How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

"zumoz" wrote in message
...
A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.


My brother got a Freesat, Humax, was disapionted with HD quaulity and lack
of programmes, so got his money back. He went back to Freeview.

DVD is better than digital TV, broadcasters do not give this quaulity.

I see no future for HD with BBC1 and ITV1 not being in it.
Public confused about Freesat or not aware of it, shops appear not to want
to sell it.

My CRT TV is far better picture than the plasma/lcd ones.


--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 08:47:56 +0100, zumoz wrote:

A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.


I found it varies. Some channels look better on Freeview (ITV1
inparticularly) and some better on Freesat. I always believed that
Sat used higher bitrates than Freeview, but I'm not sure that's so
true now. As for HD, I've only watched BBC HD so far, and it looks
pretty good to me on my 50" telly. Not up wit Blu-Ray, but it's about
DVD quality and much better than the SD Freeview & Freesat.

Marky P.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

zumoz wrote:
A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.

BBC 1,2,3,4 and C5 use the same resolution on satellite as DTT, 720 x 576

I think BBC bit rates (judged subjectively) are marginally better on
satellite, than DTT, with (in this area, South) the exception of BBC1 which
looks better on DTT. C5 is miles better on satellite.

ITV 1 and C4 on DTT broadcast at 704 x 576, but on satellite at 544 x 576.
Their DTT versions look better, but not much owing to lower bit rates.

The extra ITV and C4 channels (ITV 2, 3, E4 etc) are at 544 x 576 on both
platforms, though I think a couple of C4's channels now run at 704 on DTT ?

As I say, this is looking at the southern England regional versions, there
might be differences in other parts of the UK with the main BBC 1/2/ITV1/C4
channels.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 08:47:56 +0100, zumoz wrote:

A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower)
in London.


I found it varies. Some channels look better on Freeview (ITV1
inparticularly) and some better on Freesat. I always believed that
Sat used higher bitrates than Freeview, but I'm not sure that's so
true now. As for HD, I've only watched BBC HD so far, and it looks
pretty good to me on my 50" telly. Not up wit Blu-Ray, but it's about
DVD quality and much better than the SD Freeview & Freesat.

Marky P.

Are you happy with your new telly Marky? I assume you've got everything
working by now.
--
^..^ This is Kitty. Copy and paste Kitty into your signature to help
her wipe out Bunny's world domination.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:38:48 +0100, David wrote:

I see no future for HD with BBC1 and ITV1 not being in it.

The problem is that the BBC see BBC-HD as another opportunity for yet
another channel to do simulcasts and repeat, rather than as a means to
provide BBC-1 or BBC-2 in HD.

We shall have to see how they proceed with BBC in HD on PSB Multiplex 2
when this goes into operation at the end of next year, and whether BBC-HD
is replaced by BBC-1HD and BBC-2HD.

Since BBC in HD is not yet available terrestrially one really wonders why
they did not put a BBC-1HD and BBC-2HD on satellite (upscaling non-HD
programs obviously) instead of the excuse for empire building yet another
channel, viz BBC-HD.

I guess running a separate BBC-HD is a good excuse for creating more
staff positions with the all so important middle management layer.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

J G Miller wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:38:48 +0100, David wrote:

I see no future for HD with BBC1 and ITV1 not being in it.

The problem is that the BBC see BBC-HD as another opportunity for yet
another channel to do simulcasts and repeat, rather than as a means to
provide BBC-1 or BBC-2 in HD.

We shall have to see how they proceed with BBC in HD on PSB Multiplex 2
when this goes into operation at the end of next year, and whether BBC-HD
is replaced by BBC-1HD and BBC-2HD.

Since BBC in HD is not yet available terrestrially one really wonders why
they did not put a BBC-1HD and BBC-2HD on satellite (upscaling non-HD
programs obviously) instead of the excuse for empire building yet another
channel, viz BBC-HD.

I guess running a separate BBC-HD is a good excuse for creating more
staff positions with the all so important middle management layer.

I thought the problem the Beeb have is that any new *channel* has to gain
approval from the BBC Trust and the DCMS ? BBC 1 HD and BBC 2 HD would
therefore mean two extra channels, simulcasting the same content, so unlikely
to be approved ?

BBC HD currently feels more like a trade test transmission, and not a service
at all.

However I broadly agree, the way forward is for HD versions of 1 and 2, but
then what about HD from 3 and 4, where would that go, would BBC1 HD have to
opt out of SD BBC 1 for some periods ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 14:08:34 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:
I thought the problem the Beeb have is that any new *channel* has to
gain approval from the BBC Trust and the DCMS ?
That was what I understood -- recall all the fuss about BBC-3 and how the
DCMS were supposed to have imposed certain requirements for this network
to go ahead, but apparently these have been swept under the carpet.

BBC 1 HD and BBC 2 HD would therefore mean two extra channels,
simulcasting the same content, so unlikely to be approved ?
If they are providing exactly the same content, but just in a different
resolution, then they are not really "extra channels", are they?

As to whether or not they get approved depends on whether the view of the
BBC Trust is that every opportunity should be used to expand the BBC, or
whether or not the BBC should transition from one format to another.

As I say, when PSB Multiplex 2 become available for two BBC HD streams,
will they be occupied by simulcasts or "new" BBC stations with yet more
new logos and their own announcers?

Surely that is not the best use of licence payers money?

BBC HD currently feels more like a trade test transmission, and not a
service at all.

An excellent observation -- since a major part of its output is "BBC HD
Preview" with snippets of HD material.

