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New mux planned - Out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
On 19 Aug., 00:39, "-GB-Carpy"
wrote: Anybody know anything about this? Apparantly there will probably be a mux transmitted on CH42 in addition to the 6 planned ones within group A after switchover. I can't really find much information about this but it's got me wondering whether I should be using wideband aerials on CP unless I really need the extra special oomph of a GRP A....... Anyone got any information on this additional mux? Why don't you quote your sources ? :( It is just one of many channel mentioned by Ofcom as an example. It could possible be used for a low power local multiplex around CP. Everything else is speculation. Lars :) Ofcom consultation interleaved spectrum. |
New mux planned - Out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
wrote in message ... On 19 Aug., 00:39, "-GB-Carpy" wrote: Anybody know anything about this? Apparantly there will probably be a mux transmitted on CH42 in addition to the 6 planned ones within group A after switchover. I can't really find much information about this but it's got me wondering whether I should be using wideband aerials on CP unless I really need the extra special oomph of a GRP A....... Anyone got any information on this additional mux? Why don't you quote your sources ? :( It is just one of many channel mentioned by Ofcom as an example. It could possible be used for a low power local multiplex around CP. Everything else is speculation. Lars :) Ofcom consultation interleaved spectrum. There's some stuff here http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051388 |
New mux planned - Out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
wrote:
Ofcom consultation interleaved spectrum. This:- http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/cond...eaved/summary/ More muddled thinking by Ofcom IMHO, YMMV. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
There's some stuff here
http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051388 It looks like we're going to get a 7th Freeview Multiplex with more or less national coverage, and an 8th Freeview Multiplex for local TV. Your out of group channel, 42, is Crystal Palace Mux 8. In the case of Crystal Palace, Mux 7 is on Channel 29, which is Mux D at present. This is the pattern at most stations. After throwing away a large chunk of meant-for-TV spectrum for use by the mobile phone companies, 3 of the original 5 analogue channels, and 4 of the original 6 digital channels are left, leaving a total of 7, hence Mux 7. The philosophy behind Mux 8 seems to be rather different, "Cause interference to BBC1 on the PSB1 Mux at the adjacent station." This may not be as mad as it seems because PSB1 will be the mux with the highest or joint highest power, and therefore most able to withstand co-channel interference from low power local transmissions at the adjacent main station. Hannington PSB1 will be channel 42, hence Crystal Palace Mux 8 is also channel 42. It looks as though Mux 8 may use QPSK, which could be very appropriate in 2 ways. One, it will greatly improve the range of the low power signal, without increasing the co-channel interference at the adjacent station. Two, the limited number of video streams available in a QPSK mux, possibly only 2 or 3 SD channels, is no real drawback for local TV. |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
Stephen wrote:
It looks as though Mux 8 may use QPSK, which could be very appropriate in 2 ways. One, it will greatly improve the range of the low power signal, without increasing the co-channel interference at the adjacent station. Two, the limited number of video streams available in a QPSK mux, possibly only 2 or 3 SD channels, is no real drawback for local TV. I predict nothing will come of it all. Put aside the problems with two extra muxes in some areas whose coverage won't match the 'big six' and therefore will be a source of further confusion because they will appear for some punters, but not others. Then, ask yourself what exactly are these muxes going to carry ? Analogue local TV has been a disaster quite frankly. How many of those services still survive ? Channel M in Manchester springs to mind, and that's about it I think ? CM only services because Guardian Group Media can afford to keep pumping cash into it. Most (all ?) other services have folded. -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
In article , Stephen [email protected]
nkmail.sptv.demon.co.uk scribeth thus There's some stuff here http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051388 It looks like we're going to get a 7th Freeview Multiplex with more or less national coverage, and an 8th Freeview Multiplex for local TV. Your out of group channel, 42, is Crystal Palace Mux 8. In the case of Crystal Palace, Mux 7 is on Channel 29, which is Mux D at present. This is the pattern at most stations. After throwing away a large chunk of meant-for-TV spectrum for use by the mobile phone companies, Which bit of spectrum was that then?.. -- Tony Sayer |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
"tony sayer" wrote in message
... In article , Stephen [email protected] nkmail.sptv.demon.co.uk scribeth thus There's some stuff here http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051388 It looks like we're going to get a 7th Freeview Multiplex with more or less national coverage, and an 8th Freeview Multiplex for local TV. Your out of group channel, 42, is Crystal Palace Mux 8. In the case of Crystal Palace, Mux 7 is on Channel 29, which is Mux D at present. This is the pattern at most stations. After throwing away a large chunk of meant-for-TV spectrum for use by the mobile phone companies, Which bit of spectrum was that then?.. Channels 31 to 40, and 61 to 69. If it wasn't for this channels 32, 33, 34 and 37 would still be available at Crystal Palace after analogue switch off. There would be enough spectrum for a full range of HD channels at higher bitrates, and it would not be necessary to compromise the reception of BBC TV by squeezing it all into Mux 1. |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
In article , Stephen [email protected]
