TV and built in Freesat?
 

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
Mark Carver wrote:
Brian McIlwrath wrote:


Humax are only doing a Freesat HD STB (for the launch day) and also
have exclusive rights for the first Freesat HD-PVR. They seem to
have annoyed a lot of people (and to be taking some of the shine off
the launch day!) by announcing that their HD-PVR won't be ready
until about August!

They annoyed me so much, that as a stop gap I've just bought a second
hand Sky HD box. Life's too short !


I can think of a number of aerial/sat installers who from day one would
love to carry Freesat kits on their vans as an option to Sky in areas of
non existent terrestrial digital (or even analogue) reception, however for
some reason better known to themselves the cartel rules that this just
ain't going to be allowed to happen for at least another year, does anyone
know if there has been any 'logical' explanation given for this, what many
would consider to be, bizarre decision?

Presumably we'll just buy the boxes from whoever is selling them, like
everyone else. I don't see a problem with that. Give the customer the
original receipt so the come-back goes to the shop, and make your profit on
the installation. That's what I've always done with Sky and Sky Freesat.

Bill

TV and built in Freesat?
 

Michael Chare wrote:


Why would Freesat grant exclusive rights?

It's devil and deep blue sea. With DTT Freeview having an 'open market'
has resulted in various boxes, some of which fail to comply with the UK
DVB-T spec, and therefore cause the viewer problems, either straight
away, or months later.

The other system, is Sky's, where everything about the receiver,
including the user GUI is standardised, and controlled by them.

What is apparent is that neither Sky's, or BBC/ITV's requirements appear
to be met fully by the DVB-S standard, and both have added proprietary
additions to the standard. That seems to stem from a reluctance in the
UK now to simply broadcast satellite services, and let the punters and
market sort themselves out as far as receiving them.

Do any other DVB-S broadcasters adopt the same level of 'control
freakery' ?

TV and built in Freesat?
 

In article ,
Mark Carver wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:


Why would Freesat grant exclusive rights?

It's devil and deep blue sea. With DTT Freeview having an 'open market'
has resulted in various boxes, some of which fail to comply with the UK
DVB-T spec, and therefore cause the viewer problems, either straight
away, or months later.

The other system, is Sky's, where everything about the receiver,
including the user GUI is standardised, and controlled by them.

What is apparent is that neither Sky's, or BBC/ITV's requirements appear
to be met fully by the DVB-S standard, and both have added proprietary
additions to the standard. That seems to stem from a reluctance in the
UK now to simply broadcast satellite services, and let the punters and
market sort themselves out as far as receiving them.

Do any other DVB-S broadcasters adopt the same level of 'control
freakery' ?

In the early days of AM broadcasting, receivers had an approved by the BBC
label.

When teletext (Ceefax) first came out some manufacturers made receivers to
pick up what as being broadcast at the time, not to the broadcast
specification, so they failed when transmissions changed. If this
"control" is about that, then its in the customers' interest.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

TV and built in Freesat?
 

charles wrote:

What is apparent is that neither Sky's, or BBC/ITV's requirements appear
to be met fully by the DVB-S standard, and both have added proprietary
additions to the standard. That seems to stem from a reluctance in the
UK now to simply broadcast satellite services, and let the punters and
market sort themselves out as far as receiving them.

Do any other DVB-S broadcasters adopt the same level of 'control
freakery' ?

In the early days of AM broadcasting, receivers had an approved by the BBC
label.

When teletext (Ceefax) first came out some manufacturers made receivers to
pick up what as being broadcast at the time, not to the broadcast
specification, so they failed when transmissions changed. If this
"control" is about that, then its in the customers' interest.

Indeed it is, but I wonder what contribution the UK broadcasters (BBC
and commercial) made when the DVB-S spec was being defined and ratified ?

TV and built in Freesat?
 

Bill Wright wrote:
"Ivan" wrote in message
...
Mark Carver wrote:
Brian McIlwrath wrote:


Humax are only doing a Freesat HD STB (for the launch day) and also
have exclusive rights for the first Freesat HD-PVR. They seem to
have annoyed a lot of people (and to be taking some of the shine
off the launch day!) by announcing that their HD-PVR won't be ready
until about August!

They annoyed me so much, that as a stop gap I've just bought a
second hand Sky HD box. Life's too short !


I can think of a number of aerial/sat installers who from day one
would love to carry Freesat kits on their vans as an option to Sky
in areas of non existent terrestrial digital (or even analogue)
reception, however for some reason better known to themselves the
cartel rules that this just ain't going to be allowed to happen for
at least another year, does anyone know if there has been any
'logical' explanation given for this, what many would consider to
be, bizarre decision?

