Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

Just finished installing the Screwfix/Labgear FTA dish/receiver kit.
Thought I'd put in some comments which may be of help to others considering
buying this kit.

Firstly, Although there is a picture shown on the Screwfix site, a bit more
info can be found on the Philex site
(http://www.philex.com/parts/show/28212R seems to show the kit, but this
also includes a compass and meter). The actual number on the box is
28213R/S, and this does not include the compass or meter. The receiver has
a slot for a card, but this does not seem to do anything.

The assembly diagram includes a list of parts. A separate sheet (A4 size) is
included which is a lot easier to use than the tiny diagram supplied with
the set-up guide. There are no written instructions. Both pages show small
diagrams with the alternate wall or roof fixing positions of the bracket.
These, very misleadingly in my opinion, show the dish attached and at an
extraordinarily high angle of elevation (for Astra/Eurobird at 28°. As
there is no offset mentioned in the set-up info, it would be too easy to try
to follow this diagram for the initial angle of elevation. I had assumed it
would be 20°, but with the dish supplied it is more likely to be around 23°.
Acknowledgements to Java Jive for that info). Note that there are angle
markings (10° spacing) on the elevation bracket, but these are almost
entirely obscured when the dish is assembled, and don't appear to be of much
use. A list of useful tools is provided. To that list I would add a 10mm
socket (with extension).

Fortunately, I did not need to use the dish bracket, as some comments on the
Screwfix site question the strength of this. There is a comment in one
review that the M4 fixing anchors are inadequate. Well, as far as I can
see - and as the parts guide states - the anchors are M6. That reviewer
goes on to add that the dish fixing bracket will only take 32mm diameter
poles. However, my dish is fixed to a 40mm pole already used for the TV
aerials. Oddly, that bracket (on the dish side) appears to be slightly
asymmetric, as it has an arrow on it (maybe meant to point upwards when
fixed, so that a small lug on the dish bracket might fix over the top of the
wall-fixing bracket supplied, and perhaps to hold on the plastic cover for
the wall-fixing bracket?). Very fortunately, the roof overhang meant that
the existing aerial pole was at the extreme end of longish T and K brackets,
so the dish could be mounted between these brackets, almost resting on the
bottom one (T), and at a 70° or so angle to the wall when pointing at 28°E.
Note that the almost vertical nature of this 60cm dish when aligned means
there is still a reasonable amount of space between it and the pole. The
LNB can be fitted easily, and there are angle markings on its bracket to
assist with the polarisation angle required.

A 10 metre length of PF100 cable is provided, but only 2 F plugs (which are
too big for the cable. The excellent - and simple - advice from experienced
members of this newsgroup was to wrap insulating tape round the cable to
increase its diameter). If a satellite finder meter is to be used, a couple
of extra F plugs will be required (rather perversely, if you get Maxview F
plugs from Wilkinsons, these are too small for the PF100!). I bought an SLX
(Labgear/Philex) sat finder/meter from Screwfix to help align the dish. I
used www.dishpointer.com to see the direction the dish should be aimed at,
as I found it much easier than using a compass (particularly as the dish is
magnetic).

With the TV, sat receiver, sat finder, and LNB connected as stated in the
set-up, I turned on the power. The dish elevation and azimuth were not far
off, as I only had to move it slightly to get an audio signal from the sat
finder. Unfortunately, its meter didn't move! Nor did the sensitivity
control do much. In the end, I aligned the dish just using the audio
signal. This has a very sharp on/off positional sensitivity. The sound was
either there or not; it didn't seem to vary. I do not know if this is
usual, but the finder was obviously faulty as the meter and sensitivity
control were not working.

When I had aligned the dish, I tightened the bolts a single turn at a time,
moving between them. It just looked as though if one was tightened
completely, then another, the dish would realign to the position of the
first tightened bolt. I was probably being overcautious, but could afford
to be as I wasn't stuck up a ladder in an awkward position (I was on a flat
garage roof).