nkmail.sptv.demon.co.uk scribeth thus "tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Stephen [email protected] nkmail.sptv.demon.co.uk scribeth thus There's some stuff here http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051388 It looks like we're going to get a 7th Freeview Multiplex with more or less national coverage, and an 8th Freeview Multiplex for local TV. Your out of group channel, 42, is Crystal Palace Mux 8. In the case of Crystal Palace, Mux 7 is on Channel 29, which is Mux D at present. This is the pattern at most stations. After throwing away a large chunk of meant-for-TV spectrum for use by the mobile phone companies, Which bit of spectrum was that then?.. Channels 31 to 40, and 61 to 69. If it wasn't for this channels 32, 33, 34 and 37 would still be available at Crystal Palace after analogue switch off. There would be enough spectrum for a full range of HD channels at higher bitrates, and it would not be necessary to compromise the reception of BBC TV by squeezing it all into Mux 1. Hummm.... Makes me wonder if the mobile Telcos, who don't seem to be -that- short of spectrum, will be able to get mobile manufacturers to make UK only devices in order to take advantage of the UK's rather odd allocations!.. -- Tony Sayer |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
On 21 Aug., 05:19, "Stephen"
wrote: "tony sayer" wrote in message ... In article , Stephen [email protected] nkmail.sptv.demon.co.uk scribeth thus There's some stuff here http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051388 It looks like we're going to get a 7th Freeview Multiplex with more or less national coverage, and an 8th Freeview Multiplex for local TV. Your out of group channel, 42, is Crystal Palace Mux 8. In the case of Crystal Palace, Mux 7 is on Channel 29, which is Mux D at present. This is the pattern at most stations. After throwing away a large chunk of meant-for-TV spectrum for use by the mobile phone companies, Channels 31 to 40, and 61 to 69. If it wasn't for this channels 32, 33, 34 and 37 would still be available at Crystal Palace after analogue switch off. No this is NOT true. Only channel 33 and 37 are allowed to transmit with full power from CP, plus channel 22,23,25,26, 28 and 30 that will transmit PSB 1-3 and COM 1-3 from CP. The mobile phone companies will need some spectrum not for phones, but mostly for wireless broadband services that will give huge returns to the UK society. TV is important, but much is just entertainment, broadband is much more than that. Lars :) |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
tony sayer wrote:
And the UK will have that bit of spectrum and system no doubt all to itself!.. I don't think so! See 'Study on "Exploiting the Digital Dividend", a European Approach.' http://ec.europa.eu/information_soci...act_notice.pdf which begins: "The switchover from analogue to digital terrestrial TV by the end of 2012 will free up an unprecedented amount of spectrum in Europe as a result of the superior transmission efficiency of digital technology This spectrum is known as the “digital dividend”. The digital dividend is a unique opportunity to meet the fast growing demand for wireless electronic communications services: it opens up sufficient spectrum for broadcasters to significantly develop and expand their services while at the same time ensuring that other important social and economic uses, such as broadband applications to overcome the “digital divide”, have access to this valuable resource. The digital dividend therefore potentially creates a “win/win” situation for the main interested parties. The digital dividend, if properly managed, is also expected to support the i2010 initiative part of the renewed Lisbon strategy, which emphasises the importance of ICT in delivering growth and jobs as a major driver of innovation and productivity gains." You'll need to get your skates on, though, because "the closing date for submitting a tender is 1 September 2008." Terry |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
In article , Terry Casey
scribeth thus tony sayer wrote: And the UK will have that bit of spectrum and system no doubt all to itself!.. I don't think so! See 'Study on "Exploiting the Digital Dividend", a European Approach.' Lets hope its a a bit more compatible than the DAB abortion.. http://ec.europa.eu/information_soci...all_tenders/di gital_dividend/contract_notice.pdf which begins: "The switchover from analogue to digital terrestrial TV by the end of 2012 will free up an unprecedented amount of spectrum in Europe as a result of the superior transmission efficiency of digital technology Yes, how to make good pictures **** poor by too much compression;(.. This spectrum is known as the “digital dividend”. The digital dividend is a unique opportunity to meet the fast growing demand for wireless electronic communications services: Stealth tax.. it opens up sufficient spectrum for broadcasters to significantly develop and expand their services while at the same time ensuring that other important social and economic uses, such as broadband applications to overcome the “digital divide”, have access to this valuable resource. Yes good source of loot for the guvverment.. The digital dividend therefore potentially creates a “win/win” situation for the main interested parties. Especially the government.. The digital dividend, if properly managed, is also expected to support the i2010 initiative part of the renewed Lisbon strategy, which emphasises the importance of ICT in delivering growth and jobs as a major driver of innovation and productivity gains." Of course it does.. You'll need to get your skates on, though, because "the closing date for submitting a tender is 1 September 2008." Wonder anyone's got any money;!.. Terry -- Tony Sayer |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
wrote in message ... TV is important, but much is just entertainment, broadband is much more than that. Or to put it another way, broadband is important, but much is just entertainment, TV is much more than that. Bill |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
On 22 Aug., 02:49, "Bill Wright" wrote:
