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"Can't get any TV" related question
Didn't want to highjack the ongoing thread.
Does each individual analog TV inside a residence need it's own converter? I live about 45 miles from strong transmitting towers, and my house has big UHF/VHF antenna outside on the roof which brings in analog stations very well. I'll never subscribe to cable or any DTV offering. But, the antenna cable is split, outdoors, before it even comes into the house. One line, closest to the antenna, goes straight through into a lower level den (tri-level house). I'm pretty sure the 27" Sony Trinitron analog TV there will need it's own converter. Then it gets complicated. The other cable comes into the house from the outside splitter, up the outside wall and into an upper level bedroom. (I didn't wire this!) There used to be a TV there, but not currently. However the inline amplifier that boosted the signal from the long cable run from the antenna is still there. Then the cable dives into the walls, trots across the attic heading south and ends up as far as it could possibly go to a mid-level office, living room wall terminating connector. From that that terminating connector there lives yet another in-line amplifier and another splitter (visualize a "Y" output) which feeds a 2 yr. old, small 15" Sharp LED EDTV in an office, and a larger old analog TV in the living room. I don't think the Sharp EDTV has HD tuner or capability. Now to review: That's three TVs sucking the life out of one large antenna, but it works with the amplifiers positioned as described! Do I need three converters? Or could one converter be placed at the lower level (Den, Sony 27" etc.) and a second placed BEFORE the second distant "Y" split, thus feeding the final two TVs? I have two coupons, but haven't purchased yet. Sorry for the complex question, but I tried to describe what I'm living with. -- Barbara |
"Can't get any TV" related question
Barbara wrote:
Didn't want to highjack the ongoing thread. Does each individual analog TV inside a residence need it's own converter? I live about 45 miles from strong transmitting towers, and my house has big UHF/VHF antenna outside on the roof which brings in analog stations very well. I'll never subscribe to cable or any DTV offering. But, the antenna cable is split, outdoors, before it even comes into the house. One line, closest to the antenna, goes straight through into a lower level den (tri-level house). I'm pretty sure the 27" Sony Trinitron analog TV there will need it's own converter. Then it gets complicated. The other cable comes into the house from the outside splitter, up the outside wall and into an upper level bedroom. (I didn't wire this!) There used to be a TV there, but not currently. However the inline amplifier that boosted the signal from the long cable run from the antenna is still there. Then the cable dives into the walls, trots across the attic heading south and ends up as far as it could possibly go to a mid-level office, living room wall terminating connector. From that that terminating connector there lives yet another in-line amplifier and another splitter (visualize a "Y" output) which feeds a 2 yr. old, small 15" Sharp LED EDTV in an office, and a larger old analog TV in the living room. I don't think the Sharp EDTV has HD tuner or capability. Now to review: That's three TVs sucking the life out of one large antenna, but it works with the amplifiers positioned as described! Do I need three converters? Or could one converter be placed at the lower level (Den, Sony 27" etc.) and a second placed BEFORE the second distant "Y" split, thus feeding the final two TVs? I have two coupons, but haven't purchased yet. Sorry for the complex question, but I tried to describe what I'm living with. The short answer is yes, each TV will need it's own converter. Any converter feeding more than one TV (via a "Y" splitter) will likely still work, but changing the channels on the converter will change the channel received on *both* TV's simultaneously. -- jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' |
"Can't get any TV" related question
The converters process one channel at a time. If you locate your
converter upstairs, all televisions downstream of it will receive only the one channel you have selected on it. You will be able to change channels as often as you like, but you will have to run upstairs to the converter each time you do. |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On 15 Apr 2008 15:03:00 GMT Barbara wrote:
| Do I need three converters? Or could one converter be placed at the | lower level (Den, Sony 27" etc.) and a second placed BEFORE the second | distant "Y" split, thus feeding the final two TVs? I have two | coupons, but haven't purchased yet. The converter is a tuner. Think about the scenario where you connect a VCR with a tuner in it, to your TV set. You connect the antenna to the VCR, then connect the RF output of the VCR to the antenna connection of the TV. The TV is "permanently" tuned to a specific channel (usuaully 3 or 4 depending on what the VCR outputs). When you tune channels on the VCR, you see what it tuned to on the TV. If the TV is too old to have certain channels, but the VCR can tune those channels, you need to tune them with the VCR. Some people have the issue for cable TV. Cable TV added new channels not used over the air. Older TVs only tune the over air channels. So they added the VCR that could tune the new ones, to be able to do so. Or they use a box from the cable company. Long ago, back in the 1960's, it was allowed to make TVs with VHF tuner only. Very few, if any, TVs had a UHF tuner. You could use a box called a "UHF converter". It had its own tuner dial for the UHF channels, and a switch for VHF or UHF. When you wanted to tune a UHF channel, you tuned the TV to channel 5 or 6 (those were the usual ones for UHF converters), and tuned the box to the UHF channel desired. It usually did one channel at a time, but two adjacent UHF channels could be tuned to come out on 5 and 6 together. But back then almost no one had 2 adjacent UHF channels. If you did subscribe to cable TV today, and subscribed to more services than just the basic level, you probably would need to use the set top box that the cable company provides (and these days charges extra for so they can make more money from peple with more TVs while advertising what appears to be a lower price). The new "DTV converter box" is similar in that role, but it is for the new digital transmission methods. You would use it exactly as a "set top box". Some of these boxes will come with their own remote control to tune channels with. Think about what the box is doing if it uses a remote control. Think about where it needs to be. You will be using the converter box to change channels with. You need one for each TV, unless you have a special case where it is OK to always have 2 TVs tuned to the same channel. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