The receiver seemed simple to operate, and it was straightforward to search
automatically on Astra 2. Note that Eurobird 1 is not mentioned in the sat
list, but a search on Astra 2 covers it as well. At some stage I may need
to realign the dish as signal quality is only 46 - 49% (it was too cold to
stay up on the garage roof in this freezing weather!). The 300+ FTA signals
from Astra2/Eurobird1 were stored without problem. Some of the more obscure
stations are weak and there is infrequent blocking, but the freesat stations
seem ok. I did get the receiver to lock up once after fiddling with lot of
the system installation settings. What is not mentioned in the User's
Manual is that you have to remove power for a minute or so, then switch back
on, and the receiver reboots. Fortunately, a real on/off switch is provided
on the back of the receiver.

In use, the remote is easy to use, and the receiver seems fine. I would most
certainly recommend this kit as a cheap way to get into satellite reception
if you are confident of your DIY skills in this area. If not, leave it to
the professionals.

--
Jeff

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Just finished installing the Screwfix/Labgear FTA dish/receiver kit.
Thought I'd put in some comments which may be of help to others
considering
buying this kit.

Firstly, Although there is a picture shown on the Screwfix site, a bit
more
info can be found on the Philex site
(http://www.philex.com/parts/show/28212R seems to show the kit, but this
also includes a compass and meter). The actual number on the box is
28213R/S, and this does not include the compass or meter. The receiver
has
a slot for a card, but this does not seem to do anything.

The assembly diagram includes a list of parts. A separate sheet (A4 size)
is
included which is a lot easier to use than the tiny diagram supplied with
the set-up guide. There are no written instructions. Both pages show
small
diagrams with the alternate wall or roof fixing positions of the bracket.
These, very misleadingly in my opinion, show the dish attached and at an
extraordinarily high angle of elevation (for Astra/Eurobird at 28°. As
there is no offset mentioned in the set-up info, it would be too easy to
try
to follow this diagram for the initial angle of elevation. I had assumed
it
would be 20°, but with the dish supplied it is more likely to be around
23°.
Acknowledgements to Java Jive for that info). Note that there are angle
markings (10° spacing) on the elevation bracket, but these are almost
entirely obscured when the dish is assembled, and don't appear to be of
much
use. A list of useful tools is provided. To that list I would add a 10mm
socket (with extension).

Fortunately, I did not need to use the dish bracket, as some comments on
the
Screwfix site question the strength of this. There is a comment in one
review that the M4 fixing anchors are inadequate. Well, as far as I can
see - and as the parts guide states - the anchors are M6. That reviewer
goes on to add that the dish fixing bracket will only take 32mm diameter
poles. However, my dish is fixed to a 40mm pole already used for the TV
aerials. Oddly, that bracket (on the dish side) appears to be slightly
asymmetric, as it has an arrow on it (maybe meant to point upwards when
fixed, so that a small lug on the dish bracket might fix over the top of
the
wall-fixing bracket supplied, and perhaps to hold on the plastic cover for
the wall-fixing bracket?). Very fortunately, the roof overhang meant that
the existing aerial pole was at the extreme end of longish T and K
brackets,
so the dish could be mounted between these brackets, almost resting on the
bottom one (T), and at a 70° or so angle to the wall when pointing at
28°E.
Note that the almost vertical nature of this 60cm dish when aligned means
there is still a reasonable amount of space between it and the pole. The
LNB can be fitted easily, and there are angle markings on its bracket to
assist with the polarisation angle required.

A 10 metre length of PF100 cable is provided, but only 2 F plugs (which
are
too big for the cable. The excellent - and simple - advice from
experienced
members of this newsgroup was to wrap insulating tape round the cable to
increase its diameter). If a satellite finder meter is to be used, a
couple
of extra F plugs will be required (rather perversely, if you get Maxview F
plugs from Wilkinsons, these are too small for the PF100!). I bought an
SLX
(Labgear/Philex) sat finder/meter from Screwfix to help align the dish. I
used www.dishpointer.com to see the direction the dish should be aimed at,
as I found it much easier than using a compass (particularly as the dish
is
magnetic).

