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Datacasting is back
A new venture is promising what looks like datacasting using
opportunistic data not used by normal HD or SD broadcasting. Where have we heard of that before? Says they already have signed up broadcast partners across the country. http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/06/24/daily.4/ This is going to turn into quite a competition for bits between mobile DTV, HDTV and datacasting. If they are not doing opportunistic datacasting then there is little hope for HD via OTA. If they are then they might offer competition to mobile use. Or they may be planning on mobile also, why not. Bob Miller |
Datacasting is back
"robmx" wrote in message m... A new venture is promising what looks like datacasting using opportunistic data not used by normal HD or SD broadcasting. Where have we heard of that before? Says they already have signed up broadcast partners across the country. http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/06/24/daily.4/ This is going to turn into quite a competition for bits between mobile DTV, HDTV and datacasting. If they are not doing opportunistic datacasting then there is little hope for HD via OTA. If they are then they might offer competition to mobile use. Or they may be planning on mobile also, why not. Bob Miller Your article requires registration, and I don't understand your post. |
Datacasting is back
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:20:55 -0400 robmx wrote:
| A new venture is promising what looks like datacasting using | opportunistic data not used by normal HD or SD broadcasting. Where have | we heard of that before? | | Says they already have signed up broadcast partners across the country. | | http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/06/24/daily.4/ | | This is going to turn into quite a competition for bits between mobile | DTV, HDTV and datacasting. | | If they are not doing opportunistic datacasting then there is little | hope for HD via OTA. If they are then they might offer competition to | mobile use. Or they may be planning on mobile also, why not. HD doesn't need datacasting. HD without datacasting still looks fine. But with databasting, the HD is likely to be reduced in quality. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance | | by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to | | Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
Datacasting is back
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:42:42 -0700 Cubit wrote:
| | "robmx" wrote in message | m... |A new venture is promising what looks like datacasting using opportunistic |data not used by normal HD or SD broadcasting. Where have we heard of that |before? | | Says they already have signed up broadcast partners across the country. | | http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/06/24/daily.4/ | | This is going to turn into quite a competition for bits between mobile | DTV, HDTV and datacasting. | | If they are not doing opportunistic datacasting then there is little hope | for HD via OTA. If they are then they might offer competition to mobile | use. Or they may be planning on mobile also, why not. | | Bob Miller | | Your article requires registration, and I don't understand your post. Bob is the guy that regularly tells us about the doom the USA is headed for because it chose 8VSB modulation instead of COFDM modulation for its digital TV broadcasting system. COFDM works better than 8VSB under conditions of changing multipath due to the lower symbol rate of each individual carrier. Mobile services in the 700 MHz band are free to use COFDM as far as I know, so I really don't see there being an issue. But Bob seems to think that all broadcasters want to get into the mobile services business and take bandwidth away from broadcasting HD into our homes to accomplish this. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance | | by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to | | Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
Datacasting is back
wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:42:42 -0700 Cubit wrote: | | "robmx" wrote in message | m... |A new venture is promising what looks like datacasting using opportunistic |data not used by normal HD or SD broadcasting. Where have we heard of that |before? | | Says they already have signed up broadcast partners across the country. | | http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/06/24/daily.4/ | | This is going to turn into quite a competition for bits between mobile | DTV, HDTV and datacasting. | | If they are not doing opportunistic datacasting then there is little hope | for HD via OTA. If they are then they might offer competition to mobile | use. Or they may be planning on mobile also, why not. | | Bob Miller | | Your article requires registration, and I don't understand your post. Bob is the guy that regularly tells us about the doom the USA is headed for because it chose 8VSB modulation instead of COFDM modulation for its digital TV broadcasting system. COFDM works better than 8VSB under conditions of changing multipath due to the lower symbol rate of each individual carrier. Mobile services in the 700 MHz band are free to use COFDM as far as I know, so I really don't see there being an issue. But Bob seems to think that all broadcasters want to get into the mobile services