Home cinema - Aerial costs?

HomeCinemaBanter (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/index.php)

- UK digital tv (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

- - Aerial costs? (http://www.homecinemabanter.com/showthread.php?t=60281)

I have been quoted from £60 to £200 for the same job of
installing a dipole aerial for a DAB radio on an existing mast mounted
on a chimney at the end of my house.

And you went for the cheapest option and ended up with an unsatisfactory
installation from what I remember.

If you had done that with your DAB dipole, you might have ended up
like a friend of mine, with a horizontal DAB dipole on his roof!

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

If you disagree with my figures (assumptions) then substitute your own
and you will arrive at what you consider to be the 'cost'. You will
then be able to compare your cost with the 'price' quoted and make a
judgment accordingly.

So he goes around on an old push bike, needs no insurance cover or test
equipment then?...
--
Tony Sayer

"Graham" wrote in message
...

I have been quoted from £60 to £200 for the same job of
installing a dipole aerial for a DAB radio on an existing mast mounted
on a chimney at the end of my house.

And you went for the cheapest option and ended up with an unsatisfactory
installation from what I remember.

If you had done that with your DAB dipole, you might have ended up
like a friend of mine, with a horizontal DAB dipole on his roof!

Whilst I disagree with much of what Edward W.T writes, I have to say that
paying more money won't guarantee you a correctly polarized DAB aerial!
From the very crude standpoint of personal observation, I believe that the
number of horizontally polarized, or incorrectly assembled DAB aerials in
the UK could be as high as 25%.

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:11:01 +0100, "Doctor D"
wrote:

"Carpy" wrote in message
...
Found a few interesting pages regarding aerial costs etc. Read the
comments at the bottom of the pages too. I don't understand how some of
these installers can claim to offer a new aerial installation with an
amplifier for £65?

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/prices/ho...l-install.html

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/howi/freeview_aerial.html

Easy.

"No income tax, no VAT, no money back, no guarantee."
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.

Your topic mentions cost not price, there is a major difference as you
know. If you consider 'cost' , cost will comprise the principal
elements of materials plus overheads plus labour.

Starting with labour, how much is it reasonable for an aerial
installer to 'earn' per year. Let's say £30,000 ( a little high
perhaps but we must start somewhere). On the assumption the number of
hours worked per year is 2000 that means a rate of £15/hour is
required if he can 'sell' all hours which isn't possible. If we
assume 60% of the time is 'chargeable' the hourly rate is £25/hour for
a salary of £30,000/year.

With respect to materials, I would guess the 'average' cost of
materials for most installations does not exceed £20 and likely
somewhat less. Obviously there will be installations where it will
cost more. So for an hours job the 'cost' would be, excluding
overheads, £45 for the 'average' job.

Assuming 'we' are in agreement so far, for a price of £60 the overhead
part would be £15. Referring to my previous 'assumption' that the
number of chargeable hours is 60% of 2000 hr/year, chargeable hours
are 1200hours therefore the annual contribution to overheads is
£15x1200 which is £18,000/year. Seems adequate to me.

Considering the type of work and the 'danger' aspect, I pose the
question why is erecting an aerial anymore dangerous than say that of
a 'roofer'? If the type of danger is equivalent why should an aerial
erector be compensated more for the risk than a 'roofer'?

Now having addressed the basis of 'cost', price is a different matter.
Price is set by the market and what the public are prepared to pay. It
is perfectly clear, to me at least, that many of those in the aerial
erection business are 'ripping-off' the gullible public. For the same
enquiry I have been quoted from £60 to £200 for the same job of
installing a dipole aerial for a DAB radio on an existing mast mounted
on a chimney at the end of my house. No roof work required, all
accessible from a ladder.

If you disagree with my figures (assumptions) then substitute your own
and you will arrive at what you consider to be the 'cost'. You will
then be able to compare your cost with the 'price' quoted and make a
judgment accordingly.

My goodness. Since when was any self employed person restricted to only
earning £30000 pa pre tax?

Here is my typical basic aerial installation over here in Northern
Ireland, and give me your estimate on what you think it might cost. We
may both be surprised on the 'costs'.

14" cradle chimney bracket with lashing kit
10' x 2" 14g alloy mast
2 Wideband CAI standard 3 aerials (for uk and irish channels)
Triax 5052 diplexer
15m WF100 cable
coax plug
1.5 hours labour

On your reply, I'll tell you what I charge for the above job.

--

Glenn Millar - TV Aerials

www.glennmillar.plus.com

http://tinyurl.com/glennmillar-tvaerials

When searching for mobiles, besides your other criteria use +unlocked
-dummy -faulty!

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:46:24 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

It's only happened to me once - I bought a phone which turned out to be a
fake. Got an immediate refund. Just make sure anyone you deal with has
decent feedback going back some time.

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:11:01 +0100, "Doctor D"
wrote:

"Carpy" wrote in message
...
Found a few interesting pages regarding aerial costs etc. Read the
comments at the bottom of the pages too. I don't understand how some of
these installers can claim to offer a new aerial installation with an
amplifier for £65?

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/prices/ho...l-install.html

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/howi/freeview_aerial.html

Easy.

"No income tax, no VAT, no money back, no guarantee."
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.

Your topic mentions cost not price, there is a major difference as you
know. If you consider 'cost' , cost will comprise the principal
elements of materials plus overheads plus labour.

Starting with labour, how much is it reasonable for an aerial
installer to 'earn' per year. Let's say £30,000 ( a little high
perhaps but we must start somewhere). On the assumption the number of
hours worked per year is 2000 that means a rate of £15/hour is
required if he can 'sell' all hours which isn't possible. If we
assume 60% of the time is 'chargeable' the hourly rate is £25/hour for
a salary of £30,000/year.