With the TV, sat receiver, sat finder, and LNB connected as stated in the
set-up, I turned on the power. The dish elevation and azimuth were not
far
off, as I only had to move it slightly to get an audio signal from the sat

finder. Unfortunately, its meter didn't move! Nor did the sensitivity
control do much. In the end, I aligned the dish just using the audio
signal. This has a very sharp on/off positional sensitivity. The sound
was
either there or not; it didn't seem to vary. I do not know if this is
usual, but the finder was obviously faulty as the meter and sensitivity
control were not working.

When I had aligned the dish, I tightened the bolts a single turn at a
time,
moving between them. It just looked as though if one was tightened
completely, then another, the dish would realign to the position of the
first tightened bolt. I was probably being overcautious, but could afford
to be as I wasn't stuck up a ladder in an awkward position (I was on a
flat
garage roof).

The receiver seemed simple to operate, and it was straightforward to
search
automatically on Astra 2. Note that Eurobird 1 is not mentioned in the
sat
list, but a search on Astra 2 covers it as well. At some stage I may need
to realign the dish as signal quality is only 46 - 49% (it was too cold to
stay up on the garage roof in this freezing weather!). The 300+ FTA
signals
from Astra2/Eurobird1 were stored without problem. Some of the more
obscure
stations are weak and there is infrequent blocking, but the freesat
stations
seem ok. I did get the receiver to lock up once after fiddling with lot
of
the system installation settings. What is not mentioned in the User's
Manual is that you have to remove power for a minute or so, then switch
back
on, and the receiver reboots. Fortunately, a real on/off switch is
provided
on the back of the receiver.

In use, the remote is easy to use, and the receiver seems fine. I would
most
certainly recommend this kit as a cheap way to get into satellite
reception
if you are confident of your DIY skills in this area. If not, leave it to
the professionals.

--
Jeff



How much did you pay, B&Q have these on clearance for 30£
I thought of picking up a few just for the heck of it :/

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

mr deo wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Just finished installing the Screwfix/Labgear FTA dish/receiver kit.
Thought I'd put in some comments which may be of help to others
considering buying this kit.

(snip)


How much did you pay, B&Q have these on clearance for 30£
I thought of picking up a few just for the heck of it :/

Was £48.93. Where is the same thing shown on the B&Q website?

--
Jeff

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:25:12 -0000, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

I had assumed it
would be 20°, but with the dish supplied it is more likely to be around 23°.
Acknowledgements to Java Jive for that info).

Glad to have helped.

I
used www.dishpointer.com to see the direction the dish should be aimed at

Traitor!-) You should have used ...


http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Audi...alculator.html

.... although you've just reminded me that I meant to answer the
following question from you from another thread, but on the day I was
having trouble with last minute glitches to my own satellite finder
above, so maybe you did try, and found it wanting. If so, apologies
for any inconvenience caused, it's working now, though I shan't really
rest easy until I get some feedback from IE7/8 users.

From the previous thread:
I've had a look at your website (which shows the
ArcCos calc), and there is a lot of useful stuff on it. I would like to get
a general intro to satellite reception; are there any websites you could
recommend (other than Bill's)?

I'm afraid not really. In fact one of the motivations for putting my
pages on the subject together was an awareness following many
wearisome searches that, if it existed at all, the sort of information
I wanted was very much spread around in little chunks over other
sites. For example, I got a lot of early information from ...

http://www.satsig.net/

.... while the calculation for the offset angle and the information
regarding the non-standard skew on Astra 2D came from ...

http://www.satlex.de/en/azel_calc-pa...ountry_code=uk

.... the LNB information came from ...

www.satcure.co.uk

.... and the analogy of a rotating a partially unbent paper-clip
between your fingers to help understand how a rotor and dish assembly
work came from a chat thread I've now forgotten where, and was indeed
a great help to me in the early stages of getting together the
background to my analysis on H-H rotors.

The rest of that page, btw, concerning how surprisingly accurate, in
principle at least, they can be, is AFAIAC totally original - it may
well be that rotor manufacturers' engineering teams have produced a
similar analysis, but I'm reasonably certain no-one has published
before anything similar in an accessible form on the web, for I
searched comprehensively, to no avail, with the result that I had to
sweat the mathematical sweat myself.

