OT reversing cameras.
 

Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

In message , Colin Stamp
wrote
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...


Your white reversing light will give enough illumination in the dark and
possibly you are worrying too much about the low light performance of
the camera..

Probably more important is the focal length of the lens, and its depth
of focus. You need to be able to judge distances accurately which may
not be possible unless the field of view of the lens/camera combination
is similar to that of you eyes.

Putting the camera in the bumper may also limit your ability to reverse
using the resultant picture alone, assuming that you can keep the lens
clean.

Don't forget that your insurance may be invalid for non-approved
modifications.

--
Alan
news2006 {at} amac {dot} f2s {dot} com

OT reversing cameras.
 

Thanks for the reply.

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 18:02:16 +0000, Alan
wrote:

Your white reversing light will give enough illumination in the dark and
possibly you are worrying too much about the low light performance of
the camera..

I was hoping that would be the case. The last cheapo colour camera I
bought wouldn't have been up to the job, but that was many years ago.
I guess the sensitivity has improved a lot since then.


Probably more important is the focal length of the lens, and its depth
of focus. You need to be able to judge distances accurately which may
not be possible unless the field of view of the lens/camera combination
is similar to that of you eyes.

I would probably go for about a 120 degree field of view. I'm hoping
most of them will have a reasonable depth of field because of the
small sensor, but I'm not after ultimate quality - just a view of the
wheelie-bin.


Putting the camera in the bumper may also limit your ability to reverse
using the resultant picture alone, assuming that you can keep the lens
clean.

It'd be nice to get it above the back window. I haven't really checked
it out yet, but I doubt I could make a neat job of installing one
there. At the moment I get no view at-all after dark, so it'll be an
improvement over that whatever happens.


Don't forget that your insurance may be invalid for non-approved
modifications.

The last stereo upgrade I did just increased the premium by a few
quid. Hopefully, this'll be a similar story. I can't see them moaning
too much about the camera in particular. Fingers crossed...

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post,

We like OT, because on-topic can be boring.

Anyway, reversing cameras. A few unconnected thoughts, based not on
hypothesis but experience.

Don't be tempted by monochrome. Low light yes, but colour is far better for
aiding perception when looking at a small screen. Monochrome is just
confusing. I don't know how colourblind people drive, other than badly (wait
for the letters written in green ink, although how would they know which ink
they are using?). Low light colour bullets are sensitive enough.

If possible mount the camera so the view includes the back of the vehicle.
This makes it very much easier to figure out what you're looking at, how far
away it is, etc.

Don't put the camera on the bumper. You are creating big blind spots at the
rear corners of the vehicle, plus a false sense of security. Crunch.

You either need to have a camera or monitor that mirrors the image, or, in
the view is significantly downwards, mount the camera upside down. Believe
it or not this looks totally natural on the monitor, like an aerial view.

If you use a bullet cam you will be amazed at how long it stays clean (and
doesn't get rained up) if it is recessed an inch and is looking downwards. I
know you have contraints with a car as to which way it looks though.

IR is a bit crap really. Fixed focus bullets always look blurred, and it's
hard not to get hot spots. And of course no colour.

Reversing lights tend to give hotspots and areas of murky darkness. Try it,
then add a couple of 12V LED arrays in the back window or wherever (one time
we actually put them inside the reversing lamp glass!), possibly with
diffusers made by sanding the glass front (if there is one).

http://www.misumi.com.tw/ac.htm seems to be accurate for view angles, but
don't forget many monitors overscan a bit. Be aware that some cams are 1/4"
and some are 1/3" and the difference in view angle is really significant.
Needless to say the very wide angle cams give a picture that's horribly
distorted.

Sorry if some of this is 'grandmother sucking eggs' or irrelevant to your
purpose.

Bill

OT reversing cameras.
 

So the best way to fit one to my Transit would be upside down aboce
the rear doors?

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't
noticed...


You will probably have to get out and clean road dirt off the
lens...........almost every time you want to reverse.

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

Have you driven a car with a rear view camera picture?
My Nissan has the feature as standard I just can't get used to it and do not
look at it, just use my mirrors. It may well be me but you might consider
if an aid to you before going a head particulary as you going to put holes
in your car.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

OT reversing cameras.
 

