Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

I've already got a full HD 1080p set in my lounge, but I've just bought a
new smaller 26" 'HD Ready' Sony Bravia TV, and I'm a bit confused about one
thing. Now I know small screens don't benefit from full 1080p HD, the fact
they don't seem to make panels in 1080p smaller than 37" seems to back this
theory up. So we people that want a smaller TV in a small bedroom get 720p
sets.

The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the 576i/480p
modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various devices to
output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top box. Does 1080i
look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen, or do I just set the
devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080 interlaced look better
than 720 progressive on this screen, so to speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get delivery
of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with a bit of good
advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

Slitheen wrote:
I've already got a full HD 1080p set in my lounge, but I've just bought a
new smaller 26" 'HD Ready' Sony Bravia TV, and I'm a bit confused about one
thing. Now I know small screens don't benefit from full 1080p HD, the fact
they don't seem to make panels in 1080p smaller than 37" seems to back this
theory up. So we people that want a smaller TV in a small bedroom get 720p
sets.

The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the 576i/480p
modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various devices to
output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top box. Does 1080i
look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen, or do I just set the
devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080 interlaced look better
than 720 progressive on this screen, so to speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get delivery
of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with a bit of good
advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.

Your TV would be what I call a 768p set. It will downscale 1080i and
upscale 720p. Since most HD channels are 1080i, the cable/sat box is
probably best overall at 1080i, if it does not have native passthrough.
But for an upscaling DVD recorder/player, since the source is 480i
(unless you have PAL format DVDs), I think you will have to experiment.
My guess is that 1080i will look a little better if the TV electronics
can pick up the 3:2 pulldown of the 24 fps source and display it as 24p.

Alan F

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

"Alan F" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Slitheen wrote:
I've already got a full HD 1080p set in my lounge, but I've just bought a
new smaller 26" 'HD Ready' Sony Bravia TV, and I'm a bit confused about
one thing. Now I know small screens don't benefit from full 1080p HD, the
fact they don't seem to make panels in 1080p smaller than 37" seems to
back this theory up. So we people that want a smaller TV in a small
bedroom get 720p sets.

The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the
576i/480p modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various
devices to output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top
box. Does 1080i look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen, or
do I just set the devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080
interlaced look better than 720 progressive on this screen, so to speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get
delivery of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with a
bit of good advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.

Your TV would be what I call a 768p set. It will downscale 1080i and
upscale 720p. Since most HD channels are 1080i, the cable/sat box is
probably best overall at 1080i, if it does not have native passthrough.
But for an upscaling DVD recorder/player, since the source is 480i (unless
you have PAL format DVDs), I think you will have to experiment. My guess
is that 1080i will look a little better if the TV electronics can pick up
the 3:2 pulldown of the 24 fps source and display it as 24p.

Alan F




Yes, I realised as I hit 'send' that I should note that I'm in the UK, so
I'm PAL....same is true of 90% of my DVD collection (Region 2 PAL). Thanks
for your input, I will check and just trust my own eyes to see which looks
best. I find it terribly confusing this issue. :)

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

Alan:

When one talks 720p, aren't they really talking about the ACTIVE lines?
Thus a screen marketed by firm 'A' at 720p and by firm 'B' at768p, are
really one in the same, the difference being the retrace time? Like NTSC
displays 480 active lines in a 512 line period.

Pumping 1080i (active - really 1125) lines in 720 active lines is really a
good down-conversion, compression trick. Yes?

Wayne


"Alan F" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Slitheen wrote:
I've already got a full HD 1080p set in my lounge, but I've just bought a
new smaller 26" 'HD Ready' Sony Bravia TV, and I'm a bit confused about
one thing. Now I know small screens don't benefit from full 1080p HD, the
fact they don't seem to make panels in 1080p smaller than 37" seems to
back this theory up. So we people that want a smaller TV in a small
bedroom get 720p sets.

The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the
576i/480p modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various
devices to output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top
box. Does 1080i look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen, or
do I just set the devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080
interlaced look better than 720 progressive on this screen, so to speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get
delivery of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with a
bit of good advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.

Your TV would be what I call a 768p set. It will downscale 1080i and
upscale 720p. Since most HD channels are 1080i, the cable/sat box is
probably best overall at 1080i, if it does not have native passthrough.
But for an upscaling DVD recorder/player, since the source is 480i (unless
you have PAL format DVDs), I think you will have to experiment. My guess
is that 1080i will look a little better if the TV electronics can pick up
the 3:2 pulldown of the 24 fps source and display it as 24p.

Alan F

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

WGD wrote:
Alan:

When one talks 720p, aren't they really talking about the ACTIVE lines?
Thus a screen marketed by firm 'A' at 720p and by firm 'B' at768p, are
really one in the same, the difference being the retrace time? Like NTSC
displays 480 active lines in a 512 line period.

Pumping 1080i (active - really 1125) lines in 720 active lines is really a
good down-conversion, compression trick. Yes?