business and take bandwidth away from broadcasting HD into our homes to accomplish this. I seem to think this? It is pretty obvious in the broadcast press. Most people in broadcasting seem to think that they HAVE to have Mobile ATSC working and in place for the transition in February 2009. http://www.current.org/tech/tech0809mobile.shtml "But broadcasters, eager to dip into the booming mobile-content market, banded together to fast-track its development, establish a technical standard and put devices in the stores by mid-2009. “Broadcasters are more excited about this than I think they’ve ever been about a new technology,” says Mark Richer, president of the Advanced Television Systems Committee Inc., the industry standards body that last year requested tech proposals for what will be known as ATSC M/H (mobile handheld). “These are the most well-attended meetings we’ve ever had.” There are several reasons for their enthusiasm. For one, consumers clearly crave mobile video. The coalition estimates that 200 million portable video devices will be sold worldwide in 2008 alone, as estimated by Forrester Research and others. McKinsey & Co. found last year that more than 44 percent of cell phone users are interested specifically in mobile TV. The potential upshot: mobile DTV could bring in more than $2 billion annually in new advertising, subscription and partnership revenue by 2012, according to a January study released by the National Association of Broadcasters. For once, pubcasters wouldn’t have to watch the gravy train pass them by. The FCC is expected to regard mobile DTV as an ancillary service, so pubcasters can opt to sell advertising on it or lease the bandwidth for others to use. Or they can provide noncommercial public services as they do on other platforms. “We want to make it reasonably possible for stations to figure out what works best for them,” says Mark Erstling, acting president of APTS. “We need to make a fairly quick decision about what the play is here.” ‘A lot of momentum’ The mobile video coalition said in mid-May that it gave the ATSC results of this spring’s field tests that prove the technology works on the move. During the same week, Samsung and LG Electronics, architects of the two primary technologies competing for selection as the U.S. standard, announced they will collaborate on the platform, forestalling the sort of format war that bedeviled the high-def DVD player market until recently. In the same week, Harris Corp. announced it will be ready by November to ship a complete mobile DTV transmission system to broadcasters . But plenty more meetings and announcements remain before mobile DTV hits the market. The ATSC still must finalize the standard, and broadcasters have to figure out what content plans and business models — subscriptions? ad-supported? — will help them thrive in the increasingly cluttered marketplace. The mobile video coalition will hold consumer trials this fall to gauge what sort of content users crave, Schelle says. Of course, consumers won’t be able to see the content without new DTV-equipped screens — whether they be handheld, attached to laptops or mounted inside minivans. Device manufacturers won’t start churning out receivers until the ATSC completes the standards process, Richer notes—most likely by the second quarter of 2009. However, gadget companies seem eager to get going, Richer says. “There’s a lot of momentum here,” he says. Meanwhile, mobile DTV proponents say the key pieces on their end are already in place and, unlike competing cell-based systems that put video on portable screens, the service can offer real-time local TV. “Broadcasters have a huge opportunity in the sense that they have infrastructure, spectrum and content,” as well as connections to local advertisers and sponsors, Schelle says. “None of the existing providers have all of those components.”" Bob Miller |
Datacasting is back
Cubit wrote:
"robmx" wrote in message m... A new venture is promising what looks like datacasting using opportunistic data not used by normal HD or SD broadcasting. Where have we heard of that before? Says they already have signed up broadcast partners across the country. http://www.tvnewsday.com/articles/2008/06/24/daily.4/ This is going to turn into quite a competition for bits between mobile DTV, HDTV and datacasting. If they are not doing opportunistic datacasting then there is little hope for HD via OTA. If they are then they might offer competition to mobile use. Or they may be planning on mobile also, why not. Bob Miller Your article requires registration, and I don't understand your post. The text is below my comments. Basically they are going to either get a slice of every broadcasters 6 MHz that they sign up or they are going to be doing opportunistic datacasting. Already broadcasters 6 MHz is being carved up to do HDTV, SD subchannels and soon Mobile ATSC. Each of these needs a dedicated slice of the 6 MHz. Many have argued that true HDTV needs all of the 19.34 Mbps that a 6 MHz broadcast channel can deliver with 8-VSB. Some like myself think that you can't do justice to HD using all of the 19.34 Mbps especially if things move on your TV show. Lets say that on or two sub channel SD programs are added and then 5 or 6 Mbps are set aside for Mobile ATSC. Is there still room enough for TRUE HDTV in the remaining 9 Mbps using the outdated MPEG2? The answer is simple and the