With respect to materials, I would guess the 'average' cost of
materials for most installations does not exceed £20 and likely
somewhat less. Obviously there will be installations where it will
cost more. So for an hours job the 'cost' would be, excluding
overheads, £45 for the 'average' job.

Assuming 'we' are in agreement so far, for a price of £60 the overhead
part would be £15. Referring to my previous 'assumption' that the
number of chargeable hours is 60% of 2000 hr/year, chargeable hours
are 1200hours therefore the annual contribution to overheads is
£15x1200 which is £18,000/year. Seems adequate to me.

Considering the type of work and the 'danger' aspect, I pose the
question why is erecting an aerial anymore dangerous than say that of
a 'roofer'? If the type of danger is equivalent why should an aerial
erector be compensated more for the risk than a 'roofer'?

Now having addressed the basis of 'cost', price is a different matter.
Price is set by the market and what the public are prepared to pay. It
is perfectly clear, to me at least, that many of those in the aerial
erection business are 'ripping-off' the gullible public. For the same
enquiry I have been quoted from £60 to £200 for the same job of
installing a dipole aerial for a DAB radio on an existing mast mounted
on a chimney at the end of my house. No roof work required, all
accessible from a ladder.

If you disagree with my figures (assumptions) then substitute your own
and you will arrive at what you consider to be the 'cost'. You will
then be able to compare your cost with the 'price' quoted and make a
judgment accordingly.

Edward your figures above are total ********. If you believed them why would
you call someone who charged £65 for the DAB aerial install? That would be
£5 profit according to your figures. Or did you think this £5 was an
acceptable amount of profit for the installer?

You appear to be one of these people who loathes paying the going rate for
someone who knows how to do the job correctly (and who has the expensive
test gear). So what you've done is found the cheapest price possible and now
you are surprised when it doesn't work and the amateur you have chosen
"gives up"? What has the £65 got you? Precisely nothing as you're back using
the internal aerial.

You've already said you're too old to climb up a ladder and fit the DAB
aerial yourself, so surely you're old enough to know that if you pay
peanuts, you really do get monkeys.

Didn't you even begin to think you might have made a mistake going for the
cheapest quote, when you saw him turn up without even a basic field strength
meter?

You know I'm a stickler for technical and scientific accuracy, so ...
Can a sparrow fart, exactly?

:-)

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:39:05 +0100, "Doctor D"
wrote:

They did.
Now they're gradually being replaced by those gold ones from Argos, gravity
defying DAT75's and Televes/Triax Unix's which fall apart when a passing
sparrow farts.

"Graham" wrote in message
...
It's only happened to me once - I bought a phone which turned out to be a
fake.

You ordered the latest Nokia and got this?
http://www.lbtoys.com/product-detail...productID=6377

It could have been one of the dummies that shops use for display. Woolworths
used to have ones that were actually made of painted wood - completely
unrealistic.

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:07:48 +0100, Edward W. Thompson
wrote:

Starting with labour, how much is it reasonable for an aerial
installer to 'earn' per year. Let's say £30,000 ( a little high
perhaps but we must start somewhere).

It does seem rather high to me, that's not far off what I was earning
just a few years as one of the top technical guys in a financial firm
before a combination of age and ill-health caught up with me.

It
is perfectly clear, to me at least, that many of those in the aerial
erection business are 'ripping-off' the gullible public. For the same
enquiry I have been quoted from £60 to £200 for the same job of
installing a dipole aerial for a DAB radio on an existing mast mounted
on a chimney at the end of my house. No roof work required, all
accessible from a ladder.

I paid £400 in Jan 2000 for the problems described at the bottom of
this post:
http://tinyurl.com/5ussqc
.... standing in for ...
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.te...6d033115 b50d

When I reworked their installation in Feb/March 2005, I spent about
£75 on bits and pieces, though that was prices to the public, not
trade, and I now think that perhaps I could have simply reused their
original Hannington aerial, saving £10. Of the rest of their
equipment, I kept the Labgear Attic Distribution Amp, and the only one
of the three wall-sockets that was double-insulated.

It took me the best part of two days, but then I was inexperienced at
this sort of thing, I'm getting a little stiff and unfit, I had to
stop in the middle of the first day to go and get anchor bolts to
replace their loose coach bolts in plastic plugs, I had no fancy
equipment to align the aerial, there was only one of me to be at both
ends of cable pulls from the attic to the rooms at the same time, and
I had to rework the aerial part a second time a few days later after I
discovered I needed an anti-TETRA filter. By contrast a competent
rigging team would hopefully have had to hand in the van everything
needed to complete the job in one go. Perhaps it would have been a
morning's work, perhaps a day's, quite possibly somewhere in between.

I don't say the result is flawless, it isn't, or even that it's as
good as would have been done by the best of the competent pros here -
for whose advice while doing it, especially Bill's, I remain very
grateful - but it is without doubt a whole lot better than the
previous 'professional' CAI installer effort.

So yes, IME there are cowboys around ripping off the public, but
they're not necessarily the ones who charge £65 ...

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
"Graham" wrote in message
...
It's only happened to me once - I bought a phone which turned out to
be a fake.

You ordered the latest Nokia and got this?
http://www.lbtoys.com/product-detail...productID=6377

It could have been one of the dummies that shops use for display.
Woolworths used to have ones that were actually made of painted wood -
completely unrealistic.

No - it was a Chinese fake. Not a copy in that some features simply didn't
work - although they came up on the menu. It was only when I plugged it
into my computer and got the ident off the chip that all became clear...
FWIW there were other fakes around too - but easily found just by looking
at them. This one was very much better than that to look at.

--
*Therapy is expensive, poppin' bubble wrap is cheap! You choose.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.