In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Plain ol' reversing sensors are much more use.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT reversing cameras.
 

wrote in message
...
So the best way to fit one to my Transit would be upside down aboce
the rear doors?

If you just want a reversing aid yes. I've done four like that. It works out
that with a high top van and the camera on the ladder racks (or otherwise
high on the roof) a 3.6mm lens with a 1/3" sensor gives you about 18" to
each side of the back of the van at ground level. This overlaps with the
mirrors OK. The view to the rear is about 6ft at ground level.

For vans with no rear windows a rearward looking camera is great. This needs
to be a good low light unit, ideally with a 4mm to 9mm varifocal. Recently
I've used a Night Devil from System Q for this and it works great.

BTW System Q are a terrific firm. Amazing showroom where they let you try
anything out. Very helpful; will go through things with you if you aren't
sure. Trade only though.

Bill

OT reversing cameras.
 

Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the surprising
discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the completely dark
garden opposite. Within a few seconds it would clearly show details that I
could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.



"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't
noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

Colin Stamp wrote:
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.

And if Colin doesn't mind me asking a similar question......

My Nissan Maxima QX came with a factory-fitted sat-nav system, with an LCD
colour monitor that pops up out of the dashboard. I prefer to use my TomTom
as I can load up my own POIs etc., so I'm wondering if anyone has tried
adapting the LCD monitor of a factory-fitted sat-nav to use with a camera
instead? How did you go about it?

Cheers,

Fred

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Fred" [email protected] wrote in message
...


My Nissan Maxima QX came with a factory-fitted sat-nav system, with an LCD
colour monitor that pops up out of the dashboard. I prefer to use my
TomTom as I can load up my own POIs etc., so I'm wondering if anyone has
tried adapting the LCD monitor of a factory-fitted sat-nav to use with a
camera instead? How did you go about it?

My Nissan does have the rear camera, the console does have a SatNav button.
I've not got the SatNav but was an extra I could have had. The next model
up did have it as standard.
So I guess the neccesary connections might well be there.
--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

OT reversing cameras.
 

David wrote:
"Fred" [email protected] wrote in message
...


My Nissan Maxima QX came with a factory-fitted sat-nav system, with
an LCD colour monitor that pops up out of the dashboard. I prefer to
use my TomTom as I can load up my own POIs etc., so I'm wondering if
anyone has tried adapting the LCD monitor of a factory-fitted
sat-nav to use with a camera instead? How did you go about it?

My Nissan does have the rear camera, the console does have a SatNav
button. I've not got the SatNav but was an extra I could have had. The
next model up did have it as standard.
So I guess the neccesary connections might well be there.

Please reply to News Group

Ah, brilliant. Thanks David

OT reversing cameras.
 

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the
surprising discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the
completely dark garden opposite. Within a few seconds it would clearly
show details that I could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.

It's very unusual for a monochrome camera to adjust white balance.

Bill

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 10:14:29 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Plain ol' reversing sensors are much more use.

The car already has sensors front and back, and they're much more
useful than I thought they would be. I'd still find it comforting to
be able to see where I'm going though. There's also the worrying
number of back bumpers I see around sporting both sensors and dents.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:03:50 -0000, "David"
wrote:



"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
.. .
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

Have you driven a car with a rear view camera picture?

No. I've never had one, nor felt like it'd be worth fitting one,
before getting my current car.

My Nissan has the feature as standard I just can't get used to it and do not
look at it, just use my mirrors. It may well be me but you might consider
if an aid to you before going a head particulary as you going to put holes
in your car.

Could be, but since it seems like I won't need a particularly
expensive camera, I might get one to play with.

Cheers,

Colin.


--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:58:01 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the surprising
discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the completely dark
garden opposite. Within a few seconds it would clearly show details that I
could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.

That's interesting. One thought I had was to try to find a very
sensitive camera and fit that looking down from inside the back window
at the top. It'd certainly make fitting a lot easier if it could see
through the crummy privacy glass. Maybe that's a real possibility
then.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Sat, 6 Dec 2008 22:49:14 -0000, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
.. .
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post,

We like OT, because on-topic can be boring.

