Aerial costs?
 

tony sayer wrote:

Walter....

Now there's a blast from the past. :-)

Aerial costs?
 

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...


Let me recap. The thread started when someone questioned the 'cost'
to supply and erect an aerial (I assume a TV aerial) and raised the
question of the 'price' I believe of £60.

I responded showing using the following assumptions:

Cost of materials (aerial, cable, clips, brackets etc)
£20
Annual remuneration of erector £30,000/year
Chargeable hours per year
1200
Overheads/year
£18,000
Average time of job
1 hour
Hourly Labour Rate
£25

This provoked howls of indignation and suggestion my figures and
assumptions were totally wrong (********) but no datafrom my critics
indicating the correct figures. Please bear in mind we are discussing
'cost' not 'price'.

To appease my critics, I doubled the annual remuneration to £60,000
and material cost to £40 to arrive at £90.00 cost price to supply and
fit an aerial for the average job. This still appears not to satisfy
my critics and still they consistently decline to table their own
figures, I wonder why. Incidentally, I am assuming that the price for
materials paid by the 'trade' is significantly less than the consumer
retaill price.

I also note, with some amusement, that the methodology used for
costing a job is considered out of date. So cost of labour plus cost
of materials plus overheads is no longer used? Will someone kindly
advised what is now used?

To end my contribution to the thread, a local reputable CAI contractor
has quoted £50 to supply and fit a DAB dipole to my existing mast if
it is accessible by ladder only (which it is) or £90 if it must be
accessed from the roof. I assume the difference being whether it is a
one or two man job.

Oh dear. And here's me thinking age and wisdom went hand in hand.

Let's hope they can find a space on your 1 inch B&Q mast to clamp the DAB
aerial on.

Aerial costs?
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:58:10 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

To end my contribution to the thread, a local reputable CAI contractor
has quoted £50 to supply and fit a DAB dipole to my existing mast if
it is accessible by ladder only (which it is) or £90 if it must be
accessed from the roof. I assume the difference being whether it is a
one or two man job.

Where is this you live again that DAB is so bad that you need an outdoor
aerial?..

Most of the time I don't but under certain weather conditions I get
'boiling mud'. Classic FM seems to be immune but all BBC stations are
severely affected.

The TV aerial is mounted on the chimney stack which is close to
several large trees. TV reception is OK. When the 'first' erector
mounted a dipole on the same mast we got absolutely no reception. The
erector assure me this is the first time this has ever happened. They
didn't suggest the problem may be the trees. They were on the phone
to others for advice so as without result, I assume none had any
ideas.

The internal aerial is on a wall on the ground floor (standard wire
type that came with the set (Onyx)) on the same side of the house as
the trees. We don't receive a large number of stations but all the
ones we are interested in, that is Classic FM and the BBC1, 2, 3 and
4.

Looking around the neighbourhood (Arnold, Nottingham, close to the A60
if you know the area) I don't see any external DAB aerials so it is
possible (I suppose) that the problem (if there is a problem) is site
specific. Maybe a 'directional aerial' will fix it.

I find the whole business very strange but I don't have any
significant wireless knowledge to make meaningful technical
assessment. I assume the dipole aerial being used was suitable, it
certainly said it was suitable for DABl on the box. The cabling
connections (one at each end) were checked and rechecked. The aerial
was moved to every direction possible, but no signal or at least the
signal strength was insufficient.

The Guys doing the job had no meter to measure the signal being
received so I suppose some will comment 'Cowboys' but they did their
best, spent considerable time, and didn't suggest there was a charge
and were profuse with apologies.

Aerial costs?
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:52:45 +0100, "Carpy"
wrote:


"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...


Let me recap. The thread started when someone questioned the 'cost'
to supply and erect an aerial (I assume a TV aerial) and raised the
question of the 'price' I believe of £60.

I responded showing using the following assumptions:

Cost of materials (aerial, cable, clips, brackets etc)
£20
Annual remuneration of erector £30,000/year
Chargeable hours per year
1200
Overheads/year
£18,000
Average time of job
1 hour
Hourly Labour Rate
£25

This provoked howls of indignation and suggestion my figures and
assumptions were totally wrong (********) but no datafrom my critics
indicating the correct figures. Please bear in mind we are discussing
'cost' not 'price'.

To appease my critics, I doubled the annual remuneration to £60,000
and material cost to £40 to arrive at £90.00 cost price to supply and
fit an aerial for the average job. This still appears not to satisfy
my critics and still they consistently decline to table their own
figures, I wonder why. Incidentally, I am assuming that the price for
materials paid by the 'trade' is significantly less than the consumer
retaill price.