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"Can't get any TV" related question
On Apr 15, 2:03*pm, "Barbara" wrote:
Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. *Eventually we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. * I'd check around. The County recycling facility in my area has free drop-off recycling. |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On 15 Apr 2008 18:03:14 GMT Barbara wrote:
| Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old | analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually | we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. That might be worth a letter and telephone call (both) to your 2 senators and your district representative (all three). Inform them "after the transition, they need to have a program to take all the old dead TVs for free". -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old
analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. Barbara In Albuquerque, the city will pick up our old TVs for free. We just have to schedule a day (usually our regular trash pickup day). -- Bearman America: Land of the free because of the brave. |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:40:42 -0500, whosbest54
wrote: In article , says... On 15 Apr 2008 18:03:14 GMT Barbara wrote: | Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old | analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually | we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. That might be worth a letter and telephone call (both) to your 2 senators and your district representative (all three). Inform them "after the transition, they need to have a program to take all the old dead TVs for free". This is a real difficult issue and a reason that cable should be made to keep a basic analog tier for a longer time than 3 years. The sets can't go to landfills because they contain toxic metals like lead. Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environement as a result of the digital transition. Why is that? Just get a converter. Thumper The government gets the windfall of billions auctioning off the vacated spectrum and the consumers get caught with the costs of converters, new TVs and disposal of the old ones. Only the converters are subsidized at this time. whosbest54 |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:03:00 +0000, Barbara wrote:
Didn't want to highjack the ongoing thread. Does each individual analog TV inside a residence need it's own converter? For all practical purposes, yes. However, you could use one with 2 or more TV's if you want to watch the same thing on all of them. I live about 45 miles from strong transmitting towers, and my house has big UHF/VHF antenna outside on the roof which brings in analog stations very well. I'll never subscribe to cable or any DTV offering. Good for you. I never have either. But, the antenna cable is split, outdoors, before it even comes into the house. One line, closest to the antenna, goes straight through into a lower level den (tri-level house). I'm pretty sure the 27" Sony Trinitron analog TV there will need it's own converter. Yes. Then it gets complicated. The other cable comes into the house from the outside splitter, up the outside wall and into an upper level bedroom. (I didn't wire this!) There used to be a TV there, but not currently. However the inline amplifier that boosted the signal from the long cable run from the antenna is still there. Then the cable dives into the walls, trots across the attic heading south and ends up as far as it could possibly go to a mid-level office, living room wall terminating connector. From that that terminating connector there lives yet another in-line amplifier and another splitter (visualize a "Y" output) which feeds a 2 yr. old, small 15" Sharp LED EDTV in an office, and a larger old analog TV in the living room. I don't think the Sharp EDTV has HD tuner or capability. Now to review: That's three TVs sucking the life out of one large antenna, but it works with the amplifiers positioned as described! I've got mine feeding 9 with only one amp. Works fine. Do I need three converters? Or could one converter be placed at the lower level (Den, Sony 27" etc.) and a second placed BEFORE the second distant "Y" split, thus feeding the final two TVs? I have two coupons, but haven't purchased yet. I'm sure you'll want one converter box per TV. That's really what they are designed for. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
In article ,
says... Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environment as a result of the digital transition. Why is that? Just get a converter. Ideally, yes. But a lot of people will opt for new sets; others will get rid of their old ones when they stop working and won't bother with converters. I've met a LOT of people who are doing one or both. Where I live you have to pay to recycle the set. The old sets will end up being dumped or in garages and basements, to be dumped years later. Old TV replacement has always been happening to some extent over the last 60 years, but it will happen much more now. whosbest54 -- The flamewars are over...if you want it. Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://www.geocities.com/whosbest54/ Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://www.geocities.com/whosbest54/rmb.html |
"Can't get any TV" related question
Like the others said, each tv will need it's own converter box.