wrote in message ... TV is important, but much is just entertainment, broadband is much more than that. Or to put it another way, broadband is important, but much is just entertainment, TV is much more than that. Bill No - you look at broadband as a source of private entertainment - I and Ofcom and EU and ... do NOT see it that way. More and more jobs depend directly upon the availability of broadband services. No modern farmer can operate without Internet access, no business can operate without E-mail, in many countries you must send invoices via some electronic service, many depend on the Internet for working from home, school-children must have access to the Internet even in the lower grades and and and..... This is easy in populated areas, but in rural areas UHF based wireless-broadband can be the one and only way to get an OK speed and coverage. If we want to keep some people in these rural areas, then wireless broadband is a MUST The current trend is to focus on the WRC07 plan for broadband ( 4G mobile services) using 790-862 MHz or Channel 61-62 - and these channels ONLY. The UK fanatic and extremist attitude to 'the aerial group religion' of analogue-TV fame, has made the WRC07 plan difficult to bring to the UK. Read the responses from T-mobile, Vodafone, BT.... - well the wast majority - to the Ofcom consultation http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/clearedaward/ Lars :) |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:34:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On 22 Aug., 02:49, "Bill Wright" wrote: wrote in message ... TV is important, but much is just entertainment, broadband is much more than that. Or to put it another way, broadband is important, but much is just entertainment, TV is much more than that. Bill No - you look at broadband as a source of private entertainment - I and Ofcom and EU and ... do NOT see it that way. More and more jobs depend directly upon the availability of broadband services. No modern farmer can operate without Internet access, no business can operate without E-mail, in many countries you must send invoices via some electronic service, many depend on the Internet for working from home, school-children must have access to the Internet even in the lower grades and and and..... This is easy in populated areas, but in rural areas UHF based wireless-broadband can be the one and only way to get an OK speed and coverage. If we want to keep some people in these rural areas, then wireless broadband is a MUST The current trend is to focus on the WRC07 plan for broadband ( 4G mobile services) using 790-862 MHz or Channel 61-62 - and these channels ONLY. The UK fanatic and extremist attitude to 'the aerial group religion' of analogue-TV fame, has made the WRC07 plan difficult to bring to the UK. Read the responses from T-mobile, Vodafone, BT.... - well the wast majority - to the Ofcom consultation http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/clearedaward/ Lars :) Well they would say that, wouldn't they! |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
Channels 31 to 40, and 61 to 69. If it wasn't for this channels 32, 33,
34 and 37 would still be available at Crystal Palace after analogue switch off. No this is NOT true. Only channel 33 and 37 are allowed to transmit with full power from CP, plus channel 22,23,25,26, 28 and 30 that will transmit PSB 1-3 and COM 1-3 from CP. I wonder why the power limits on channels 32 and 34 are any different from those that apply to channels 22, 25, and 28, since they are all additional allocations for DTT which have never been used for high power analogue at Crystal Palace? |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
In article .
com, scribeth thus On 22 Aug., 02:49, "Bill Wright" wrote: wrote in message ... TV is important, but much is just entertainment, broadband is much more than that. Or to put it another way, broadband is important, but much is just entertainment, TV is much more than that. Bill No - you look at broadband as a source of private entertainment - I and Ofcom and EU and ... do NOT see it that way. More and more jobs depend directly upon the availability of broadband services. No modern farmer can operate without Internet access, Yes they can .. I know several poor old East Anglian grain barons who have hardy any idea how to operate a computer!.. no business can operate without E-mail, in many countries you must send invoices via some electronic service, many depend on the Internet for working from home, school-children must have access to the Internet even in the lower grades and and and..... This is easy in populated areas, but in rural areas UHF based wireless-broadband can be the one and only way to get an OK speed and coverage. If we want to keep some people in these rural areas, then wireless broadband is a MUST Reckon that those frequencies will have the capacity ?. And not everywhere isn't serviced by phone wires.. Several radio based service providers have come and gone.. Usually after the local exchange is equipped with broadband!.. The current trend is to focus on the WRC07 plan for broadband ( 4G mobile services) using 790-862 MHz or Channel 61-62 - and these channels ONLY. The UK fanatic and extremist attitude to 'the aerial group religion' of analogue-TV fame, has made the WRC07 plan difficult to bring to the UK. Don't think so it isn't -that- good a business case.. Read the responses from T-mobile, Vodafone, BT.... - well the wast majority - to the Ofcom consultation http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/clearedaward/ Lars :) -- Tony Sayer |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
On 22 Aug., 17:20, "Stephen"
wrote: I wonder why the power limits on channels 32 and 34 are any different from those that apply to channels 22, 25, and 28, since they are all additional allocations for DTT which have never been used for high power analogue at Crystal Palace? There is an international plan GE06 that allows a total of 8 high power channels to be used from CP. All orher channels are not allowed at CP, some are at other UK locations and some are used in France, Belgium and Holland. Use of some channels at lower power and often with directional restrictions is possible. Lars :) |
2 New muxes planned - one out of GRP A - Crystal Palace
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