solution is simple. They will broadcast something like 480P and call it HD and no one will notice the difference. Few notice the difference now and most of what they call HD isn't. Lots of games are already being played. Anyone doubt that more will not be played. Now if they did this service using datacasting then ALL 19.34 Mbps is available for HD when needed. Datacasting is HD over OTA's best friend. If used and profitable it would have protected HD from the inroads of SD subchannels and Mobile ATSC but ignorance most likely will continue to win out till OTA is dead. "Digital = $ for Stations. Sez Who? Sezmi TVNEWSDAY, Jun 24 2008, 8:27 AM ET It's true that few, if any, TV stations have not made any money off their hefty investments in digital broadcasting, but as they count down the final days to the analog cut-off next February the opportunities for doing so seem to be multiplying. The lastest possibility is Sezmi, a well-financed startup out of Belmont, Calif., that wants to lease some of broadcasters' digital spectrum in each market to launch a nationwide, multichannel TV service in competition with cable and satellite. Broadcasters have seen this before. Another startup, USDTV, tried so-called wireless cable by broadcasting cable programming over broadcast spectrum. But it managed to sign up only 15,000 subs before going off the air in early 2007. But the Sezmi technology is far more sophisticated than what USDTV had available when it was putting together its service in the dark ages of 2003 and 2004. The big difference is the set-top box. It will contain one terabyte of storage, enough to hold hundreds of hours of programming and greatly leverage whatever digital spectrum Sezmi can cobble together in each market. The Sezmi service is also relying solely on over-the-air distribution. Its set-top can not only to tune broadcast signals, but also connect to the Internet. Through custom interfaces, Sezmi subscribers will be able to tap into the blizzards of video now available on the Web along with streamed linear networks. Finally, it features a slick user interface and a "smart" antenna that looks like a bookshelf stereo speaker and that Sezmi believes will overcome any inherent weaknesses in the broadcast digital signal. Sezmi is still not ready to talk about its deals with broadcasters or with the telecom companies that will market the service, but in this interview with TVNewsday Editor Harry A. Jessell, Sezmi Senior Vice President David Allred shares a few additional details about how it will work and how it makes sense for broadcasters and consumers. How much total spectrum are you going to need in each market to make this go? We expect to partner with two to four broadcasters in each market. Generally speaking, our partners typically have between 5 and 15 megabits of bandwidth available for us. How many broadcast partners we actually have will depend on how those partnerships come together in terms of what the number is and what the spectrum budget looks like. We'll need less than 40 megabits per market. How do you intend to get 35-40 cable channels of cable in so little bandwidth? There are a number of things that we employ in our overall content distribution that helps to drive that efficiency. The first thing is that we are encoding the content in MPEG-4 and so that generates a significant reduction in the size of the content files and in the bandwidth that's required. An HD signal requires 5-6 megabits per second; SD requires 1.5-2. The second thing we do is benefit from the storage in the set-top box. It allows us to push content out on a 24/7 basis and store it for viewing on demand in the set-top. At times, like in the middle of the night, when the programming is not particularly interesting or relevant, we're using the bandwidth to push out the most popular shows for storage. Then, for the niche content that only a handful of viewers are interested in, we utilize a secure IP broadband connection. It's really about finding the most efficient way to get content to consumers. By deploying or utilizing those different methodologies, broadcast and broadband, we can distribute all the content that makes up our service. So, you're going to take these cable channels, remove the repeats and the paid programming and offer the shows on a VOD basis? Yes. There are times when that bandwidth is essentially not utilized all that efficiently and the content is, quite frankly, filler. Much of the cable content is sent out multiple times in any given week. We don't necessarily need to distribute it the second, third and forth time that it appears on the channel. Will consumers have access to the linear cable channels they are used to over the IP connection? Or, is IP just for the niche channels? Consumers will have access to linear cable channels. Sezmi's FlexCast technology selects the most efficient delivery mechanism, which could be either broadcast or broadband. The content delivered via broadcast or broadband will vary based on several factors — consumer demand and spectrum and broadband capacity in each market at any given time. The content delivery mechanism will be invisible to the consumer. Just to be clear: the broadcast channels will be available in their entirety, in real-time. All of the broadcast content is being distributed by broadcasters across their own digital spectrum. We are simply receiving and enabling consumers