Future of TIVO ?
 

Howard wrote:

I think the patent may be watching a 'recorded show' while recording
another. A trick your average VCR just can't learn.

The average VCR, sure, but dual-deck VCRs can. DVD RAM can even do time
shifting, but I'm not sure if that came before/after the patent.

--
Stephen Harris

The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Future of TIVO ?
 

On Apr 27, 9:53 am, (Stephen Harris) wrote:
SVU wrote:
TiVo holds the patent on watching one channel while recording another.

I assume the patent is a little more complex than that, because VCRs have
allowed you do that for decades.

--
Stephen Harris

Yes it is a little more complex. The patent (#6233389) states in its
abstract:

"A multimedia time warping system. The invention allows the user to
store selected television broadcast programs while the user is
simultaneously watching or reviewing another program. A preferred
embodiment of the invention accepts television (TV) input streams in a
multitude of forms, for example, National Television Standards
Committee (NTSC) or PAL broadcast, and digital forms such as Digital
Satellite System (DSS), Digital Broadcast Services (DBS), or Advanced
Television Standards Committee (ATSC). The TV streams are converted to
an Moving Pictures Experts Group (MPEG) formatted stream for internal
transfer and manipulation and are parsed and separated it into video
and audio components. The components are stored in temporary buffers.
Events are recorded that indicate the type of component that has been
found, where it is located, and when it occurred. The program logic is
notified that an event has occurred and the data is extracted from the
buffers. The parser and event buffer decouple the CPU from having to
parse the MPEG stream and from the real time nature of the data
streams which allows for slower CPU and bus speeds and translate to
lower system costs. The video and audio components are stored on a
storage device and when the program is requested for display, the
video and audio components are extracted from the storage device and
reassembled into an MPEG stream which is sent to a decoder. The
decoder converts the MPEG stream into TV output signals and delivers
the TV output signals to a TV receiver. User control commands are
accepted and sent through the system. These commands affect the flow
of said MPEG stream and allow the user to view stored programs with at
least the following functions: reverse, fast forward, play, pause,
index, fast/slow reverse play, and fast/slow play."

Note: "store selected television broadcast programs while the user is
simultaneously watching or reviewing another program", meaning
watching a live program, or one that is recorded, as well as one that
is still being recorded. (VCR's, dual or otherwise, don't let you
backup and pause what you are currently recording.)

Also note the "temporary buffers", and information about the "event
components" such as where it is located and when it occurred. I don't
know of consumer VCRs that have the title, time, date, and other info
about the recording automatically saved and displayable on screen
while watching.

In my opinion, competing DVRs will have a tough time doing all but
manual recording and other basic features without infringing.

Brad Houser

Future of TIVO ?
 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:32:55 -0700 (PDT), SVU wrote:

Note: "store selected television broadcast programs while the user is
simultaneously watching or reviewing another program", meaning
watching a live program, or one that is recorded, as well as one that
is still being recorded. (VCR's, dual or otherwise, don't let you
backup and pause what you are currently recording.)

Also note the "temporary buffers", and information about the "event
components" such as where it is located and when it occurred. I don't
know of consumer VCRs that have the title, time, date, and other info
about the recording automatically saved and displayable on screen
while watching.

In my opinion, competing DVRs will have a tough time doing all but
manual recording and other basic features without infringing.

Perhaps not, but the two non-TiVo DVRs that I have experience with, a
ReplayTV (Panasonic ShowStopper) and a Motorola DVR leased from the cable
company, both offer most of those features. Of course, neither of them
can compete with TiVo's software, but that's another story.


--
Dave Seaman
Third Circuit ignores precedent in Mumia Abu-Jamal ruling.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/03/29/18489281.php

Future of TIVO ?
 

Wes Newell wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:56:00 -0700, SVU wrote:

On Apr 26, 4:10 pm, 't aclue wrote:
Seems everyone including the cable companys are jumping into their own
version of TIVO, I'm just wondering where that is going to leave TIVO ?

TiVo holds the patent on watching one channel while recording another.

Really? How in the hell did they get a patent on something that was being
done years before they were even a company.

Because the patent is far more specific than just that. Read it at:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...ivo&RS=AN/tivo

Be sure to read the claims, not just the abstract, which really has no legal
force.

Assuming that is not overturned in appeals, they will probably go after
licensing deals with all the other DVR manufacturers, as once the
precedent is established, they would be sure to be able to enforce that
ruling in other court cases.

This is the standard path for enforcing a patent.

They shouldn't have gotten a patent in the first place.