I also note, with some amusement, that the methodology used for
costing a job is considered out of date. So cost of labour plus cost
of materials plus overheads is no longer used? Will someone kindly
advised what is now used?

To end my contribution to the thread, a local reputable CAI contractor
has quoted £50 to supply and fit a DAB dipole to my existing mast if
it is accessible by ladder only (which it is) or £90 if it must be
accessed from the roof. I assume the difference being whether it is a
one or two man job.

Oh dear. And here's me thinking age and wisdom went hand in hand.

Let's hope they can find a space on your 1 inch B&Q mast to clamp the DAB
aerial on.


You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you?

Aerial costs?
 

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:52:45 +0100, "Carpy"
wrote:


"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...


Let me recap. The thread started when someone questioned the 'cost'
to supply and erect an aerial (I assume a TV aerial) and raised the
question of the 'price' I believe of £60.

I responded showing using the following assumptions:

Cost of materials (aerial, cable, clips, brackets etc)
£20
Annual remuneration of erector £30,000/year
Chargeable hours per year
1200
Overheads/year
£18,000
Average time of job
1 hour
Hourly Labour Rate
£25

This provoked howls of indignation and suggestion my figures and
assumptions were totally wrong (********) but no datafrom my critics
indicating the correct figures. Please bear in mind we are discussing
'cost' not 'price'.

To appease my critics, I doubled the annual remuneration to £60,000
and material cost to £40 to arrive at £90.00 cost price to supply and
fit an aerial for the average job. This still appears not to satisfy
my critics and still they consistently decline to table their own
figures, I wonder why. Incidentally, I am assuming that the price for
materials paid by the 'trade' is significantly less than the consumer
retaill price.

I also note, with some amusement, that the methodology used for
costing a job is considered out of date. So cost of labour plus cost
of materials plus overheads is no longer used? Will someone kindly
advised what is now used?

To end my contribution to the thread, a local reputable CAI contractor
has quoted £50 to supply and fit a DAB dipole to my existing mast if
it is accessible by ladder only (which it is) or £90 if it must be
accessed from the roof. I assume the difference being whether it is a
one or two man job.

Oh dear. And here's me thinking age and wisdom went hand in hand.

Let's hope they can find a space on your 1 inch B&Q mast to clamp the DAB
aerial on.


You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you?


I have been reading Carpy's contributions to this ng for several years, and
he is unfailingly polite and often offers good, free, advice. He clearly
knows what he is talking about. I have been reading your contributions over
the past few weeks and can only discern that you know that you are right,
regardless of the facts.
--
JohnT

Aerial costs?
 

In article ,
Edward W. Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:58:10 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

To end my contribution to the thread, a local reputable CAI contractor
has quoted £50 to supply and fit a DAB dipole to my existing mast if
it is accessible by ladder only (which it is) or £90 if it must be
accessed from the roof. I assume the difference being whether it is a
one or two man job.

Where is this you live again that DAB is so bad that you need an outdoor
aerial?..

Most of the time I don't but under certain weather conditions I get
'boiling mud'. Classic FM seems to be immune but all BBC stations are
severely affected.

The TV aerial is mounted on the chimney stack which is close to
several large trees. TV reception is OK. When the 'first' erector
mounted a dipole on the same mast we got absolutely no reception. The
erector assure me this is the first time this has ever happened. They
didn't suggest the problem may be the trees. They were on the phone
to others for advice so as without result, I assume none had any
ideas.

my instinctive reaction would be that the cable was faulty. It can happen.


Looking around the neighbourhood (Arnold, Nottingham, close to the A60
if you know the area) I don't see any external DAB aerials so it is
possible (I suppose) that the problem (if there is a problem) is site
specific.

Other reasons might be no-one receiving DAB or they are happy with the
reception an indoor aerial provides. Reception on indoor aerials varies
enormously. You might find that moving the location of your indoor aerial
improves reception on it. I assume you have this indoor aerial mounted so
that the elements (arms) are vertical.


I find the whole business very strange but I don't have any
significant wireless knowledge to make meaningful technical
assessment. I assume the dipole aerial being used was suitable, it
certainly said it was suitable for DABl on the box. The cabling
connections (one at each end) were checked and rechecked. The aerial
was moved to every direction possible, but no signal or at least the
signal strength was insufficient.

The Guys doing the job had no meter to measure the signal being
received so I suppose some will comment 'Cowboys' but they did their
best, spent considerable time, and didn't suggest there was a charge
and were profuse with apologies.

