"Can't get any TV" related question
 

In article [email protected],
says...


On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500, whosbest54 wrote:

But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use
built in tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC
tuners? There are a lot of people like that; I've met them. I see no
reason why the cable companies can't provide a basic tier of like 20
analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I can grudgingly agree
that they should go all digital.

Why should the cable company be restricted to 20 analog channels when they
could get over 100 digital channels, or 20 HD channels plus 40 SD channels
from the same bandwidth the 20 analog channels use up? That's just BS. And
I'm not a cable advocate. I've never had cable or sat and never will, but
that doesn't change the fact that it's impeding on their business. They
should be left alone to doi what they want. If the customers don't like
it, then can go elsewhere for service.

Because they are a regulated monopoly in most locations and the regulations
have to account for a number of factors, not just their business needs.

whosbest54
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"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:25:05 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:54:02 -0700, Steve Urbach wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:26:06 GMT, Wes Newell
wrote:

The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into
closed systems like cable.
But then, how would they (local government) be able to charge the huge
"Franchise" fees they get around here?? How would they mandate what (not
*If*), public access programming?
I manage to avoid the local "Utility users Tax" as it applies to TV
because I don't use Cable or Satellite (taxed along with DSL and
Cellular communications).
Zip 94306

My mistake. I should have specified federal government, although I thought
that was obvious.
My point was NO Government should be controlling what cable (and other media)
does other than safety (properly installed). a simple building permit and
inspection of the cable entrance point (grounding, drip loop...)
Lets face it. Most regulation is just another way to generate a "revenue
stream" for an over bloated series of government agencies

"Can't get any TV" related question
 

"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:57:21 -0700, Steve Urbach wrote:

My mistake. I should have specified federal government, although I
thought that was obvious.
My point was NO Government should be controlling what cable (and other
media) does other than safety (properly installed). a simple building
permit and inspection of the cable entrance point (grounding, drip
loop...) Lets face it. Most regulation is just another way to generate a
"revenue stream" for an over bloated series of government agencies

Well since the cable co. uses existing right of ways and public utilities,
the local gov. (you) have every right to negotiate terms with them.



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"Can't get any TV" related question
 

whosbest54 wrote:

In article [email protected],
says...


On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500, whosbest54 wrote:

But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use
built in tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC
tuners? There are a lot of people like that; I've met them. I see no
reason why the cable companies can't provide a basic tier of like 20
analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I can grudgingly agree
that they should go all digital.

Why should the cable company be restricted to 20 analog channels when they
could get over 100 digital channels, or 20 HD channels plus 40 SD channels
from the same bandwidth the 20 analog channels use up? That's just BS. And
I'm not a cable advocate. I've never had cable or sat and never will, but
that doesn't change the fact that it's impeding on their business. They
should be left alone to doi what they want. If the customers don't like
it, then can go elsewhere for service.

Because they are a regulated monopoly in most locations and the regulations
have to account for a number of factors, not just their business needs.

Except for the fact that their monopoly status passed away some years
ago. The governments just don't want to admit it and get their fingers
and taxes out of it.

"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:59:07 -0400 Thumper wrote:
| On 16 Apr 2008 16:54:02 GMT, wrote:
|
|On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:10:32 -0400 Thumper wrote:
|| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:18:12 -0500, whosbest54
|| wrote:
||
||In article ,
||says...
||
||Old TV disposal is an added cost to the consumer and the environment as a
||result of the digital transition.
||
||Why is that? Just get a converter.
||
||Ideally, yes. But a lot of people will opt for new sets; others will get rid
||of their old ones when they stop working and won't bother with converters.
||I've met a LOT of people who are doing one or both. Where I live you have to
||pay to recycle the set. The old sets will end up being dumped or in garages
||and basements, to be dumped years later. Old TV replacement has always been
||happening to some extent over the last 60 years, but it will happen much more
||now.
||
||whosbest54
||
|| It's not the government's fault if people decide to junk their tv
|| instead of getting a converter.
|
|No, but it is the government's fault that all this change is causing more
|people to dump TVs, and in particular, to have to deal with the inconvenience
|of tuning their TVs using some newfangled contraption. It's not a total
|blame, but it is an area of responsibility. We _will_ have a serious uptick
|in illegal dumping, which will end up costing a lot more that funding such a
|program to take in these old TVs. A one week long "dump an old TV" amnesty
|every 15 months, starting 2009-03 and running through for about 5 years seems
|fine to me. Two TVs per person in the first two events, and one per person
|thereafter. Paid advertising at the event would be allowed to supplement the
|costs (TV sellers and cable/satellite companies might have an interest in it).
|
|
| If you decide to junk your set, you should pay for the recycling.
| Thumper

But if the government decides to junk it, they should at least pay for the
recycling.

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"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:57:21 -0700 Steve Urbach wrote:

| My point was NO Government should be controlling what cable (and other media)
| does other than safety (properly installed). a simple building permit and
| inspection of the cable entrance point (grounding, drip loop...)
| Lets face it. Most regulation is just another way to generate a "revenue
| stream" for an over bloated series of government agencies

I don't think government should regulate for the revenue generation, beyond
the cost of monitoring the regulation. But we do disagree in the level of
regulation. I do believe we need government regulation to the extent that
it is not a free market.