And I still haven't been able to find anything better than hearsay on
the satellites with non-standard skews. Unbelievably, even those
satellite owners' pages that are linked from my introduction make
absolutely no mention of it!

So you'll find useful info at all the above links, but where I hope my
pages help is drawing it all together into a reasonably readable and
reasonably complete whole.

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
mr deo wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Just finished installing the Screwfix/Labgear FTA dish/receiver kit.
Thought I'd put in some comments which may be of help to others
considering buying this kit.

(snip)


How much did you pay, B&Q have these on clearance for 30£
I thought of picking up a few just for the heck of it :/

Was £48.93. Where is the same thing shown on the B&Q website?

--
Jeff



It's on a clearance rack in my local B&Q (not a supercenter). I went back
in today and they were still there, I think the lack of HDMI/COMPOSITE
outputs is offputting.

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

Java Jive wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:25:12 -0000, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

I had assumed it
would be 20°, but with the dish supplied it is more likely to be around
23°. Acknowledgements to Java Jive for that info).

Glad to have helped.

I
used www.dishpointer.com to see the direction the dish should be aimed at

Traitor!-) You should have used ...


http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/Audi...alculator.html

Heh. I used Dishpointer a few months ago - hence my original concern about
the trees. I then reused it just before installation, to make sure I had
up-to-date positioning. I did try your sat calculator, but it wasn't
working properly. AFAIR, the map appeared, but not the line!

I've just tried it again, and everything seems to be ok (that's with IE7).
However, I think it would be helpful to add a "satellite" view option (as
Dishpointer has). Despite any distortion issues which I acknowledge you do
refer to, it is much easier to line up the dish azimuth on a physical object
that you can see rather than a map (in my case, the edge of the roof apex at
the front of a neighbour's house). The main problem I have with Dishpointer
(and for that matter Satsig), is that my UK post code appears to be the same
as one in Germany, and using it brings up a map around Nuremburg! I also
found the elevation info useful on the Dishpointer site (ie line of site -
obstacle height checker) as I was concerned about those trees. Sorry - but
I hope that this is constructive criticism.

One thing that puzzles me is that Dishpointer gives the LNB skew as -13.6°,
whereas the other sites (including yours) give it as -21.1°. Why the
difference?

... although you've just reminded me that I meant to answer the
following question from you from another thread, but on the day I was
having trouble with last minute glitches to my own satellite finder
above, so maybe you did try, and found it wanting. If so, apologies
for any inconvenience caused, it's working now, though I shan't really
rest easy until I get some feedback from IE7/8 users.

I'm using IE7. I tried using Opera (version 9.63 build 10426) but although
your calculator page is shown, the box options on the drop-down arrow are
invisible! As soon as the drop down arrow is clicked the first option
appears, but all the others are blank. They only appear when the mouse
pointer is over them (eg you can set the entry method to "UK postcode", when
the UK postcode box appears - but as soon as you start to type in the
postcode, the "UK postcode" in the entry method box disappears! It is
there, though, even though it cannot be seen). Similarly all the other
boxes can be completed, and the settings will appear. Both maps appear on
clicking the respective boxes, but without the line to the satellite (rather
like the original IE problem?).


From the previous thread:
I've had a look at your website (which shows the
ArcCos calc), and there is a lot of useful stuff on it. I would like to
get a general intro to satellite reception; are there any websites you
could recommend (other than Bill's)?

I'm afraid not really. In fact one of the motivations for putting my
pages on the subject together was an awareness following many
wearisome searches that, if it existed at all, the sort of information
I wanted was very much spread around in little chunks over other
sites. For example, I got a lot of early information from ...

http://www.satsig.net/

... while the calculation for the offset angle and the information
regarding the non-standard skew on Astra 2D came from ...

http://www.satlex.de/en/azel_calc-pa...ountry_code=uk

... the LNB information came from ...

www.satcure.co.uk

... and the analogy of a rotating a partially unbent paper-clip
between your fingers to help understand how a rotor and dish assembly
work came from a chat thread I've now forgotten where, and was indeed
a great help to me in the early stages of getting together the
background to my analysis on H-H rotors.

