Ham radio Interference
 

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave H
scribeth thus
I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set
of aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his
contact, my picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is
unwatchable. Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on
my amplifier also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a
video recorder by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF
output (they don't make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions
but cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem. He has mentioned
some bit of equipment I could put in the 'line',even had a root around
his garage to see if he had one.

Does anyone know the legal position on this type of interference?

If I can't resolve it with him, to what body do I complain? Radio
Society of Great Britain? Ofcom?

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.


David

In general...

If he's keeping to the terms of his licence then the onus is on you to
make sure your equipment isn't affected by his transmissions.

Thats sometimes not the easiest thing to sort out;(..

The best route is co-operation and most amateurs are fine at that..

Generally the problem, is of severe overload in stages of the TV,
Satellite box, and other equipment that simply can't handle this level
of out of band power there're being subjected to.

What is generally done is a filter in line with the TV or set-top box
that keeps the interfering signal, or range of signals, out of them so
the overload/intermodulation problem doesn't happen.

Sometimes if the interfering field is -that- large then the TV might be
affected directly and thats a lot more difficult. In which case not a
lot can be done in practice. If you can give a bit more info then some
things might be suggested.

However the amateur licence does allow quite a lot of power to be
radiated and I think that in a built up area is rather socially
unacceptable to happen despite what the law might say and that was
drafted a long time ago when there was far less electronic equipment
around.

I suspect that if he's affecting you then there will be others that
haven't made the connection as yet and may be putting up with it not
knowing what it is!.

Equipment is now generally much better in this way now after years of
EMC (Electro Magnetic Compatibility) suppression and as an earlier
poster said he has to make his equipment not radiate he also in doing
that makes it much less susceptible to receiving any RF not intended for
it!.

A small demo of this can usually be noticed when a mobile phone thats in
use is held near most anything like computer speakers or a landline
phone a buzzing will sometimes be noticed.

It can be a real pain to sort out both technically and socially so if
you are on good relations then ask him what frequency bands he's
operating on, modes AM/FM SSB etc, and what sort of power he's running
and then a more detailed description of what your experiencing..

Ofcom are the legal body who deal with this and generally take a no
blame approach and will offer advice and try to mediate if they can but
unlike what another poster has suggested they will only take action if
he's radiating spurious harmonics, which is rather unlikely and hardly
ever the cause, gross overload is, or he's operating over his licensed
power buts thats a fair old bit anyway.

There is also the thorny issue that anything he does to any of your
equipment may well land him with a liability should that develop a fault
for which he will get the blame;!

So not the most straightforward problem to sort unfortunately;(....


Thank you, Tony. Another useful reply.

David

Ham radio Interference
 

Peter Crosland wrote:
I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set of
aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his contact, my
picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is unwatchable.
Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on my amplifier
also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a video recorder
by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF output (they don't
make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions but
cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem. He has mentioned
some bit of equipment I could put in the 'line',even had a root around his
garage to see if he had one.

Does anyone know the legal position on this type of interference?

If I can't resolve it with him, to what body do I complain? Radio Society
of Great Britain? Ofcom?

Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.


The legal position is that if his equipment is functioning correctly and
being operated within the terms of his licence then he is doing nothing
wrong. If the source of the interference is 200 yards away then the problem
is almost certainly in your equipment rather than his. Are you quite sure
that there is not another amateur, or much worse an illegal CB operator
using SSB nearby? There are various ways of removing the problem and it
really depends where, and how, the interference is getting into your various
pieces of equipment. With the audio kit the speaker leads are a favourite
for acting as an aerial. The RSGB have no jurisdiction at all, and in any
case he may not even be a member, but they may be able to put you in touch
with someone that can help. OFCOM are the regulatory body and if pressed
hard enough will come and investigate but they will charge you for the
visit. If at all possible try and work with the amateur concerned as he
should have the knowledge to assist.

Peter Crosland


Thank you you, Peter. A useful reply

David

Ham radio Interference
 

In theory, if he isn't radiating out of band it comes down to your
equipment lacking sufficient 'electromagnetic compatibility. In reality,
if he is running hundreds of watts into a high gain beam and pointing it
at your house there's no way your equipment can be expected to tolerate
it. The field strength will be absolutely enormous. You might be able to
minimise the problems, but I doubt if you'll eliminate them.


If the amateur is 200 yards away then the field strength will be greatly
reduced, and it is very doubtful if the problem is with the radio amateur's
equipment. My experience some twenty years ago was that even running 400
watts on 432 MHz into a large antenna I got perfect TV reception from a TV
aerial 20 feet away. The reason was that the TV got a decent TV signal and I
fitted good quality filters in the downlead. Even with the beam pointed
directly at the TV aerial there was no problem. Demonstrating this to a non
technically minded neighbour readily convinced him that his interference
problem was not in my equipment. In fact subsequent investigation found his
problem was an wrong group, old, poor quality, aerial and decrepit downlead.
Once that was replaced the problem was solved.

Peter Crosland

Ham radio Interference
 

"Dave H" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
"Dave H" wrote in message
...
Any advice would be welcome on the above or how I can minimise the
interference with a gadget.

In theory, if he isn't radiating out of band it comes down to your
equipment lacking sufficient 'electromagnetic compatibility. In reality,
if he is running hundreds of watts into a high gain beam and pointing it
at your house there's no way your equipment can be expected to tolerate
it. The field strength will be absolutely enormous. You might be able to
minimise the problems, but I doubt if you'll eliminate them.

Depending on the topography, it can help if he tilts his beam upwards a
bit.