It might be wise to do a little rewiring. Amplify the signal as close to the source (antenna) as you can, then use one, three-way splitter. Or, use an amplifier that has three outputs. |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:40:42 -0500, whosbest54 wrote:
In article , says... On 15 Apr 2008 18:03:14 GMT Barbara wrote: | Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old | analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually | we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. That might be worth a letter and telephone call (both) to your 2 senators and your district representative (all three). Inform them "after the transition, they need to have a program to take all the old dead TVs for free". This is a real difficult issue and a reason that cable should be made to keep a basic analog tier for a longer time than 3 years. The sets can't go to landfills because they contain toxic metals like lead. AFAIK, they don't have to keep analog feeds at all. All they have to do is provide a way that the customer can watch TV with their old set. They can do that with an STB. The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into closed systems like cable. Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environement as a result of the digital transition. The government gets the windfall of billions auctioning off the vacated spectrum and the consumers get caught with the costs of converters, new TVs and disposal of the old ones. Only the converters are subsidized at this time. Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want one. I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a single TV with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind an ATSC receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV because of the digital transition unless they are idiots. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:26:19 UTC, Jerome Zelinske
wrote: Like the others said, each tv will need it's own converter box. It might be wise to do a little rewiring. Amplify the signal as close to the source (antenna) as you can, then use one, three-way splitter. Or, use an amplifier that has three outputs. Thanks. I've thought about using one amp at the antenna and will have to do some research on which would work best in my situation. The ones I have now are puny little indoor types which would not work up on the roof. -- Barbara |
"Can't get any TV" related question
Jerome Zelinske wrote in
: Like the others said, each tv and each VCR you may have. (if you want to record a different channel than you are watching) will need it's own converter box. It might be wise to do a little rewiring. Amplify the signal as close to the source (antenna) as you can, then use one, three-way splitter. Or, use an amplifier that has three outputs. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
"Can't get any TV" related question
Wes Newell wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:40:42 -0500, whosbest54 wrote: In article , says... On 15 Apr 2008 18:03:14 GMT Barbara wrote: | Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old | analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually | we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. That might be worth a letter and telephone call (both) to your 2 senators and your district representative (all three). Inform them "after the transition, they need to have a program to take all the old dead TVs for free". This is a real difficult issue and a reason that cable should be made to keep a basic analog tier for a longer time than 3 years. The sets can't go to landfills because they contain toxic metals like lead. AFAIK, they don't have to keep analog feeds at all. All they have to do is provide a way that the customer can watch TV with their old set. They can do that with an STB. The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into closed systems like cable. Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environement as a result of the digital transition. The government gets the windfall of billions auctioning off the vacated spectrum and the consumers get caught with the costs of converters, new TVs and disposal of the old ones. Only the converters are subsidized at this time. Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want one. I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a single TV with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind an ATSC receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV because of the digital transition unless they are idiots. Wes, you seem to be forgetting that some people decide to replace a perfectly good TV simply because the old one uses analog technology, and the replacement TV uses newer digital technology. A strong benefit of replacement is improved images and sound. To me, this doesn't seem to make them idiots, rather it makes them someone who is capable of taking advantage of an opportunity for something they consider an improvement, while at the same time, not allowing themselves to accept a government subsidy expected to keep