Presumably we'll just buy the boxes from whoever is selling them, like
everyone else. I don't see a problem with that. Give the customer the
original receipt so the come-back goes to the shop, and make your
profit on the installation. That's what I've always done with Sky and
Sky Freesat.
Bill


Ah I've obviously misinterpreted the situation then, I was under the
impression that they would only be selling the receivers to customers on the
condition that it was fitted by their own installers.
Just as in the days of Sky when the subsidised equipment, paper work,
installation and authorisation could only be done through an ASA.

TV and built in Freesat?
 

"Ivan" wrote:

Ah I've obviously misinterpreted the situation then, I was under the
impression that they would only be selling the receivers to customers on the
condition that it was fitted by their own installers.
Just as in the days of Sky when the subsidised equipment, paper work,
installation and authorisation could only be done through an ASA.

Argos, for example, will be selling the boxes for use with an existing
satellite dish (click on "more info" then scroll to the bottom).

http://tinyurl.com/4aqnhw

They will charge an additional £80 for the installation, if required, and
that doesn't seem to include the dish.

http://tinyurl.com/5syj6l

--
Dave Farrance

TV and built in Freesat?
 

Mark Carver wrote:

It's devil and deep blue sea. With DTT Freeview having an 'open market'
has resulted in various boxes, some of which fail to comply with the UK
DVB-T spec, and therefore cause the viewer problems, either straight
away, or months later.

The other system, is Sky's, where everything about the receiver,
including the user GUI is standardised, and controlled by them.

What is apparent is that neither Sky's, or BBC/ITV's requirements appear
to be met fully by the DVB-S standard, and both have added proprietary
additions to the standard. That seems to stem from a reluctance in the
UK now to simply broadcast satellite services, and let the punters and
market sort themselves out as far as receiving them.

Do any other DVB-S broadcasters adopt the same level of 'control
freakery' ?

Isn't this the same level of control as "Freeview"? The difference being
that "Freeview" broadcasts started long before there were "Freeview"
badged boxes.

--
Dave Farrance

TV and built in Freesat?
 

Dave Farrance wrote:
"Ivan" wrote:

Ah I've obviously misinterpreted the situation then, I was under the
impression that they would only be selling the receivers to
customers on the condition that it was fitted by their own
installers.
Just as in the days of Sky when the subsidised equipment, paper work,
installation and authorisation could only be done through an ASA.

Argos, for example, will be selling the boxes for use with an existing
satellite dish (click on "more info" then scroll to the bottom).

http://tinyurl.com/4aqnhw

They will charge an additional £80 for the installation, if required,
and that doesn't seem to include the dish.

http://tinyurl.com/5syj6l

Thanks for that info Dave, so it looks like the supply of kit may not be as
restricted as we were originally led to believe, however the major problem
still appears to be the, imho almost childish secrecy, surrounding the
launch.
I've just been in touch with a national aerial wholesaler and the
receptionist informed me that as far as she is aware they'll be receiving
stock within the next couple of weeks (which at least sounds encouraging)
but other than that regarding any detailed information they still appear to
be as much in the dark (or just weren't letting on) as the rest of us.

TV and built in Freesat?
 

"Ivan" wrote in message
...
Presumably we'll just buy the boxes from whoever is selling them, like
everyone else. I don't see a problem with that. Give the customer the
original receipt so the come-back goes to the shop, and make your
profit on the installation. That's what I've always done with Sky and
Sky Freesat.
Bill


Ah I've obviously misinterpreted the situation then, I was under the
impression that they would only be selling the receivers to customers on
the condition that it was fitted by their own installers.
Just as in the days of Sky when the subsidised equipment, paper work,
installation and authorisation could only be done through an ASA.

You could be right, but if so the firms authorised to sell the boxes will be
happy to let us act as 'installers'.

Bill

TV and built in Freesat?
 

Mark Carver wrote:

: What is apparent is that neither Sky's, or BBC/ITV's requirements appear
: to be met fully by the DVB-S standard, and both have added proprietary
: additions to the standard. That seems to stem from a reluctance in the
: UK now to simply broadcast satellite services, and let the punters and
: market sort themselves out as far as receiving them.

I believe that both Sky and Freesat *do* broadcast to DVB-S standards - but
these only mandate "now&next" data. Some German channels broadcast a 7-day
EPG but I do not believe that this is an integral part of DVB-S either!. It
also, AFAIK, only covers channels on one single transponder.

Anyway the BBC have apparently decided that they like the "press red for
other matches" ability and the enhanced EPG features of Sky - that being so
they had no real choice but to design a new EPG to duplicate them.