Anyway, reversing cameras. A few unconnected thoughts, based not on
hypothesis but experience.

Don't be tempted by monochrome. Low light yes, but colour is far better for
aiding perception when looking at a small screen. Monochrome is just
confusing. I don't know how colourblind people drive, other than badly (wait
for the letters written in green ink, although how would they know which ink
they are using?). Low light colour bullets are sensitive enough.

Good news. That improves the choice of cameras no-end.

If possible mount the camera so the view includes the back of the vehicle.
This makes it very much easier to figure out what you're looking at, how far
away it is, etc.

Don't put the camera on the bumper. You are creating big blind spots at the
rear corners of the vehicle, plus a false sense of security. Crunch.

I'll have to have a play around to find he best place to put it and
get the best compromise. I don't think there is a position that will
give no blind spots at-all. I guess the closest thing to looking
through the back window would be to mount it above the window. I'll
have to have a think about whether I can do it without it looking too
much of a bodge.


You either need to have a camera or monitor that mirrors the image, or, in
the view is significantly downwards, mount the camera upside down. Believe
it or not this looks totally natural on the monitor, like an aerial view.

If you use a bullet cam you will be amazed at how long it stays clean (and
doesn't get rained up) if it is recessed an inch and is looking downwards. I
know you have contraints with a car as to which way it looks though.

IR is a bit crap really. Fixed focus bullets always look blurred, and it's
hard not to get hot spots. And of course no colour.

Ah, I'd wondered if that might be the case. They look a bit too good
to be true - particularly the cheaper ones.


Reversing lights tend to give hotspots and areas of murky darkness. Try it,
then add a couple of 12V LED arrays in the back window or wherever (one time
we actually put them inside the reversing lamp glass!), possibly with
diffusers made by sanding the glass front (if there is one).

Sounds like some good fiddling opportunities there then.


http://www.misumi.com.tw/ac.htm seems to be accurate for view angles, but
don't forget many monitors overscan a bit. Be aware that some cams are 1/4"
and some are 1/3" and the difference in view angle is really significant.
Needless to say the very wide angle cams give a picture that's horribly
distorted.

That's a useful link. I haven't come across anything like that yet.


Sorry if some of this is 'grandmother sucking eggs' or irrelevant to your
purpose.

Not at all. It's all totally relevant to me and my egg-sucking skills
could always do with improvement.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

Bill Wright wrote:


"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the
surprising discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the
completely dark garden opposite. Within a few seconds it would clearly
show details that I could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.

It's very unusual for a monochrome camera to adjust white balance.

Yeah. White balance affects the colour making orange tungsten and
blue daylight appear as neutral. I think Mark must mean his camera
software adjusts the exposure automagically to be able to see black
cats in coal holes as well as white cats in snowdrifts. ;-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Fred" [email protected] wrote in message
...
David wrote:
"Fred" [email protected] wrote in message
...


My Nissan Maxima QX came with a factory-fitted sat-nav system, with
an LCD colour monitor that pops up out of the dashboard. I prefer to
use my TomTom as I can load up my own POIs etc., so I'm wondering if
anyone has tried adapting the LCD monitor of a factory-fitted
sat-nav to use with a camera instead? How did you go about it?

My Nissan does have the rear camera, the console does have a SatNav
button. I've not got the SatNav but was an extra I could have had. The
next model up did have it as standard.
So I guess the neccesary connections might well be there.

Please reply to News Group

Ah, brilliant. Thanks David
Have a look through http://www.civinfo.com/forum several people have posted
about fitting cameras with instructions and pictures, and also using the
satnav lcd as a monitor

OT reversing cameras.
 

Dave R wrote:
"Fred" [email protected] wrote in message
...
David wrote:
"Fred" [email protected] wrote in message
...


My Nissan Maxima QX came with a factory-fitted sat-nav system, with
an LCD colour monitor that pops up out of the dashboard. I prefer
to use my TomTom as I can load up my own POIs etc., so I'm
wondering if anyone has tried adapting the LCD monitor of a
factory-fitted sat-nav to use with a camera instead? How did you
go about it?
My Nissan does have the rear camera, the console does have a SatNav
button. I've not got the SatNav but was an extra I could have had.
The next model up did have it as standard.
So I guess the neccesary connections might well be there.