The rest of that page, btw, concerning how surprisingly accurate, in
principle at least, they can be, is AFAIAC totally original - it may
well be that rotor manufacturers' engineering teams have produced a
similar analysis, but I'm reasonably certain no-one has published
before anything similar in an accessible form on the web, for I
searched comprehensively, to no avail, with the result that I had to
sweat the mathematical sweat myself.

And I still haven't been able to find anything better than hearsay on
the satellites with non-standard skews. Unbelievably, even those
satellite owners' pages that are linked from my introduction make
absolutely no mention of it!

So you'll find useful info at all the above links, but where I hope my
pages help is drawing it all together into a reasonably readable and
reasonably complete whole.

They are. Keep up the good work!

There is one thing I would like to see covered. And that is the simple fact
that it is not straightforward to receive more than one satellite channel at
the same time as another. As far as I have been able to discover (and I
don't know if it is correct or not), each LNB requires a separate coax cable
to connect to separate receivers. I only noticed this when looking at
photos of the back of the Humax Freesat HDR, where it was apparent there was
an LNB1 _and_ an LNB2 socket. Having had a Hummy Freeview HDR for a couple
of years, where I am used to recording two programmes (and perhaps watching
another if the mux is right), with just a single aerial input, this
two-input Freesat HDR puzzled me. Yes, the Freesat HDR notes stated that
you could record one programme while watching another, but that was it. I
have no experience of Sky, but understand the Sky box which records one
channel whilst another is being watched uses two separate feeds from two
LNBs. Is that right?

It's just that us terrestrial-based beasts are so used to having one aerial
(or a couple pointing at different transmitters which are easily combined on
the mast) and one cable down, from which everything can be split off, that
it just doesn't occur to us more than one downlead will be required from a
dish with two or more LNBs. I would love this to be wrong, as it would
simplify things considerably.

--
Jeff

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:19:38 -0000, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

I've just tried it again, and everything seems to be ok (that's with IE7).
However, I think it would be helpful to add a "satellite" view option (as
Dishpointer has).

Actually, it 's already there ... the Help is in green because it's a
'toggle', click on it and more help appears (as you appear to have
missed this, perhaps I should think of something other than the colour
to make it more obvious). Under the Help, it explains that the + sign
near the top-right of the Google map is a layer switcher that can be
used to choose the type of map - streetplan, satellite, or a
combination of the two. The reason the satellite view is not the
default is that it takes a lot longer to load, so it is more efficient
to get the maps centred and at the right sort of zoom, then change to
satellite view. Again, perhaps I should add that to the help.

The main problem I have with Dishpointer
(and for that matter Satsig), is that my UK post code appears to be the same
as one in Germany, and using it brings up a map around Nuremburg!

But not, I hope, mine?

I also
found the elevation info useful on the Dishpointer site (ie line of site -
obstacle height checker) as I was concerned about those trees.

TBH, I can't see the point of it? What you really need to know is the
angle subtended by the tree's height at the dish site. This can
either be measured directly with a protractor, or calculated using
trigonometry, for which you need to know both the distance to the tree
and its height. Unless you are going to actually climb to the very
top of the tree with a very long tape measure dangling from your
mouth, how are you going to know the height of it? Actually, the
easiest way to establish such a height that you can't easily measure
is by trigonometry, using, ahem, the angle subtended by the height at
a known distance away!

So all in all, why not just measure its angle at the dish site as
accurately as you can with a protractor? Or more correctly, hold the
protractor level at the dish mounting height and measure the part of
the tree that is above that point, which obviously should be make an
angle less than the satellite elevation.

Sorry - but
I hope that this is constructive criticism.

Yes certainly, thanks very much. For example, I had thought the Help
was now adequate, but I realise that it still isn't.

One thing that puzzles me is that Dishpointer gives the LNB skew as -13.6°,
whereas the other sites (including yours) give it as -21.1°. Why the
difference?