to receive it on our smart reception system. So, all of that content is available real-time in a consumer's home. No slicing and dicing of that the broadcast channel. Is that correct? Yes. That's correct. This super-duper set-top box you're going to put in subscriber homes will have one terabyte of storage. How many hours of programming can that hold? Every home will wind up with a mix of standard-definition content and high-definition content. But, to give you a couple of numbers that will put it in perspective, the disc will hold approximately 1,300 hours of standard-definition MPEG-4 content. If you fill the disc entirely with HD content, the number, I believe, would be about 450 hours. What kinds of deals are you making with broadcasters for their digital spectrum? Basically, we are leasing bandwidth from them, but there are some other miscellaneous elements to the partnerships. We also have a number of capabilities in the box that will help them build their local franchises or build their brands. We enable them to present both their traditional TV content as well as their Internet content in a branded portal-like interface on the TV. We also enable them to do more targeted advertising and tap into a variety of other add-ons — tools, techniques and data. One of the key things is access — or visibility — right down to the level of the individual viewer's home. That's critical. This is the very first time that advertisers, broadcasters and other content providers will be able to determine who's actually watching TV in a home. So, we really are stepping into a world where we're bringing Internet-like targeting, interactivity and measurability to television. That creates tremendous value for the broadcasters beyond even the lease fees. There's a lot of talk in broadcast circles about the digital cliff, the point at which you can't receive the digital signals anymore. Can you confidently say that your smart antenna will replace rabbit ears in most places? Oh absolutely. We have essentially capitalized on all the advancements in the world of mobile handsets, WiMax and Wi-Fi. We've applied those same techniques and advancements to television reception. This smart reception system is the most advanced television receiver in the marketplace today. It automatically tunes and optimizes the signal and the viewer does not need to touch it or mess with it in any way shape or form. We don't call this just an antenna. It's a closed loop system where we're receiving a signal, connecting it to the settop box, analyzing or assessing the quality of the video and then providing information back to that reception system. That closed loop feedback process is one of the key elements that provides a significant improvement in reception quality and stability. You've have talked about offering your service at half the price of cable. What's that mean? Are we talking $20, $30, $40 a month? The price ultimately will be set by our partners, the telecommunications service providers who will roll this out as part of their triple play offering. We will be the video option that they bring to market on a co-branded basis so ultimately the price will be set by them. But, generally speaking, we have planned this so it will be about half the price of most cable and satellite services. If you look at most digital tiers or digital cable or satellite offerings, you'll find they are charging something the $70 range for the types of content and services that we're providing. There are 110 million TV homes. How many of those are you going to be able to reach through these telecom marketing partners of yours? We have partnerships in place or that are in late-stage contractual discussions that will enable us to get to a 110 million homes in the 2010 time frame. The areas that they cover — the DMAs and the homes that they serve — will basically cover all major markets across the U.S. Through telephone companies? Not all of them are traditional land-line telephone companies. We can also distribute our service through 4G wireless networks as well and as Wi-Max and LTE [long-term evolution] wireless communications companies. And you're going to have enough of these partnerships in place to cover the entire country by 2010? I won't speak specifically to which partnerships we have in place today, but, yes, I am telling you that we will have the partnerships in place to give us that level of coverage. You've announced that you've raised $17.5 million in capital. How long is that going to last? We will need to raise additional capital. We have sufficient capital to get us through the completion of both our product development and partnering process and get us into our initial pilot markets. What's the latest on trials and commercial rollout? We're actually working through some of our technical trials right now and will plan some limited commercial trials in the third quarter. Our target is to launch the service commercially prior to the end of the year in select pilot markets. It won't be a national roll-out before the end of the year by any means. What are your penetration goals? How many of subscribers do you have to pick up over. let's say, three years, five years, to make this thing a viable enterprise? Well, we have very, very modest requirements. We are not releasing any specific sales or volume penetration targets at this point." Bob Miller |
Datacasting is back