Please reply to News Group

Ah, brilliant. Thanks David
Have a look through http://www.civinfo.com/forum several people have
posted about fitting cameras with instructions and pictures, and
also using the satnav lcd as a monitor

Hey, thanks Dave R - plenty of food for thought there mate :o)

OT reversing cameras.
 

Colin Stamp wrote:
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.
I have one these built-in to my Honda, not as brilliant as I thought it
mighht be but still useful. The reversing lights provide plenty of
illumination. Instaed of boring holes in your motor why not think about
something like this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...mera&source=15

This is a Maplin one but there are others, you might even be able to
wire it into your existing screen instead ofusing the one provided.

Bob

OT reversing cameras.
 

Colin Stamp wrote:
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.

I have one these built-in to my Honda, not as brilliant as I thought it
mighht be but still useful. The reversing lights provide plenty of
illumination. Instaed of boring holes in your motor why not think about
something like this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...mera&source=15

This is a Maplin one but there are others, you might even be able to
wire it into your existing screen instead ofusing the one provided.

Bob

OT reversing cameras.
 

Sorry about the repeat post, thunderbird told me the first attempt could
not be sent.

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:05:11 +0000, Dhropta Guli
wrote:



I have one these built-in to my Honda, not as brilliant as I thought it
mighht be but still useful. The reversing lights provide plenty of
illumination. Instaed of boring holes in your motor why not think about
something like this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?...mera&source=15

This is a Maplin one but there are others, you might even be able to
wire it into your existing screen instead ofusing the one provided.


Thanks for the info and the link, though I'm not really after a
wireless one. They are curious though. I have to admit, I don't
understand how they're meant to mount. They mention number-plate
fitting but they look too bulky to sit behind the plate looking
through a hole. Surely that big plastic strap isn't meant to be
visible...

I think I'll get a small bullet camera and experiment.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
It's very unusual for a monochrome camera to adjust white balance.
That was me being what my mother used to call 'clever'.


Yeah. White balance affects the colour making orange tungsten and
blue daylight appear as neutral. I think Mark must mean his camera
software adjusts the exposure automagically to be able to see black
cats in coal holes as well as white cats in snowdrifts. ;-)
Here's me being clever again. The exposure for both depends on the ambient
light level. If the black cat was in a coal hole with the coal hole lid off
and sunshine streaming in the exposure woulds need to be much less that it
would be for the white cat in the snowdrift, were the latter unfortunate cat
to be trapped in the snowdrift at midnight during a severely overcast
moonless night in a place where there was no light pollution. Or perhaps I'm
jumping to conclusions. Perhaps that's what you meant.

Bill

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the
surprising discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the
completely dark garden opposite. Within a few seconds it would clearly
show details that I could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.

It's very unusual for a monochrome camera to adjust white balance.

Bill




It was managed in software. The image was adjusted until the average was
50%, so very dark scenes looked relatively normal with good contrast. Sadly
no drivers for NT or later.

OT reversing cameras.
 

In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
Plain ol' reversing sensors are much more use.

The car already has sensors front and back, and they're much more
useful than I thought they would be. I'd still find it comforting to
be able to see where I'm going though. There's also the worrying
number of back bumpers I see around sporting both sensors and dents.

Having sensors or cameras don't stop others bashing your car. A decent
towbar helps, though.

--
*He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless, dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT reversing cameras.
 

"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
It was managed in software. The image was adjusted until the average was
50%, so very dark scenes looked relatively normal with good contrast.
Sadly no drivers for NT or later.

Yes, I know what you mean, but that isn't white balance. White balance in
this context is when a colour camera adjusts so the scene retains a
reasonable balance of colours that more or less add to white. The colour of
ambient light varies a great deal and auto while balance attempts to
compensate for this, so pictures don't seem to have an overall cast. It
doesn't always work of course. I installed a cam a while back where the sky
seemed to change colour dramatically when a car went past. (Yes, I know it's
unusual to have sky in a CCTV shot.) The answer was to find a camera where
the auto white balance was very slow acting.