Wayne

Yes, they are talking active lines. The picture area of a 16x9 720p
signal is 1280x720 pixels, progressively scanned in most cases at 60
fps. But retrace time applies to the analog domain, not digital.

A 768p screen is actually 1366 (or 1024 for most 42" plasmas) x 768
pixels. A lot of stores are labeling 1366x768 TVs as 720p because they
don't want to confuse people who already are confused by what 720p,
1080i and 1080p means.

Alan F

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

On Thu, 1 May 2008 23:50:08 +0100 Slitheen wrote:
| I've already got a full HD 1080p set in my lounge, but I've just bought a
| new smaller 26" 'HD Ready' Sony Bravia TV, and I'm a bit confused about one
| thing. Now I know small screens don't benefit from full 1080p HD, the fact
| they don't seem to make panels in 1080p smaller than 37" seems to back this
| theory up. So we people that want a smaller TV in a small bedroom get 720p
| sets.
|
| The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are this
| resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the 576i/480p
| modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various devices to
| output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top box. Does 1080i
| look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen, or do I just set the
| devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080 interlaced look better
| than 720 progressive on this screen, so to speak.

It has the potential to look better. But it won't be much better than 720 if
it even managed to do better at all. It would at most be 6.67% better in
overall resolution.


| I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get delivery
| of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with a bit of good
| advice prior to setting up.

If you're committed, live with it.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from |
| Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers |
| you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

In article %[email protected] "WGD" writes:
Alan:

When one talks 720p, aren't they really talking about the ACTIVE lines?
Thus a screen marketed by firm 'A' at 720p and by firm 'B' at768p, are
really one in the same, the difference being the retrace time? Like NTSC
displays 480 active lines in a 512 line period.

Yes, they are talking about displayed lines.

The 720 line displays (generally older DLP sets), or 768 lines (some plasma
and some LCD sets) generally show all those lines. The retrace has nothing to
do with it, and doesn't even exist for some of the display technologies. The
sets are not really the same, as they differ by 48 lines, for example.

NTSC has 483 active picture lines, but sometimes some might not be sent,
if the source was digital with 480 lines. Many NTSC sets have 5-10% overscan
so 24 to 48 of those lines are not visible on the screen. The actual ratio of
frame to line rates is 525, not 512.


Pumping 1080i (active - really 1125) lines in 720 active lines is really a
good down-conversion, compression trick. Yes?

Depends on the set. Some do a good conversion, some do a poorer one.


Alan

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

On Fri, 2 May 2008 00:07:38 +0100, "Slitheen"
wrote:

"Alan F" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Slitheen wrote:
....
The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the
576i/480p modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various
devices to output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top
box. Does 1080i look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen, or
do I just set the devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080
interlaced look better than 720 progressive on this screen, so to speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get
delivery of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with a
bit of good advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.

Your TV would be what I call a 768p set. It will downscale 1080i and
upscale 720p. Since most HD channels are 1080i, the cable/sat box is
probably best overall at 1080i, if it does not have native passthrough.
But for an upscaling DVD recorder/player, since the source is 480i (unless
you have PAL format DVDs), I think you will have to experiment. My guess
is that 1080i will look a little better if the TV electronics can pick up
the 3:2 pulldown of the 24 fps source and display it as 24p.

Alan F


Yes, I realised as I hit 'send' that I should note that I'm in the UK, so
I'm PAL....same is true of 90% of my DVD collection (Region 2 PAL). Thanks
for your input, I will check and just trust my own eyes to see which looks
best. I find it terribly confusing this issue. :)

"Pass through" as mentioned above and has a good chance of being
optimum. This lets the TV scale and for a 768 panel it minimises the
number of scalings.

This is true also for a DVD player, both picture wise and regarding
functionality in aspect control, so try the DVD player at 576i output.

Unfortunatly, some manufacturers (of players with upscaling feature)
don't allow the user to decide what resolution to use in HDMI so the
player selects the higest number that the TV supports. That will be
1080i on any HD Ready TV regardless of the native resolution.

/Jan

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

"Jan B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 May 2008 00:07:38 +0100, "Slitheen"
wrote:

"Alan F" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Slitheen wrote:
...
The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are
this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the
576i/480p modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various
devices to output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top
box. Does 1080i look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen,
or
do I just set the devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080
interlaced look better than 720 progressive on this screen, so to
speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get
delivery of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with
a
bit of good advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.

Your TV would be what I call a 768p set. It will downscale 1080i and
upscale 720p. Since most HD channels are 1080i, the cable/sat box is
probably best overall at 1080i, if it does not have native passthrough.
But for an upscaling DVD recorder/player, since the source is 480i
(unless
you have PAL format DVDs), I think you will have to experiment. My guess
is that 1080i will look a little better if the TV electronics can pick
up
the 3:2 pulldown of the 24 fps source and display it as 24p.