them trapped in a yesteryear paradigm. Perhaps you prefer everyone follow the old paradigm by staying with stone knives and bearskin rugs. According to you, why improve that, they work. A buggy whip worked, why replace that? A small personal watercraft fashioned from a fallen tree worked, why replace it? The ax was useful for obtaining food for the family worked, why replace that? -- jer email reply - I am not a 'ten' |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:26:06 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote: The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into closed systems like cable. But then, how would they (local government) be able to charge the huge "Franchise" fees they get around here?? How would they mandate what (not *If*), public access programming? I manage to avoid the local "Utility users Tax" as it applies to TV because I don't use Cable or Satellite (taxed along with DSL and Cellular communications). Zip 94306 |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:18:12 -0500, whosbest54
wrote: In article , says... Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environment as a result of the digital transition. Why is that? Just get a converter. Ideally, yes. But a lot of people will opt for new sets; others will get rid of their old ones when they stop working and won't bother with converters. I've met a LOT of people who are doing one or both. Where I live you have to pay to recycle the set. The old sets will end up being dumped or in garages and basements, to be dumped years later. Old TV replacement has always been happening to some extent over the last 60 years, but it will happen much more now. whosbest54 It's not the government's fault if people decide to junk their tv instead of getting a converter. Thumper |
"Can't get any TV" related question
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"Can't get any TV" related question
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:18:12 -0500 whosbest54 wrote:
| Ideally, yes. But a lot of people will opt for new sets; others will get rid | of their old ones when they stop working and won't bother with converters. | I've met a LOT of people who are doing one or both. Where I live you have to | pay to recycle the set. The old sets will end up being dumped or in garages | and basements, to be dumped years later. Old TV replacement has always been | happening to some extent over the last 60 years, but it will happen much more | now. And there will be a lot of illegal old set dumping, as well. Congress needs to set up a program to accept all these old TV sets and send them to Cuba. FYI: Cuba uses NTSC. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
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"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:26:06 GMT Wes Newell wrote:
| AFAIK, they don't have to keep analog feeds at all. All they have to do is | provide a way that the customer can watch TV with their old set. They can | do that with an STB. The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into | closed systems like cable. It's not entirely a closed system. The cable infrastructure was "earned" through a past guranteed monopoly, back when it was viable for multiple cable overbuilds (many towns had those), and for slow buildups. These companies are operating with a kind of "windfall" of being the incumbent owner of the legacy system, even if they have replaced every single part. That said, I do agree that it is out of line with the government to tell the cable companies they cannot switch to 100% digital. I agree that the obligation to provide a basic level of service (over the air and local access channels) can be satisfied via a box that outputs at least one compatible analog output usable by old analog TVs. I believe that 2012 as the cutoff for this is too short. It should be at least 2018. I'm a full believer in free markets. Free markets require competition to a sufficient degree that a free choice exists. Even having 2 providers is not much of a choice. OTOH, the level I think is a free choice (5), is not a practical level of overbuild. | Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want one. | I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a single TV | with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind an ATSC | receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV because of the | digital transition unless they are idiots. You want to come pick up mine? It's a perfectly good 32 inch CRT TV that I plan to replace with one that will display HD. Yeah, the reason for the replacement is not DTV ... it's HD. Otherwise an STB would be sufficient. But, I don't want to invest in an STB since I expect to replace the TV with an HDTV eventually (within three years), so that expedites the desire to replace it so I don't have to buy an STB that will have no use in a couple years beyond. As soon as I find the right TV to replace it with, then you can come pick up the old one. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
In article , says...