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"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:35:09 GMT Wes Newell wrote:
| On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:07:08 +0000, phil-news-nospam wrote:
|
| | Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want
| one. | I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a
| single TV | with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind
| an ATSC | receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV
| because of the | digital transition unless they are idiots.
|
| You want to come pick up mine? It's a perfectly good 32 inch CRT TV
| that I plan to replace with one that will display HD. Yeah, the reason
| for the replacement is not DTV ... it's HD. Otherwise an STB would be
| sufficient. But, I don't want to invest in an STB since I expect to
| replace the TV with an HDTV eventually (within three years), so that
| expedites the desire to replace it so I don't have to buy an STB that
| will have no use in a couple years beyond. As soon as I find the right
| TV to replace it with, then you can come pick up the old one.
|
| No, I don't want to come pick up yours. Why not do what I did and find
| someone that will be more than happy to get it for free. I even bought a
| converter box for them. Or put it out front with a sign that says take me
| home I work. It won't be there long. But don't just throw it away. that
| was my point, not replacing it. There's no need to fill the landfills with
| working TV's when there's lots of people that would be happy to have them.

Where I live, no one drives by (which is a good thing ... I can leave my
front door unlocked). It's a dead end road way up the side of a hill.

I do not qualify for a coupon since I do get cable TV. So I cannot buy one
using a coupon. I'd have to pay full price.

I will most likely not be replacing this existing TV until after the analog
cutoff. So it will be a "TV that does not work for antennas" at that point,
except _maybe_ for the one translator we have in town (W41AA) if they don't
convert it soon (I should call them up and ask then what they are planning).

My point is not specifically about me, though. There will be a *LOT* of old
TVs that are not usable for over the air reception. There will not be enough
converter _coupons_ for them. That reduces their usability by someone else.

Everyone that manages to get a coupon that didn't really need one because they
were really going to upgrade to a DTV set (usually HDTV) and just using it to
get a converter to give away with the old TV, is depriving someone else later
on from getting one, since the coupon funding is finite. OTOH, you will have
at least tested the converter for them to be sure it isn't a POJ.

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"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:10:07 -0500 Jer wrote:
| wrote:
| On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:26:06 GMT Wes Newell wrote:
|
| | AFAIK, they don't have to keep analog feeds at all. All they have to do is
| | provide a way that the customer can watch TV with their old set. They can
| | do that with an STB. The government shouldn't be sticking their nose into
| | closed systems like cable.
|
| It's not entirely a closed system. The cable infrastructure was "earned"
| through a past guranteed monopoly, back when it was viable for multiple
| cable overbuilds (many towns had those), and for slow buildups. These
| companies are operating with a kind of "windfall" of being the incumbent
| owner of the legacy system, even if they have replaced every single part.
|
| That said, I do agree that it is out of line with the government to tell
| the cable companies they cannot switch to 100% digital. I agree that the
| obligation to provide a basic level of service (over the air and local
| access channels) can be satisfied via a box that outputs at least one
| compatible analog output usable by old analog TVs. I believe that 2012
| as the cutoff for this is too short. It should be at least 2018.
|
| I'm a full believer in free markets. Free markets require competition to
| a sufficient degree that a free choice exists. Even having 2 providers
| is not much of a choice. OTOH, the level I think is a free choice (5),
| is not a practical level of overbuild.
|
|
| | Give me a break. There's no reason to get a new TV if you don't want one.
| | I switched to all digital about 4 years ago without having a single TV
| | with a built in digital tuner. The old TV's work fine behind an ATSC
| | receiver. No ones going to throw away a perfectly good TV because of the
| | digital transition unless they are idiots.
|
| You want to come pick up mine? It's a perfectly good 32 inch CRT TV that
| I plan to replace with one that will display HD. Yeah, the reason for the
| replacement is not DTV ... it's HD. Otherwise an STB would be sufficient.
| But, I don't want to invest in an STB since I expect to replace the TV with
| an HDTV eventually (within three years), so that expedites the desire to
| replace it so I don't have to buy an STB that will have no use in a couple
| years beyond. As soon as I find the right TV to replace it with, then you
| can come pick up the old one.
|
|
|
| I already tried giving my old set away, a perfectly good 36" JVC. I
| damn near got a hernia hauling it to the recycler's shredder.

So we need to stick the government with the medical expenses as well :-)

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"Can't get any TV" related question
 

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:17:44 -0500 whosbest54 wrote:

| But what about those who don't want boxes and want to continue to use built in
| tuners as well as their VCRs and DVD recorders with NTSC tuners? There are a lot
| of people like that; I've met them. I see no reason why the cable companies can't
| provide a basic tier of like 20 analog channels for a decade or so. After that, I
| can grudgingly agree that they should go all digital.

That 120 MHz of space can provide 20 SD program streams in analog, or 160 to
200 SD program streams in digital. I'd rather the cable companies provide
more choice. Hence, I'll accept the idea of an analog output cable box.
I do agree a means is needed for those that want to use the built in tuners.
The compromise for that is those people (I being one of them) will need to
upgrade to do that; the cable just needs to keep them unscrambled (but just
the ones that would be part of basic tier service).

The rule could be simple. Cable systems must offer a basic service that
includes all over the air stations that are in the market, or in grade A at
the customer location, or in grade B at the cable head end, and all local
access channels. These programs must not be encrypted or scrambled in any
way whether transmitted in analog or digital, so that an appropriate cable
capable TV tuner can get them. This much will be required forever. The
rest would be required only until 2018: the cable system must provide at no
additional cost to the customer, the ability to receive these channels on up
to two analog TV sets.

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