This is the non-standard skew I have referred to. I have seen at
least two estimates of the correction required, and IIRC they vary by
the best part of a degree, though I guess such a difference is not
usually a worry with skew. I will eventually have to say something
about this on my site, but I'm still hoping to find some hard rather
than second or third hand information to give.

though I shan't really
rest easy until I get some feedback from IE7/8 users.

I'm using IE7.

I had a very specific problem with Dynamic HTML and IE6 which didn't
appear either in Opera or Firefox, and I think and hope won't appear
in IE7+, but to be certain, I need a certain test procedure to be
followed. If you or other IE7+ users are willing to spare further
time, I'd be very grateful. I have appended the test procedure below,
in hope ...

I tried using Opera (version 9.63 build 10426) but although
your calculator page is shown, the box options on the drop-down arrow are
invisible!

Yes, Opera doesn't follow the site's stylesheet correctly. For select
tags, it loads the site's background-color setting but not the site's
color setting, resulting in black on dark blue! As it's an Opera
problem rather than a problem with my site, and there are very few
Opera users out there (2% on my site), I shall not attempt to correct
it on the site. However I have logged it as a bug with Opera and have
received some indication that they are looking into it. This is
explained under the Notes 'toggle'.

Both maps appear on
clicking the respective boxes, but without the line to the satellite (rather
like the original IE problem?).

I've just checked it in Opera 9.63 and on screen I get both a marker
and a line, though neither will appear in print preview or actually
print. Again this latter seems to be an Opera problem, so I have
logged it with them as a bug. However, as far as the screen is
concerned, you should get both the marker and the line. Perhaps you
need to force a reload of the page, so that any historical cached
content is updated with the now working page?

They are. Keep up the good work!

Thanks, as time and opportunity allows, I shall.

There is one thing I would like to see covered. And that is the simple fact
that it is not straightforward to receive more than one satellite channel at
the same time as another. As far as I have been able to discover (and I
don't know if it is correct or not), each LNB requires a separate coax cable
to connect to separate receivers.

AFAIAA most recorders will let you watch any of a handful of channels
on the same satellite transponder/signal characteristics while
recording another of them, and this doesn't require a separate feed,
but to be able to watch and record ANY COMBINATION of channels from
any one satellite cluster, you need a twin LNB, a separate downlead on
each output, each connected to one of the twin inputs on a receiver
with twin tuners. If you want to watch any one and record any other
two, assuming there's a receiver that can do it, then it's three of
everything, and so on.

I only noticed this when looking at
photos of the back of the Humax Freesat HDR, where it was apparent there was
an LNB1 _and_ an LNB2 socket.

I'm not sure about that particular box, but I would imagine that it is
genuinely a twin tuner receiver as described above, with twin inputs
which if connected to twin downleads from a twin LNB would indeed
enable you to watch any one channel from the satellite cluster while
recording any other.

However, be aware that many single feed boxes have two F-connectors on
the back, one of which may be marked 'In' and the other 'Out', or
similar, and these are not twin feed twin tuner receivers, but
receivers with loopthrough.

In loopthrough, the 'In' will be connected to the LNB in the normal
way, the 'Out' to a second receiver, perhaps an analogue one, or one
with slot and CAMs for receiving encrypted content, or perhaps a Sky
box, and the signal is then available to the second box when the first
is in standby.

This should not be confused with RF output from a terrestrial
receiver, say from a VCR, which can often be looped through the aerial
system to the TV. For one thing, AIUI usually you can't use both
boxes at once, though I believe with some combinations, the same
transponder/signal characteristics can work as described above for
simultaneous recording and watching. For another, you're not using
the downlead to convey a signal that didn't emanate in the LNB.
Finally you'd get much better quality out of the second box than by
transferring signals using RF out.

I
have no experience of Sky, but understand the Sky box which records one
channel whilst another is being watched uses two separate feeds from two
LNBs. Is that right?

Neither have I, but AIUI yes, or a perhaps more commonly a twin LNB.
However, it may that where the same transponder/signal characteristics
situation happens to apply, as described above, one can watch one and
record two, but that's just a guess on my part.

