by an inaccurate satnav.
The difference is though, that thickys don't even attempt to read maps,
whereas they do buy satnavs.

When I was a kid the way people round here used to find their way to the
seaside was to follow a trippers' bus. To get home they would look out for a
vehicle with a Doncaster reg plate (DT) and follow that. Our neighbour once
set off for Scarborough on his motorbike and sidecar and ended up in
Tadcaster looking at Mother Shipton's cave. When they got back they said it
had made a pleasant change.

Bill

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Fri, 29 May 2009 15:40:40 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 28 May 2009 20:10:19 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:
The use of a satnav and the ability to read a map are not mutually
exclusive. I use the satnav as a convenient aid, having planned my route
by
map and fed it into the dumb machine. I am convinced that this is an aid
to
safe driving.

My point was very much tongue in cheek. There are some who seem to
abandon common sense and rely entirely on their sat nav otherwise we
would not see people (nearly) driving off cliffs or getting their 40
ton lorry stuck down a narrow country lane.

All a satnav is is a map in a box. If you have an idiot driving he will be
misled just as much by an inaccurate paper map as by an inaccurate satnav.
The difference is though, that thickys don't even attempt to read maps,
whereas they do buy satnavs.

When I was a kid the way people round here used to find their way to the
seaside was to follow a trippers' bus. To get home they would look out for a
vehicle with a Doncaster reg plate (DT) and follow that. Our neighbour once
set off for Scarborough on his motorbike and sidecar and ended up in
Tadcaster looking at Mother Shipton's cave. When they got back they said it
had made a pleasant change.

More recently there was a report of research into navigation by pigeons.

Pigeons reveal map-reading secret:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3460977.stm

How do homing pigeons navigate? They follow roads
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...low-roads.html

Researchers have cracked the puzzle of how pigeons find their way
home: they just follow the main roads.
....
Some pigeons stick so rigidly to the roads that they even fly round
roundabouts before choosing the exit to lead them back to their
lofts.

Animal behaviouralists at Oxford University are stunned by their
findings

OK, when there are no roads they have to revert to magnetic and solar
navigation.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Fri, 29 May 2009 15:51:07 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote:

To get home they would look out for a vehicle with a Doncaster reg plate (DT)

Ah, I wonder if there was an archive of those codes anywhere. They used to
publish it in the old AA books, but I threw that away years ago.
I often used to while away the tedious journeys as a kid looking for local
plates (AL and NN etc.) and special numbers.
It gets more irrelevant by the day though since they went to the latest
system.

Some pigeons stick so rigidly to the roads that they even fly round
roundabouts before choosing the exit to lead them back to their
lofts.

How do they know whether to fly on the left or the right?
What happens if they meet a foreign pigeon?

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Fri, 29 May 2009 17:48:34 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
wrote:

On Fri, 29 May 2009 15:51:07 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote:



Some pigeons stick so rigidly to the roads that they even fly round
roundabouts before choosing the exit to lead them back to their
lofts.

How do they know whether to fly on the left or the right?

Good question!

What happens if they meet a foreign pigeon?

If the local pigeons are members of the BNP[1] all hell will break
loose.

[1] British Nationalist Pigeons.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

Ivan wrote:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html


More of a non story I suspect:

http://www.cringely.com/2009/05/waas-up/

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2009 15:51:07 +0100, Peter Duncanson

wrote:

To get home they would look out for a vehicle with a Doncaster reg plate
(DT)

Ah, I wonder if there was an archive of those codes anywhere. They used to
publish it in the old AA books, but I threw that away years ago.
I often used to while away the tedious journeys as a kid looking for local
plates (AL and NN etc.) and special numbers.

We had LNN 31.

Bill

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 29 May 2009 15:51:07 +0100, Peter Duncanson

wrote:

To get home they would look out for a vehicle with a
Doncaster reg plate (DT)

Ah, I wonder if there was an archive of those codes anywhere.
They used to
publish it in the old AA books, but I threw that away years
ago.
I often used to while away the tedious journeys as a kid
looking for local
plates (AL and NN etc.) and special numbers.

We had LNN 31.

Bill




This will bring back memories then.

http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/Referenc...rs.aspx#byArea

Surely Bill you would have followed ET (sic) for Rotherham?


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Sat, 30 May 2009 08:50:06 +0100, Woody wrote:

http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/Referenc...rs.aspx#byArea

Much obliged.

Looks like we are stuck with the (horrid) present system till 2049 at least.
I doubt I'll care much by then.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"Woody" wrote in message
...
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"Paul Ratcliffe" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2009 15:51:07 +0100, Peter Duncanson

wrote:

To get home they would look out for a vehicle with a Doncaster reg
plate (DT)

Ah, I wonder if there was an archive of those codes anywhere. They used
to
publish it in the old AA books, but I threw that away years ago.
I often used to while away the tedious journeys as a kid looking for
local
plates (AL and NN etc.) and special numbers.

We had LNN 31.

Bill




This will bring back memories then.

http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/Referenc...rs.aspx#byArea

Surely Bill you would have followed ET (sic) for Rotherham?

We also had RET 406. Both vehicles were old ambulances. LNN 31 was a 1948
Morris and RET 406 was a 1956 Bedford.

Bill

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
Ivan wrote:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165126/gps_system_could_begin_to_fail_within_a_year.html


More of a non story I suspect:

http://www.cringely.com/2009/05/waas-up/

These are the two geosynchronous reporting satellites, which for ease of use
in the system are treated by receivers
like regular GPS satellites except they **for some reason** don’t seem to
move in the sky.

**what part of "geosynchronous" does the author not understand?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

On Sat, 30 May 2009 22:21:58 +0100, Graham. wrote:

These are the two geosynchronous reporting satellites, which for ease of use
in the system are treated by receivers
like regular GPS satellites except they **for some reason** don?t seem to
move in the sky.

**what part of "geosynchronous" does the author not understand?

Geostationary is the usual term for objects that don't move their apparent
position in the sky. Geosynchronous ones do move, but are always in the
same place at any particular time every day.
All geostationary satellites are geosynchronous - the reverse does not
necessarily apply.
Geosynchronus is, IMHO, more usually used only for non-geostationary
satellites, even though technically wrong. Perhaps this is what the
author doesn't understand.

GPS System Could Begin to Fail Within a Year
 

In article , Peter Duncanson wrote:
How do homing pigeons navigate? They follow roads
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...low-roads.html

Researchers have cracked the puzzle of how pigeons find their way
home: they just follow the main roads.

Interesting ... I was expecting that to be dated 1st April, but it
wasn't.

I wonder whether the reason is that the birds just retrace the path
by which they were taken (presumably in a vehicle) when they were
released?

Cheers,
Daniel.