Alan F


Yes, I realised as I hit 'send' that I should note that I'm in the UK, so
I'm PAL....same is true of 90% of my DVD collection (Region 2 PAL). Thanks
for your input, I will check and just trust my own eyes to see which looks
best. I find it terribly confusing this issue. :)

"Pass through" as mentioned above and has a good chance of being
optimum. This lets the TV scale and for a 768 panel it minimises the
number of scalings.

This is true also for a DVD player, both picture wise and regarding
functionality in aspect control, so try the DVD player at 576i output.

Unfortunatly, some manufacturers (of players with upscaling feature)
don't allow the user to decide what resolution to use in HDMI so the
player selects the higest number that the TV supports. That will be
1080i on any HD Ready TV regardless of the native resolution.

Thankfully I can change to resolution on the DVD recorder, only 'automatic'
forces the highest setting (1080i).

I'm really glad you mentioned your previous point perhaps you can clear some
confusion for me. As you say, if I force 576i and let the set scale the
image, I am able to gain functionality over aspect ratio changing (it forces
16:9 in 720p and 1080i if I let the DVD recorder scale it), but I am
confused about one thing: The old adage if you have a set with a decent
scaling chip and you have an upscaling DVD recorder says that if you just
force the recorder to output 576i (480i for NTSC), the set will handle the
upscaling. I have a Panasonic DMR-EX75 recorder, if I let the recorder scale
the output to 720p or 1080i and press the 'info' button on my TV remote, the
screen tells me it is displaying at 720p or 1080i, but if I force the
recorder to output 576i and press the info button on the set, it says it is
displaying at 576i - now if it was upscaling the image, wouldn't it say 720p
or 1080i? Or have I understood how this all works?

Many thanks for your help, I appreciate it greatly. Sorry for the newbie
question, I am fairly new to HD TV's. :)
..

Displaying 1080i on 720p native screen.
 

Slitheen wrote:
"Jan B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 May 2008 00:07:38 +0100, "Slitheen"
wrote:

"Alan F" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Slitheen wrote:
...
The resolution of the set is 1366x768 (most sub 40" 720p panels are
this
resolution). Knowing these screens support 720p and 1080i (and the
576i/480p modes of course), I want to know what I should set my various
devices to output, namely my PS3 and an upscaling DVD recorder/set-top
box. Does 1080i look better than 720p on a 1366x768 resolution screen,
or
do I just set the devices to display 720p? In other words, should 1080
interlaced look better than 720 progressive on this screen, so to
speak.

I know the good advice would be try both and see, but I don't get
delivery of the TV till tomorrow....I just wanted to be enamoured with
a
bit of good advice prior to setting up.

Thanks for any input.
Your TV would be what I call a 768p set. It will downscale 1080i and
upscale 720p. Since most HD channels are 1080i, the cable/sat box is
probably best overall at 1080i, if it does not have native passthrough.
But for an upscaling DVD recorder/player, since the source is 480i
(unless
you have PAL format DVDs), I think you will have to experiment. My guess
is that 1080i will look a little better if the TV electronics can pick
up
the 3:2 pulldown of the 24 fps source and display it as 24p.

Alan F

Yes, I realised as I hit 'send' that I should note that I'm in the UK, so
I'm PAL....same is true of 90% of my DVD collection (Region 2 PAL). Thanks
for your input, I will check and just trust my own eyes to see which looks
best. I find it terribly confusing this issue. :)
"Pass through" as mentioned above and has a good chance of being
optimum. This lets the TV scale and for a 768 panel it minimises the
number of scalings.

This is true also for a DVD player, both picture wise and regarding
functionality in aspect control, so try the DVD player at 576i output.

Unfortunatly, some manufacturers (of players with upscaling feature)
don't allow the user to decide what resolution to use in HDMI so the
player selects the higest number that the TV supports. That will be
1080i on any HD Ready TV regardless of the native resolution.

Thankfully I can change to resolution on the DVD recorder, only 'automatic'
forces the highest setting (1080i).

I'm really glad you mentioned your previous point perhaps you can clear some
confusion for me. As you say, if I force 576i and let the set scale the
image, I am able to gain functionality over aspect ratio changing (it forces
16:9 in 720p and 1080i if I let the DVD recorder scale it), but I am
confused about one thing: The old adage if you have a set with a decent
scaling chip and you have an upscaling DVD recorder says that if you just
force the recorder to output 576i (480i for NTSC), the set will handle the
upscaling. I have a Panasonic DMR-EX75 recorder, if I let the recorder scale
the output to 720p or 1080i and press the 'info' button on my TV remote, the
screen tells me it is displaying at 720p or 1080i, but if I force the
recorder to output 576i and press the info button on the set, it says it is
displaying at 576i - now if it was upscaling the image, wouldn't it say 720p
or 1080i? Or have I understood how this all works?

The info button on the TV is telling you what is being received from the
DVD player (or other source) - not what the TV is displaying.

Hope this helps



Many thanks for your help, I appreciate it greatly. Sorry for the newbie
question, I am fairly new to HD TV's. :)
.




--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'