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:40:42 -0500 whosbest54 wrote: | In article , says... | | |On 15 Apr 2008 18:03:14 GMT Barbara wrote: | || Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old || analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually || we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. | |That might be worth a letter and telephone call (both) to your 2 senators and |your district representative (all three). Inform them "after the transition, |they need to have a program to take all the old dead TVs for free". | | This is a real difficult issue and a reason that cable should be made to keep a | basic analog tier for a longer time than 3 years. The sets can't go to | landfills because they contain toxic metals like lead. I don't agree with the requirement to keep a basic analog tier. I do believe cable companies should provide some analog video connectivity, and at zero cost for basic service for up to two TVs (e.g. if you subscribe to the basic tier, you get up to two boxes on loan as part of the basic cost). If you subscribe to a higher tier, then this obligation would exist for ONE box and that box won't have to deliver more channels than the basic service (e.g. to feed your 2nd TV that you only want basic channels on). I also believe this should be provided out to 2018. If such a box has ONLY RF out, that would comply with the idea of compatibility for older TVs. The cable company could provide the compatibility by having analog running on their cable. But I believe they would be doing a better service to change the whole distribution to all digital and provide those boxes, provided that the next requirement is also met: But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use built in tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC tuners? There are a lot of people like that; I've met them. I see no reason why the cable companies can't provide a basic tier of like 20 analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I can grudgingly agree that they should go all digital. I also believe the cable companies should provide all over the air TV channels they carry in their complete form, including PSIP data, NOT encrypted, with all subchannels intact. So if the over the air station is carried at all, it must work with a DIGITAL CABLE READY (e.g. QAM) TV, without the need for a cable company provided box. Local access channels should be provided the same way. In other words, the basic tier of a cable system that has converted to digital entirely should work without a box on a digital tuner that is cable ready. This includes all subchannels of the TV stations that go over the air. They can make a deal with the same stations to have even more subchannels provided that are not over the air, and treat them like any other private source of content. But whatever does go over the air must remain free to access even if the station delivers it to the cable provider by another means, such as a fiber optic link (an OC-3 link can deliver what amounts to almost 8 ATSC/8VSB channels of content). Agreed. whosbest54 -- The flamewars are over...if you want it. Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://www.geocities.com/whosbest54/ Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://www.geocities.com/whosbest54/rmb.html |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On 16 Apr 2008 16:45:03 GMT, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:40:42 -0500 whosbest54 wrote: | In article , says... | | |On 15 Apr 2008 18:03:14 GMT Barbara wrote: | || Sometimes I wish the gov had just issued "recycle" coupons for old || analog units, since you have to pay to get rid of them. Eventually || we'll have the old TVs *and* the converters to recycle. | |That might be worth a letter and telephone call (both) to your 2 senators and |your district representative (all three). Inform them "after the transition, |they need to have a program to take all the old dead TVs for free". | | This is a real difficult issue and a reason that cable should be made to keep a | basic analog tier for a longer time than 3 years. The sets can't go to | landfills because they contain toxic metals like lead. I don't agree with the requirement to keep a basic analog tier. I do believe cable companies should provide some analog video connectivity, and at zero cost for basic service for up to two TVs (e.g. if you subscribe to the basic tier, you get up to two boxes on loan as part of the basic cost). If you subscribe to a higher tier, then this obligation would exist for ONE box and that box won't have to deliver more channels than the basic service (e.g. to feed your 2nd TV that you only want basic channels on). I also believe this should be provided out to 2018. If such a box has ONLY RF out, that would comply with the idea of compatibility for older TVs. The cable company could provide the compatibility by having analog running on their cable. But I believe they would be doing a better service to change the whole distribution to all digital and provide those boxes, provided that the next requirement is also met: I also believe the cable companies should provide all over the air TV channels they carry in their complete form, including PSIP data, NOT encrypted, with all subchannels intact. So if the over the air station is carried at all, it must work with a DIGITAL CABLE READY (e.g. QAM) TV, without the need for a cable company provided box. Local access channels should be provided the same way. In other words, the basic tier of a cable system that has converted to digital entirely should work without a box on a digital tuner that is cable ready. This includes all subchannels of the TV stations that go over the air. They can make a deal with the same stations to have even more subchannels provided that are not over the air, and treat them like any other private source of content. But whatever does go over the air must remain free to access even if the station delivers it to the cable provider by another means, such as a fiber optic link (an OC-3 link can deliver what amounts to almost 8 ATSC/8VSB channels of content). | Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environement as a | result of the digital transition. The government gets the windfall of billions | auctioning off the vacated spectrum and the consumers get caught with the costs | of converters, new TVs and disposal of the old