Incidentally the software-powered adjustments you mention are now sometimes
vaunted by the CCTV manufacturers as the latest thing -- 'dynamic' contrast
and gain adjustment.

Bill

OT reversing cameras.
 

Maybe 45 years ago my old man had something that fascinated me as he
parked his (?) large American/Canadian version of the Morris Traveller
at night, a big thing it was.

Anyway, it had a feature which picked up the illuminaton from the rear
reversing lights off of surfaces behind the vehicle and pre-dated
fibre optic of course, so that said, maybe you could use a fibre optic
bundle facing rearwards, the ends coming out on the dashboard? The
closer you get the more it glows.

OT reversing cameras.
 

In article ,
Richard Brooks wrote:
Maybe 45 years ago my old man had something that fascinated me as he
parked his (?) large American/Canadian version of the Morris Traveller
at night, a big thing it was.

Anyway, it had a feature which picked up the illuminaton from the rear
reversing lights off of surfaces behind the vehicle and pre-dated
fibre optic of course, so that said, maybe you could use a fibre optic
bundle facing rearwards, the ends coming out on the dashboard? The
closer you get the more it glows.

Sensors which bleep faster the closer you get to an obstacle sound rather
easier - and kits are available for cars not so fitted for not a lot.

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OT reversing cameras.
 

On 7 Dec, 16:45, Colin Stamp wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:58:01 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"

wrote:
Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the surprising
discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the completely dark
garden opposite. *Within a few seconds it would clearly show details that I
could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.

That's interesting. One thought I had was to try to find a very
sensitive camera and fit that looking down from inside the back window
at the top. It'd certainly make fitting a lot easier if it could see
through the crummy privacy glass. Maybe that's a real possibility
then.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

That's exactly what I've done. Has to be an Estate type car with a
tailgate though. I fitted it at the top and inside the tailgate angled
downwards so that it also gives me a view of my towbar. Be aware that
the sensitivity of the camera has to be offset against the increased
graininess of the picture.

OT reversing cameras.
 

David wrote:


"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

Have you driven a car with a rear view camera picture?
My Nissan has the feature as standard I just can't get used to it and do
not look at it, just use my mirrors. It may well be me but you might
consider if an aid to you before going a head particulary as you going
to put holes in your car.

Thought the reversing camera on my Prius was a gimmick. But now I've
got used to using it I can't imagine being without it. Solihull
Morrison's car park with the strategically placed, middle of the bumper,
just high enough to hit it, concrete posts hold no fears for me now! (I
reverse in as there's a path between the rows of cars actually intended
to allow you to load the boot without wheeling the trolley in the road!)

Surprisingly the lens doesn't get very dirty either.

Richard

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Dickie mint" wrote in message
...
Thought the reversing camera on my Prius was a gimmick. But now I've got
used to using it I can't imagine being without it. Solihull Morrison's
car park with the strategically placed, middle of the bumper, just high
enough to hit it, concrete posts hold no fears for me now! (I reverse in
as there's a path between the rows of cars actually intended to allow you
to load the boot without wheeling the trolley in the road!)

Surprisingly the lens doesn't get very dirty either.

I now feel that larger vehicles are almost undrivable without cameras. They
are a legal requirement in some countries, I believe. Dunno where I heard it
mind you.

Bill

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:08:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
Plain ol' reversing sensors are much more use.

The car already has sensors front and back, and they're much more
useful than I thought they would be. I'd still find it comforting to
be able to see where I'm going though. There's also the worrying
number of back bumpers I see around sporting both sensors and dents.

Having sensors or cameras don't stop others bashing your car. A decent
towbar helps, though.

I can also confirm that no one has dented my rear bumper since fitting
a tow bar.

Marky P.

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:00:29 +0000, Marky P
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:08:22 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
Plain ol' reversing sensors are much more use.

The car already has sensors front and back, and they're much more
useful than I thought they would be. I'd still find it comforting to
be able to see where I'm going though. There's also the worrying
number of back bumpers I see around sporting both sensors and dents.