It's just that us terrestrial-based beasts are so used to having one aerial
(or a couple pointing at different transmitters which are easily combined on
the mast) and one cable down, from which everything can be split off, that
it just doesn't occur to us more than one downlead will be required from a
dish with two or more LNBs. I would love this to be wrong, as it would
simplify things considerably.

It is possible to achieve something similar by switching between LNB
outputs using one or more DiSEqC switches ...
http://www.satellitedish.com/DiSEq_Guide.htm
.... but unless you have very unusual requirements and/or an
exceptionally tortuous cable run, it's probably cheaper and easier to
have twin downleads.

HTHs

Test Procedure For IE7+
=======================

0) Probably best to read the Help (click on the word) and the Notes
(ditto) as an aid to understanding the following ...

1) Choose a UK location covered by both maps.

2) Press the Google Map button to create a Google map. Do NOT create
an Ordnance Survey one just yet. While the map is loading, click the
Help and/or Notes toggles to dynamically change the page layout. The
map and/or the marker should load into the correct part of the page
despite its layout being changed on the fly.

3) Once the page has finished loading, go into the layer switcher and
change the base layer a few times, letting it load fully between each
change, but *while* it is loading, again try to break it by clicking
the Help and/or Notes toggles. Again the new layer should load into
the correct part of the page, and should not change geographical
location as a result of the layer changing. Are both these tests,
which IE6 fails without special programming, correctly passed?

4) Go into print preview, at this stage the printout should be two
pages long. Is it?

5) You can close the Print Preview for now.

6) Now click the button to create an OS map. It will appear
underneath the Google map. While it is loading, try clicking Help
and/or Notes again. Again the map should load into the correct part
of the page, despite the layout changing on the fly.

7) Allowing for any distortion by perspective in the satellite
photos, the markers should mark the same spot. As best you can tell,
do they?

8) Now repeat the layer switching exercise of Step 3. The addition
of the second map should not have altered things, so does the map
still load into the correct part of the page despite the dynamically
changing layout, and do the either the map or the marker now move on
switching layers?

9) Finally, select hybrid base layer.

10) Test the alt-double-click functionality. Doing this anywhere on
either map, but not on a marker, should update the calculator values
with the new location, and in turn this should cause the maps and
markers to be recentred on the new location.

11) Go into print preview again, it should now be 3 pages long.

12) Does the preview show the Google hybrid layer fully, as both
photos and map overlay?

13) Are the markers and lines visible?

14) Print.

15) Did the hybrid layer print correctly, or was just one or other
layer printed (usually just the map overlay)?

16) Did the markers and lines print properly?

17) Did the printout fill the three pages, or did it stray over onto
extra pages? If the latter, what were your margin settings?

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

Java Jive wrote:

The content of this thread is getting a bit too long!

I'll try your IE7+ test procedure tomorrow (I hope to have time then), and
will report back.

--
Jeff

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

Many thanks in advance ...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:58:30 -0000, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

Java Jive wrote:

The content of this thread is getting a bit too long!

I'll try your IE7+ test procedure tomorrow (I hope to have time then), and
will report back.

Observations on Screwfix FTA satellite kit
 

Jeff has PMed me with the results of his testing, and to my disgust -
I had previously given it the benefit of the doubt as to whether it
was a significantly better browser - I have discovered that IE7
behaves almost as badly as IE6. I can only presume therefore that
others have encountered problems on the site when using IE7, but
haven't cared to mention it. If so, apologies for any inconvenience
caused.

Accordingly I've now changed the code to apply the IE6 'fixes' to all
versions of IE. Hopefully IE7+ users will now be able to use the site
as well as originally intended.

I've also included programming to allow for the handful of satellites
that have non-standard skew, and updated the Help and the Notes.

Thanks very much for your help Jeff. I'm most grateful.

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:00:24 +0000, Java Jive wrote:

Many thanks in advance ...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:58:30 -0000, "Jeff Layman"
wrote:

I'll try your IE7+ test procedure tomorrow (I hope to have time then), and
will report back.