ones. Only the converters are | subsidized at this time. If we put off the need to phase out old TVs for as long as most old TVs will continue to function, then at least we can argue that the transition itself is not the cause of additional disposal demand. I believe my above suggestion would do that (as well as address other access rights issues). Do you really think the cable companies should just eat the expense that your ideas will incur? Thumper |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On 16 Apr 2008 16:54:02 GMT, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:10:32 -0400 Thumper wrote: | On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:18:12 -0500, whosbest54 | wrote: | |In article , |says... | |Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environment as a |result of the digital transition. | |Why is that? Just get a converter. | |Ideally, yes. But a lot of people will opt for new sets; others will get rid |of their old ones when they stop working and won't bother with converters. |I've met a LOT of people who are doing one or both. Where I live you have to |pay to recycle the set. The old sets will end up being dumped or in garages |and basements, to be dumped years later. Old TV replacement has always been |happening to some extent over the last 60 years, but it will happen much more |now. | |whosbest54 | | It's not the government's fault if people decide to junk their tv | instead of getting a converter. No, but it is the government's fault that all this change is causing more people to dump TVs, and in particular, to have to deal with the inconvenience of tuning their TVs using some newfangled contraption. It's not a total blame, but it is an area of responsibility. We _will_ have a serious uptick in illegal dumping, which will end up costing a lot more that funding such a program to take in these old TVs. A one week long "dump an old TV" amnesty every 15 months, starting 2009-03 and running through for about 5 years seems fine to me. Two TVs per person in the first two events, and one per person thereafter. Paid advertising at the event would be allowed to supplement the costs (TV sellers and cable/satellite companies might have an interest in it). If you decide to junk your set, you should pay for the recycling. Thumper |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:57:27 -0500, Jer wrote:
Wes Newell wrote: Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want one. I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a single TV with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind an ATSC receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV because of the digital transition unless they are idiots. Wes, you seem to be forgetting that some people decide to replace a perfectly good TV simply because the old one uses analog technology, and the replacement TV uses newer digital technology. A strong benefit of replacement is improved images and sound. To me, this doesn't seem to make them idiots, rather it makes them someone who is capable of taking advantage of an opportunity for something they consider an improvement, while at the same time, not allowing themselves to accept a government subsidy expected to keep them trapped in a yesteryear paradigm. Perhaps you prefer everyone follow the old paradigm by staying with stone knives and bearskin rugs. According to you, why improve that, they work. A buggy whip worked, why replace that? A small personal watercraft fashioned from a fallen tree worked, why replace it? The ax was useful for obtaining food for the family worked, why replace that? You might note I said "throw away", not replace. I replaced mine with HDTV's too, but I didn't throw away the old sets. I gave them to someone that could use them. And then I bought a converter box for it and gave them that too. Had you actually read or understood what I said.... -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:54:02 -0700, Steve Urbach wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:26:06 GMT, Wes Newell wrote: The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into closed systems like cable. But then, how would they (local government) be able to charge the huge "Franchise" fees they get around here?? How would they mandate what (not *If*), public access programming? I manage to avoid the local "Utility users Tax" as it applies to TV because I don't use Cable or Satellite (taxed along with DSL and Cellular communications). Zip 94306 My mistake. I should have specified federal government, although I thought that was obvious. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:07:08 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:
| Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want one. | I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a single TV | with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind an ATSC | receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV because of the | digital transition unless they are idiots. You want to come pick up mine? It's a perfectly good 32 inch CRT TV that I plan to replace with one that will display HD. Yeah, the reason for the replacement is not DTV ... it's HD. Otherwise an STB would be sufficient. But, I don't want to invest in an STB since I expect to replace the TV with an HDTV eventually (within three years), so that expedites the desire to replace it so I don't have to buy an STB that will have no use in a couple years beyond. As soon as I find the right TV to replace it with, then you can come pick up the old one. No, I don't want to come pick up yours. Why not do what I did and find someone that will be more than happy to get it for free. I even bought a converter box for them. Or put it out front with a sign that says take me home I work. It won't be there long. But don't just throw it away. that was my point, not replacing it. There's no need to fill the landfills with working TV's when there's lots of people that would be happy to have them. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500, whosbest54 wrote:
But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use built in tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC tuners? There are a lot of people like that; I've met them. I see no reason why the cable companies can't provide a basic tier of like 20 analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I can grudgingly agree that they should go all digital. Why should the cable company be restricted to 20 analog channels when they could get over 100 digital channels, or 20 HD channels plus 40 SD channels from the same bandwidth the 20 analog channels use up? That's just BS. And I'm not a cable advocate. I've never had cable or sat and never will, but that doesn't change the fact that it's impeding on their business. They should be left alone to doi what they want. If the customers don't like it, then can go elsewhere for service. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
In article [email protected],
says... On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500, whosbest54 wrote: But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use built in tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC tuners? There are a lot of people like that; I've met them. I see no reason why the cable companies can't provide a basic tier of like 20 analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I can grudgingly agree that they should go all digital. Why should the cable company be restricted to 20 analog channels when they could get over 100 digital channels, or 20 HD channels plus 40 SD channels from the same bandwidth the 20 analog channels use up? That's just BS. And I'm not a cable advocate. I've never had cable or sat and never will, but that doesn't change the fact that it's impeding on their business. They should be left alone to doi what they want. If the customers don't like it, then can go elsewhere for service. Because they are a regulated monopoly in most locations and the regulations have to account for a number of factors, not just their business needs. whosbest54 -- The flamewars are over...if you want it. Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://www.geocities.com/whosbest54/ Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://www.geocities.com/whosbest54/rmb.html |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:25:05 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:54:02 -0700, Steve Urbach wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:26:06 GMT, Wes Newell wrote: The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into closed systems like cable. But then, how would they (local government) be able to charge the huge "Franchise" fees they get around here?? How would they mandate what (not *If*), public access programming? I manage to avoid the local "Utility users Tax" as it applies to TV because I don't use Cable or Satellite (taxed along with DSL and Cellular communications). Zip 94306 My mistake. I should have specified federal government, although I thought that was obvious. My point was NO Government should be controlling what cable (and other media) does other than safety (properly installed). a simple building permit and inspection of the cable entrance point (grounding, drip loop...) Lets face it. Most regulation is just another way to generate a "revenue stream" for an over bloated series of government agencies |
"Can't get any TV" related question
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"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:57:21 -0700, Steve Urbach wrote:
My mistake. I should have specified federal government, although I thought that was obvious. My point was NO Government should be controlling what cable (and other media) does other than safety (properly installed). a simple building permit and inspection of the cable entrance point (grounding, drip loop...) Lets face it. Most regulation is just another way to generate a "revenue stream" for an over bloated series of government agencies Well since the cable co. uses existing right of ways and public utilities, the local gov. (you) have every right to negotiate terms with them. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org My Tivo Experience http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/tivo.htm Tivo HD/S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm AMD cpu help http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php |
"Can't get any TV" related question
whosbest54 wrote: In article [email protected], says... On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500, whosbest54 wrote: But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use built in tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC tuners? There are a lot of people like that; I've met them. I see no reason why the cable companies can't provide a basic tier of like 20 analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I can grudgingly agree that they should go all digital. Why should the cable company be restricted to 20 analog channels when they could get over 100 digital channels, or 20 HD channels plus 40 SD channels from the same bandwidth the 20 analog channels use up? That's just BS. And I'm not a cable advocate. I've never had cable or sat and never will, but that doesn't change the fact that it's impeding on their business. They should be left alone to doi what they want. If the customers don't like it, then can go elsewhere for service. Because they are a regulated monopoly in most locations and the regulations have to account for a number of factors, not just their business needs. Except for the fact that their monopoly status passed away some years ago. The governments just don't want to admit it and get their fingers and taxes out of it. |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:59:07 -0400 Thumper wrote:
| On 16 Apr 2008 16:54:02 GMT, wrote: | |On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:10:32 -0400 Thumper wrote: || On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:18:12 -0500, whosbest54 || wrote: || ||In article , ||says... || ||Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environment as a ||result of the digital transition. || ||Why is that? Just get a converter. || ||Ideally, yes. But a lot of people will opt for new sets; others will get rid ||of their old ones when they stop working and won't bother with converters. ||I've met a LOT of people who are doing one or both. Where I live you have to ||pay to recycle the set. The old sets will end up being dumped or in garages ||and basements, to be dumped years later. Old TV replacement has always been ||happening to some extent over the last 60 years, but it will happen much more ||now. || ||whosbest54 || || It's not the government's fault if people decide to junk their tv || instead of getting a converter. | |No, but it is the government's fault that all this change is causing more |people to dump TVs, and in particular, to have to deal with the inconvenience |of tuning their TVs using some newfangled contraption. It's not a total |blame, but it is an area of responsibility. We _will_ have a serious uptick |in illegal dumping, which will end up costing a lot more that funding such a |program to take in these old TVs. A one week long "dump an old TV" amnesty |every 15 months, starting 2009-03 and running through for about 5 years seems |fine to me. Two TVs per person in the first two events, and one per person |thereafter. Paid advertising at the event would be allowed to supplement the |costs (TV sellers and cable/satellite companies might have an interest in it). | | | If you decide to junk your set, you should pay for the recycling. | Thumper But if the government decides to junk it, they should at least pay for the recycling. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:57:21 -0700 Steve Urbach wrote:
| My point was NO Government should be controlling what cable (and other media) | does other than safety (properly installed). a simple building permit and | inspection of the cable entrance point (grounding, drip loop...) | Lets face it. Most regulation is just another way to generate a "revenue | stream" for an over bloated series of government agencies I don't think government should regulate for the revenue generation, beyond the cost of monitoring the regulation. But we do disagree in the level of regulation. I do believe we need government regulation to the extent that it is not a free market. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:35:09 GMT Wes Newell wrote:
| On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:07:08 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote: | | | Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want | one. | I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a | single TV | with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind | an ATSC | receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV | because of the | digital transition unless they are idiots. | | You want to come pick up mine? It's a perfectly good 32 inch CRT TV | that I plan to replace with one that will display HD. Yeah, the reason | for the replacement is not DTV ... it's HD. Otherwise an STB would be | sufficient. But, I don't want to invest in an STB since I expect to | replace the TV with an HDTV eventually (within three years), so that | expedites the desire to replace it so I don't have to buy an STB that | will have no use in a couple years beyond. As soon as I find the right | TV to replace it with, then you can come pick up the old one. | | No, I don't want to come pick up yours. Why not do what I did and find | someone that will be more than happy to get it for free. I even bought a | converter box for them. Or put it out front with a sign that says take me | home I work. It won't be there long. But don't just throw it away. that | was my point, not replacing it. There's no need to fill the landfills with | working TV's when there's lots of people that would be happy to have them. Where I live, no one drives by (which is a good thing ... I can leave my front door unlocked). It's a dead end road way up the side of a hill. I do not qualify for a coupon since I do get cable TV. So I cannot buy one using a coupon. I'd have to pay full price. I will most likely not be replacing this existing TV until after the analog cutoff. So it will be a "TV that does not work for antennas" at that point, except _maybe_ for the one translator we have in town (W41AA) if they don't convert it soon (I should call them up and ask then what they are planning). My point is not specifically about me, though. There will be a *LOT* of old TVs that are not usable for over the air reception. There will not be enough converter _coupons_ for them. That reduces their usability by someone else. Everyone that manages to get a coupon that didn't really need one because they were really going to upgrade to a DTV set (usually HDTV) and just using it to get a converter to give away with the old TV, is depriving someone else later on from getting one, since the coupon funding is finite. OTOH, you will have at least tested the converter for them to be sure it isn't a POJ. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
"Can't get any TV" related question
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"Can't get any TV" related question
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500 whosbest54 wrote:
| But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use built in | tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC tuners? There are a lot | of people like that; I've met them. I see no reason why the cable companies can't | provide a basic tier of like 20 analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I | can grudgingly agree that they should go all digital. That 120 MHz of space can provide 20 SD program streams in analog, or 160 to 200 SD program streams in digital. I'd rather the cable companies provide more choice. Hence, I'll accept the idea of an analog output cable box. I do agree a means is needed for those that want to use the built in tuners. The compromise for that is those people (I being one of them) will need to upgrade to do that; the cable just needs to keep them unscrambled (but just the ones that would be part of basic tier service). The rule could be simple. Cable systems must offer a basic service that includes all over the air stations that are in the market, or in grade A at the customer location, or in grade B at the cable head end, and all local access channels. These programs must not be encrypted or scrambled in any way whether transmitted in analog or digital, so that an appropriate cable capable TV tuner can get them. This much will be required forever. The rest would be required only until 2018: the cable system must provide at no additional cost to the customer, the ability to receive these channels on up to two analog TV sets. -- |WARNING: Due to extreme spam, I no longer see any articles originating from | | Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by more readers | | you will need to find a different place to post on Usenet. | | Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) | |
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