As you so rightly remark, it seems more like an exercise in convincing
the trade to market HD equipment rather than attracting viewers to an HD
program schedule.

Since the future of television (and obviously television sales to the US
market being the BBC's biggest customer) is in the HD format, is it not
time that the BBC was increasingly producing its standard fare in HD --
hence the argument for BBC-1HD and BBC-2HD rather than a separate BBC-HD?

but then what about HD from 3 and 4, where would that go, would BBC1 HD
have to opt out of SD BBC 1 for some periods ?

Since BBC-3 and BBC-4 are minority networks, the former geared towards
the low resolution YouTube generation who apparently neither care for
quality in either content or presentation, and the latter is a ghetto for
viewers seeking to escape the dumbed down levels of BBC-1 (the new ITV)
and BBC-2 (the new BBC-1), then there is not a *ratings* motivated reason
(which seems to be the significantly most important factor to the BBC
nowadays) why BBC-1HD or BBC-2HD should opt out to BBC-3 or BBC-4.

Obviously on satellite transmissions there is adequate bandwidth for both
BBC-3HD and BBC-4HD to be available and the appropriate action is to
replace the SD transmissions with DVB-S2 MPEG4 HD format.

Clearly the problem with BBC-1HD is that there is no room for
simultaneous 13(?) HD streams just for the convenience of English viewers
having at most one hour of opt out regional programming on a typical day.

This again of course reinforces the argument that BBC-1 should be a
network station and not have regional differences -- these should be on a
dedicated BBC regional program, with English regions getting a regional
offering as good as that to be found in Northern Ireland, Scotland, and
Wales.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
zumoz wrote:
A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.

BBC 1,2,3,4 and C5 use the same resolution on satellite as DTT, 720 x 576

I think BBC bit rates (judged subjectively) are marginally better on
satellite, than DTT, with (in this area, South) the exception of BBC1
which looks better on DTT. C5 is miles better on satellite.

ITV 1 and C4 on DTT broadcast at 704 x 576, but on satellite at 544 x 576.
Their DTT versions look better, but not much owing to lower bit rates.

The extra ITV and C4 channels (ITV 2, 3, E4 etc) are at 544 x 576 on both
platforms, though I think a couple of C4's channels now run at 704 on DTT
?

More4 now runs at 704x576 on Satellite, but they are in the process of
juggling transmissions around, so who knows!


As I say, this is looking at the southern England regional versions, there
might be differences in other parts of the UK with the main BBC
1/2/ITV1/C4 channels.

All of ITV's regional variants use 544x576. They've got space to use 720
though (the BBC can do it on the same satellite!)

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 10:58:01 +0100, "Adrian" wrote:

Marky P wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 08:47:56 +0100, zumoz wrote:

A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower)
in London.


I found it varies. Some channels look better on Freeview (ITV1
inparticularly) and some better on Freesat. I always believed that
Sat used higher bitrates than Freeview, but I'm not sure that's so
true now. As for HD, I've only watched BBC HD so far, and it looks
pretty good to me on my 50" telly. Not up wit Blu-Ray, but it's about
DVD quality and much better than the SD Freeview & Freesat.

Marky P.

Are you happy with your new telly Marky? I assume you've got everything
working by now.

Yes I'm happy. Although now it's on my wall, it doesn't look hugely
bigger than my old 42" Samsung, but I need a new one for Blu-ray
(1080p/24fps). The old Samsung had serious 'jerky movement' issues
with Blu-Ray as it wasn't 24fps compatible.

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 18:38:14 +0100, "Brian W"
wrote:


"Mark Carver" wrote in message
...
zumoz wrote:
A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.

BBC 1,2,3,4 and C5 use the same resolution on satellite as DTT, 720 x 576

I think BBC bit rates (judged subjectively) are marginally better on
satellite, than DTT, with (in this area, South) the exception of BBC1
which looks better on DTT. C5 is miles better on satellite.

ITV 1 and C4 on DTT broadcast at 704 x 576, but on satellite at 544 x 576.
Their DTT versions look better, but not much owing to lower bit rates.

The extra ITV and C4 channels (ITV 2, 3, E4 etc) are at 544 x 576 on both
platforms, though I think a couple of C4's channels now run at 704 on DTT
?

More4 now runs at 704x576 on Satellite, but they are in the process of
juggling transmissions around, so who knows!


As I say, this is looking at the southern England regional versions, there
might be differences in other parts of the UK with the main BBC
1/2/ITV1/C4 channels.

All of ITV's regional variants use 544x576. They've got space to use 720
though (the BBC can do it on the same satellite!)

Thanks both,that answers my question

How does Freesat quality compare with Freeview
 

IME, FreeSat/FTA is preferable, because there seems to be marginally
less over-compression on the channels that I watch most, BBC1/2/4.

Also, it is *much* less prone to impulse interference, which can be
very common in built up areas. It's so bad where I live, that I don't
usually try and make on Freeview any recording that I might want to
keep.

Because of the stupid bitrates and resolutions, other channels are
variously more cr*p on both.

Neither are as good in SD as DVDs, but note that I've even seen
over-compression artifacts on DVDs, for example shoals of fish in
'Blue Planet'.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 08:47:56 +0100, zumoz wrote:

A previous post mentioned ITV, but in general how do the resolution
and bitrates compare between Freesat (and its Sky equivalent if
different) and Freeview? And cable even. How do these compare with
DVDs?

Personally I am mainly interested in SD at the moment.
I realise this could be a complicated subject as a post above
mentioned that the BBC1 rate is different (presuambly can be lower) in
London.