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:32:32 -0400 robmx wrote:
| changing multipath due to the lower symbol rate of each individual carrier. | Mobile services in the 700 MHz band are free to use COFDM as far as I know, | so I really don't see there being an issue. But Bob seems to think that all | broadcasters want to get into the mobile services business and take bandwidth | away from broadcasting HD into our homes to accomplish this. | | I seem to think this? It is pretty obvious in the broadcast press. Most | people in broadcasting seem to think that they HAVE to have Mobile ATSC | working and in place for the transition in February 2009. | | http://www.current.org/tech/tech0809mobile.shtml How about quoting some actual broadcasters, instead of manufacturers with an agenda. | "But broadcasters, eager to dip into the booming mobile-content market, | banded together to fast-track its development, establish a technical | standard and put devices in the stores by mid-2009. A statement pushed by manufacturers. It would be true if 2 broadcasters did want this. I'm sure you could round up 2 that do want to. But it is nowhere near a majority. | There are several reasons for their enthusiasm. For one, consumers | clearly crave mobile video. The coalition estimates that 200 million | portable video devices will be sold worldwide in 2008 alone, as | estimated by Forrester Research and others. McKinsey & Co. found last | year that more than 44 percent of cell phone users are interested | specifically in mobile TV. This isn't portable TV. This is mobile services video. This will be low resolution services you find in the 700/800/900 MHz or 1800/1900 MHz bands. It has no business being mixed in with fixed location broadcasting. Now if the mobile business gets bigger than fixed location broadcasting, then it should be OK to take more channel space from broadcasters below 700 MHz and use it for mobile services. I don't think that will happen. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance | | by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to | | Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
Datacasting is back
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:44:46 -0400 robmx wrote:
| Already broadcasters 6 MHz is being carved up to do HDTV, SD subchannels | and soon Mobile ATSC. Each of these needs a dedicated slice of the 6 MHz. | | Many have argued that true HDTV needs all of the 19.34 Mbps that a 6 MHz | broadcast channel can deliver with 8-VSB. Some like myself think that | you can't do justice to HD using all of the 19.34 Mbps especially if | things move on your TV show. | | Lets say that on or two sub channel SD programs are added and then 5 or | 6 Mbps are set aside for Mobile ATSC. Is there still room enough for | TRUE HDTV in the remaining 9 Mbps using the outdated MPEG2? | | The answer is simple and the solution is simple. They will broadcast | something like 480P and call it HD and no one will notice the | difference. Few notice the difference now and most of what they call HD | isn't. Lots of people will notice the difference. When true HD is shown, then people can see it. People in the stores are seeing it. People I meet are seeing it. I tell them about the future that in 20 years we'll have 5120x2160 and they begin salivating. But, if broadcasters want to recover spectrum, what they need to do us GRADUALLY reduce the compression level. That will slowly fool viewers. That said, it is still my humble opinion that high definition and ultra definition broadcasting show be migrated over to a net-neutral open-field fully-competitive fiber-based infrastructure that delivers 10Gbps private bandwidth to each home. Then we can use ALL of the RF spectrum for mobile services that are unable to have a tether. People want HD and they will want UD in the home. But they don't need either in the car or on the beach or in the park. HD is useless on a mobile phone because we can't squint enough to see the difference. SD and LD will be the thing for mobile services video. And people will want lots of choices. And the future will be as many choices of channels as there are web sites today. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance | | by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to | | Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
Datacasting is back
On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:24:49 -0400 robmx wrote:
| I predicted in 2000 that keeping 8-VSB would delay OTA HDTV which it has | and allow SD sub channels to flourish and that sooner or later 8-VSB | would have to be made to work mobile also. All have come to pass in ways | far worse than I ever imagined. If they want to do mobile, they should switch to COFDM and not bother with 8-VSB at all. For now, that's allocated abouve 698 MHz. Eventually that boundary will move downward. Anyone trying to do mobile services within a limited "opportunistic" subchannel, and especially with 8-VSB, will be at a major disadvantage compared to genuine mobile services providers that can use their full 6 MHz with COFDM and who don't have to eat half of it with HD broadcasts going to fixed location homes. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance | | by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to | | Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
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