Having sensors or cameras don't stop others bashing your car. A decent
towbar helps, though.

I can also confirm that no one has dented my rear bumper since fitting
a tow bar.

Marky P.

Actually, that made me think. How well do reverse sensors work when
you have a tow bar? Can they be re-adjusted or is it not a problem?

Marky P.

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 02:21:36 -0800 (PST), g6zru
wrote:

On 7 Dec, 16:45, Colin Stamp wrote:
On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:58:01 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"

wrote:
Over ten years ago I bought a little black and white camera for my PC.

Low resolution (but adequate for reversing), wide angle and small.

The software automatically adjusted white balance, and I made the surprising
discovery that it would produce a daylight type image of the completely dark
garden opposite. *Within a few seconds it would clearly show details that I
could not see after minutes of dark adaptation.

That's interesting. One thought I had was to try to find a very
sensitive camera and fit that looking down from inside the back window
at the top. It'd certainly make fitting a lot easier if it could see
through the crummy privacy glass. Maybe that's a real possibility
then.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

That's exactly what I've done. Has to be an Estate type car with a
tailgate though. I fitted it at the top and inside the tailgate angled
downwards so that it also gives me a view of my towbar. Be aware that
the sensitivity of the camera has to be offset against the increased
graininess of the picture.

Mine's a hatchback, so I'm not expecting the view from inside the
window to be much better than the one from the driver's seat in
daylight - there'll still be a blind patch below the spoiler. I'm not
too worried about that though since all I'm trying to do is re-gain
the view that the privacy glass robs me of after dark.

I ordered a cheapish low-light camera today, so I'll have a play with
that and see if it really can work at night through my back window.
I'll be testing it with a welding visor.

Thanks again to everyone for all the good advice.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:03:31 +0000, Marky P
wrote:


Actually, that made me think. How well do reverse sensors work when
you have a tow bar? Can they be re-adjusted or is it not a problem?


The OE Ford ones on mine seem go to flatline when the car is still
over a foot from the obstacle, so that should leave plenty of room for
a towbar. I haven't experimented too much though - presumably the
distance is less for thin posts that end-up halfway between two
sensors.

Cheers,

Colin.

--
Threre's a spam-trap on my return address, just in case you hadn't noticed...

OT reversing cameras.
 

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:42:50 +0000, Colin Stamp
wrote:

Hi all,

Sorry about the blatant OT post, but I'm sure a load of TV type people
will know all about video cameras...

I'm upgrading the stereo in my new pride-and-joy Mondeo to one of
those fancy double-din navigation thingies. The car has nasty privacy
glass which makes it a real pain to reverse after dark, so I thought
I'd hack a hole in the back bumper and bodge in a reversing camera.
Gaffer tape will no-doubt play a vital role in the installation.

Anyway, the question is, which camera do I get? The aim is to have the
ability to get a reasonable view by the reversing lights alone, so I
guess low-light performance is going to be the main requirement.

A quick Google suggests that CCD cameras have better low-light
performance that CMOS, though the specs quoted for individual cameras
don't seem to tally with that. "Lux" values seem to range from 0.01 to
1 regardless of the sensor type. A lot of the cameras have IR LEDs, so
you don't get a "lux" value at-all for those. Of course, no range or
beam pattern info is given for the IR illumination.

So, would a CMOS camera do, or do I need a CCD one? Do I even need to
go to one of the more specialist black-and-white low-light cameras?
Are the "lux" values meaningful at-all? Are a few IR LEDs anything
like enough to light up a wide-angle camera's field of view
effectively?

And I thought buying the camera would be the easy bit...

Cheers,

Colin.

How will you overcome the problem of the camera becoming covered with
****? You would have to get out of the car to clean it every time you
wanted to reverse
--
Cheers

Peter

OT reversing cameras.
 

"Petert" wrote in message
...
How will you overcome the problem of the camera becoming covered with
****? You would have to get out of the car to clean it every time you
wanted to reverse

This isn't the case. I am involved with four vehicles with reversing cameras
and cleaning the camera glass is a fairly uncommon ocurrance.

Bill