Why not? Which specific prior art teaches or makes obvious *all* of the
elements of the *exact* claims in the patent?

-- Doug

Future of TIVO ?
 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:23:24 +0000, Douglas Johnson wrote:

They shouldn't have gotten a patent in the first place.

Why not? Which specific prior art teaches or makes obvious *all* of the
elements of the *exact* claims in the patent?

Because there was really nothing new about what they did. Everyone was
just waiting for large enough cheap HDD's to come out before doing it.
Their whole app is a joke. The whole patent process should be revised or
done away with. And this is just one example of why. The best example is
probably the woman that submitted, and received a patent for the hair loop
thing, thus giving her rights to something that has been used for hundreds
of years. She then sued anyone trying to make one. I'm surprised she
didn't get a patent on the hairdo. Give me a break. And patents shouldn't
last more than 3-5 years. If you can't profit from it in that time, it
wasn't worth much to begin with.


--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php

Future of TIVO ?
 

Wes Newell wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:23:24 +0000, Douglas Johnson wrote:

They shouldn't have gotten a patent in the first place.

Why not? Which specific prior art teaches or makes obvious *all* of the
elements of the *exact* claims in the patent?

Because there was really nothing new about what they did. Everyone was
just waiting for large enough cheap HDD's to come out before doing it.
Their whole app is a joke.

Do you have specifics? If not, you're just blowing smoke.
-- Doug

Future of TIVO ?
 

Dave Seaman shaped the electrons to say:
Perhaps not, but the two non-TiVo DVRs that I have experience with, a
ReplayTV (Panasonic ShowStopper) and a Motorola DVR leased from the cable

TiVo and ReplayTV sued each other years ago, and settled out of court
with a patent swap. That's how ReplayTV manages to not be infringing.

As for Motorola, it is possible that they are infringing but TiVo
hasn't sued them yet. TiVo went after EchoStar first to set a
precedent. Hopefully, if they win the final appeal at the Supreme
Court (or the SC refuses to hear the case, which is also a win for
TiVo) then they won't have to sue others - they'll have leverage to
negotiate deals.

-MZ
--
megazone-at-megazone.org http://www.MegaZone.org/ Gweep, Geek, Human, me.
http://www.GizmoLovers.com/ http://www.Eyrie-Productions.com/ -- Hail Eris
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171

Future of TIVO ?
 

On 2008-04-27, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:53:27 GMT, Stephen Harris wrote:
SVU wrote:

TiVo holds the patent on watching one channel while recording another.

I assume the patent is a little more complex than that, because VCRs have
allowed you do that for decades.

Not on a single device. VCR records one channel. While it's doing that,
you can't use it to watch something else. You can only watch what it's
recording, or ignore it all together.

That's just a side effect of the recording medium. Magnetic disc
based devices have been able to handle multiple readers and writers
for decades.

--
Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.

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Future of TIVO ?
 

On 2008-04-28, JEDIDIAH wrote:
On 2008-04-27, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:53:27 GMT, Stephen Harris wrote:
SVU wrote:

TiVo holds the patent on watching one channel while recording another.

I assume the patent is a little more complex than that, because VCRs have
allowed you do that for decades.

Not on a single device. VCR records one channel. While it's doing that,
you can't use it to watch something else. You can only watch what it's
recording, or ignore it all together.

That's just a side effect of the recording medium. Magnetic disc
based devices have been able to handle multiple readers and writers
for decades.

True. So TiVo put together the idea and patented it. It could have just
as easily been someone else, if someone else had put together the idea and
patented it (or even, not patented it, to be used as prior art against
TiVo's patents).

--
This is my .sig

Future of TIVO ?
 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:40:07 +0000, Douglas Johnson wrote:

Wes Newell wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:23:24 +0000, Douglas Johnson wrote:

They shouldn't have gotten a patent in the first place.

Why not? Which specific prior art teaches or makes obvious *all* of
the elements of the *exact* claims in the patent?

Because there was really nothing new about what they did. Everyone was
just waiting for large enough cheap HDD's to come out before doing it.
Their whole app is a joke.

Do you have specifics? If not, you're just blowing smoke. -- Doug

Specifics on what. Who was waiting? Me for one. I'd been wanting to record
to HDD since long before Tivo was even a dream. And I'm sure there must
have been thousands of other people. I think Tivo and Replay were the
first to actually build a working consumer box, but the idea for one has
been around for at least 10 years before that. And the fact that anyone
can get a patent on ideas like this is just plain stupid. All they should
have been able to do is copyright their code and patent any special IC's
they designed.

--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm
Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php