If the matter can't be resolved by technical means you could ask him to
avoid pointing his aerial in your direction and to avoid transmitting at
times when you are likely to be watching TV. He could also reduce the
power. These are reasonable requests, and a refusal would be very
un-neighbourly. If he won't co-operate, you will have to complain
immediately on every occasion when the interference occurs. Either knock
on his door or ring him up. If you complain and the interference
continues, ring or knock again, repeatedly, until it stops.

These people should remember that in the real world their neighbours are
going to buy equipment which will not withstand the massive field
strengths they like to generate. To keep doing it when all possible
supression measures have failed is no better than having a smoky bonfire
on washing day, or a car with no silencer. It's beside the point that the
problem is technically the responsibility of the TV viewer. The hams
should remember that their hobby was founded by a fraternity that boasted
of good manners and consideration for others.

Bill
Thank you Bill. I feel some of the other posts above were a bit sarcastic.
I am not out to do any harm to my neighbour. I just want to watch the
footy without the problems I mentioned. Indeed, I was an enthusiastic SWL
of amateur radio in my teens (a few years back, now!)

David

I expected my remarks to cause the a storm of invective from the amateur
radio people. I fully expected battered Volvo estates with improbable
aerials to line up opposite my house and bombard me with RF until my head
exploded and my testicles shrivelled up.

I must try harder to be provocative next time. If I worked for the Daily
Mail I would probably have been fired by now.

Bill

Ham radio Interference
 

In article , Peter
Crosland scribeth thus
In theory, if he isn't radiating out of band it comes down to your
equipment lacking sufficient 'electromagnetic compatibility. In reality,
if he is running hundreds of watts into a high gain beam and pointing it
at your house there's no way your equipment can be expected to tolerate
it. The field strength will be absolutely enormous. You might be able to
minimise the problems, but I doubt if you'll eliminate them.


If the amateur is 200 yards away then the field strength will be greatly
reduced, and it is very doubtful if the problem is with the radio amateur's
equipment. My experience some twenty years ago was that even running


400
watts on 432 MHz into a large antenna

Blimey!, ever calculate the ERP?....

--
Tony Sayer

Ham radio Interference
 

I'm getting fed up with you having pokes at me.#

Yes I have the same first name and initial of my last name as you.

You may company happens to be called something very similar to yours.

However it's a coincidance.

GET OVER IT.

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

Ham radio Interference
 

"James R" wrote in message
...
"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...
"Dave H" wrote in message
...
I have a Ham Radio enthusiast living some 200 yards away with a big set
of aerianalia. When he turns this in my direction and talks to his
contact, my picture on Sky jumps all over the place to the extent it is
unwatchable. Just like having the vertical hold set wrong. The sound on
my amplifier also cuts out when he is talking. Sky box is connected to a
video recorder by scart and then to the TV, in the next room, by RF
output (they don't make scart leads long enough).

(Turned on the electric keyboard the other day and there he was in
glorious SSB blasting out from the speakers)

I am also getting some mild noise-type interference on other occasions
but cannot be sure it is the same source.

Have been round to see him, nice chap, but he doesn't think he is doing
anything wrong and is not obliged to solve my problem.
snip

As long as he has checked the output of this TX to be clean, he hasn't.

You will have to contact Ofcom, who will help you fit filters to your
equipment that isn't supposed to receive radio signals.

Don't worry, it's very unlikely you'll be prosecuted for receiving
transmitions you aren't licensed to
Steve Terry


You don't NEED to be licenced to listen to amateur radio transmissions.
This is not a legal requirement in the UK. The equipment is not designed
to pick up mateur radio transmissions, so it isn't even a receiver meant
for
that purpose! The interference is being caused by the radio amateur and
he must attempt to sort it out.
The original poster could always buy a number of Devolo Homeplug devices
which will ruin his HF reception instantly. I bet he would soon complain.


You seem to have trouble understanding cause and effect?

As you say his equipment isn't designed to receive radio signals,
so it must be at fault?

Or are you saying the radio amateur is transmitting some sort of audio
frequency induction transmission? As used by some cave explorers

Steve Terry

Ham radio Interference
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message
, Erica
Nurney writes
On 25 Feb, 16:18, Dave H wrote:
snip
What he is doing is definitely wrong (ie illegal) if it can be proven
that it is his equipment causing the interference.

It's not quite as simple as that. Although his equipment is 'causing' the
interference,
snip


What are you on about? What causing?

The effect is RF breakthrough on audio equipment,
the cause is poorly designed audio equipment.

There seems to be a serious lack of understanding of cause and effect on
this NG?

Steve Terry

Ham radio Interference
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Peter
Crosland scribeth thus
In theory, if he isn't radiating out of band it comes down to your
equipment lacking sufficient 'electromagnetic compatibility. In reality,
if he is running hundreds of watts into a high gain beam and pointing it
at your house there's no way your equipment can be expected to tolerate
it. The field strength will be absolutely enormous. You might be able to
minimise the problems, but I doubt if you'll eliminate them.

If the amateur is 200 yards away then the field strength will be greatly
reduced, and it is very doubtful if the problem is with the radio
amateur's
equipment. My experience some twenty years ago was that even running

400 watts on 432 MHz into a large antenna

Blimey!, ever calculate the ERP?....
Tony Sayer


If using that coax that was mentioned in another thread, about half a watt
;-)

Steve Terry

Ham radio Interference
 

"David" wrote in message
...
I always thought Radio Hams bent over backwards to solve these things even
if their not own fault.


You never get any thanks, only blame if the fuse or anything goes wrong

Steve Terry