The lack of a meter certainly meant they wasted a lot of time. Possibly
they will decide that a meter is an essential minimum piece of equipment.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Aerial costs?
 

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you?

Pot, kettle, black.

Aerial costs?
 

You can't see
radio waves and no amount of skill will tell you what signal level the
aerial is producing at the bottom of the downlead.

A good "old fashioned" rigger will have a feel for these things.

Yes, well I'm a good old fashioned rigger and I can tell you that you're
talking total ********.

Bill

Aerial costs?
 

To all the professional installers, here's a bit of philosophy:

Gentlemen, just once in a while you meet a customer like Edward. You all
know from experience that arguing with him is a waste of time. You all
should know that the thing to do is bid him a civil 'good afternoon' and
then drive off. He might be right; he might be wrong. He might be a decent
chap; he might be bounder. But who cares? Just drive away. You aren't here
to put the world right, you're here to make a big fat wedge of money every
single day.

The skill is in identifying these people before you are committed. Once you
have the ladders off the van it's harder to withdraw. Once they owe you
money they have you over a barrel.

Remember that the 0.1% of people who are trouble are the 0.1% of your income
that you pay your highest tax rate on. So don't be afraid to drive away. If
you have gone for a year and you haven't sussed out Mr Trouble at least
twice, then you are making your life unneccessarily hard.

Always have the thought in your mind: I can just disengage at this point.
All I have to do is drive away. There's no glory in struggling with these
situations.

By the way, in the old days all the riggers in this area would take back
aerials that weren't paid for, and would write 'won't pay' on the chimney
(out of sight of the ground). We also used to ring round and warn each other
about awkward people.

Those who read this group will know that I believe strongly in giving people
a far deal and doing a top class job. But I also believe in looking after
number one, and that means ditching customers who set out to make things
difficult.

I've no doubt that someone who isn't self-employed will berate me for this
post. Well, never mind.

Bill

Aerial costs?
 

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:39:52 +0100, "Bill Wright"
wrote:


To all the professional installers, here's a bit of philosophy:

Gentlemen, just once in a while you meet a customer like Edward. You all
know from experience that arguing with him is a waste of time. You all
should know that the thing to do is bid him a civil 'good afternoon' and
then drive off. He might be right; he might be wrong. He might be a decent
chap; he might be bounder. But who cares? Just drive away. You aren't here
to put the world right, you're here to make a big fat wedge of money every
single day.

The skill is in identifying these people before you are committed. Once you
have the ladders off the van it's harder to withdraw. Once they owe you
money they have you over a barrel.

Remember that the 0.1% of people who are trouble are the 0.1% of your income
that you pay your highest tax rate on. So don't be afraid to drive away. If
you have gone for a year and you haven't sussed out Mr Trouble at least
twice, then you are making your life unneccessarily hard.

Always have the thought in your mind: I can just disengage at this point.
All I have to do is drive away. There's no glory in struggling with these
situations.

By the way, in the old days all the riggers in this area would take back
aerials that weren't paid for, and would write 'won't pay' on the chimney
(out of sight of the ground). We also used to ring round and warn each other
about awkward people.

Those who read this group will know that I believe strongly in giving people
a far deal and doing a top class job. But I also believe in looking after
number one, and that means ditching customers who set out to make things
difficult.

I've no doubt that someone who isn't self-employed will berate me for this
post. Well, never mind.

Bill

You disappoint me. You clearly have either not read or choose not to
understand the whole thread which started with a question as to the
cost of supplying and erecting an aerial. I suggested a costing model
which I acknowledged was based upon assumptions and suggested others
may like to correct both the assumptions and the figures used.

The response was interesting and I assume came from those in the
trade. The response was not to suggest correct figures or the basis
of the 'model' but to personally attack me, as you have done. No one
has provided alternative figures or an alternative costing model.

A reasonable person would no doubt assume that those in the trade have
something to hide, that is they are pricing their work well over the
cost, gouging I think it is called. It appears that the concept of
'fairness' and 'honesty' by many (certainly not all) trades persons
are foreign, from you contribution(s) you and 'Carpy' come to mind.

As to your advice, I would not want to deal with a contractor with
your attitude. The client has a right to expect fairness, it appears
that many in your industry simply see an opportunity to take advantage
of the gullibility or their clients.

I hope many of those who have resorted to abuse in this thread may
reflect and feel somewhat ashamed, for others I am afraid they are
simply nasty pieces of work. If the cap fits, wear it!