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New Freesat service
With the launch of the new Freesat service on Astra 2d confirmed for May, I
wondered if it is worth pre-empting the launch by getting one of the 'Sky free for life' packs from Dixons @£75, as then one of the new Freesat receivers could simpy be swapped for the Sky box? Prices for the Freesat receivers are yet to be confirmed but look like: Freesat non-HD (box only) £35 Freesat HD (box only) £99 Freesat HD PVR (box only) £149 The cost of the dish and installation is rumoured to be £50, which seems a good deal, but the uncertainty is if you get a Sky free to view card included in these prices, as at present that's the only way to get channel 4 and 5. If not included the £75 Sky package looks a good deal, as you get the card too.... Any thoughts? |
New Freesat service
GTS wrote:
: Freesat non-HD (box only) ?35 : Freesat HD (box only) ?99 : Freesat HD PVR (box only) ?149 I have also seen - but disbelieve totally!! - these rumours! I will be astonished if the HD-PVR, in particular, is much less than £299. |
New Freesat service
"GTS" wrote in message ... With the launch of the new Freesat service on Astra 2d confirmed for May, I wondered if it is worth pre-empting the launch by getting one of the 'Sky free for life' packs from Dixons @£75, as then one of the new Freesat receivers could simpy be swapped for the Sky box? Prices for the Freesat receivers are yet to be confirmed but look like: Freesat non-HD (box only) £35 Freesat HD (box only) £99 Freesat HD PVR (box only) £149 The cost of the dish and installation is rumoured to be £50, which seems a good deal, but the uncertainty is if you get a Sky free to view card included in these prices, as at present that's the only way to get channel 4 and 5. If not included the £75 Sky package looks a good deal, as you get the card too.... Any thoughts? Yes, get the Sky £75 one as it includes a card it will get Ch4 and Five, but remember after a few months unless you cancel there is a subscription to pay for the subscription stations to continue. Surely this is a better deal than your £35 + £50. -- Regards, David Please reply to News Group |
New Freesat service
On 28/03/2008 20:02, GTS wrote:
With the launch of the new Freesat service on Astra 2d confirmed for May, I wondered if it is worth pre-empting the launch by getting one of the 'Sky free for life' packs from Dixons @£75, as then one of the new Freesat receivers could simpy be swapped for the Sky box? Eh? why do you want to buy sky, then a few weeks later buy freesat? the uncertainty is if you get a Sky free to view card included in these prices, No uncertainty at all, you will only get FTA channels on a freesat box, not FTV (c4/c5/sky3) and not encrypted ones, I doubt it'll even *have* a card slot. |
New Freesat service
On 28/03/2008 20:18, Andy Burns wrote:
not FTV (c4/c5/sky3) I should have mentioned, it's widely expected the c4/e4/m4 channels will change to FTA later in the year, less clear if/when Five channels will do the same. |
New Freesat service
"Andy Burns" wrote in message ... On 28/03/2008 20:02, GTS wrote: With the launch of the new Freesat service on Astra 2d confirmed for May, I wondered if it is worth pre-empting the launch by getting one of the 'Sky free for life' packs from Dixons @£75, as then one of the new Freesat receivers could simpy be swapped for the Sky box? Eh? why do you want to buy sky, then a few weeks later buy freesat? presumably he wants sky to fit the dish for free and then be able to swap when ready. -- Gareth. That fly... is your magic wand. |
New Freesat service
"GTS" wrote in message
... With the launch of the new Freesat service on Astra 2d confirmed for May, I wondered if it is worth pre-empting the launch by getting one of the 'Sky free for life' packs from Dixons @£75, as then one of the new Freesat receivers could simpy be swapped for the Sky box? Prices for the Freesat receivers are yet to be confirmed but look like: Freesat non-HD (box only) £35 Freesat HD (box only) £99 Freesat HD PVR (box only) £149 The cost of the dish and installation is rumoured to be £50, which seems a good deal, but the uncertainty is if you get a Sky free to view card included in these prices, as at present that's the only way to get channel 4 and 5. If not included the £75 Sky package looks a good deal, as you get the card too.... Any thoughts? I think it depends on your DIY skills. Installing a satellite dish is not difficult, and can be done without special equipment though a cheap meter may help. I am a fan of twin tuner PVRs. For these you need a twin ouput LNB which you likely would not get with a standard Sky install. I would budget at least £300 for such a PVR. -- Michael Chare |
New Freesat service
Yes, get the Sky £75 one as it includes a card it will get Ch4 and Five, but remember after a few months unless you cancel there is a subscription to pay for the subscription stations to continue. Surely this is a better deal than your £35 + £50. Ah, but I am only interested in Freesat 'cos of the HD channels - at last, HD with no subscriptions. It should start with BBC1, Channel 4, ITV1, and later Channel 5 HD. So I would get one of the HD PVR's.... |
New Freesat service
I think it depends on your DIY skills. Installing a satellite dish is not
difficult, and can be done without special equipment though a cheap meter may help. I am a fan of twin tuner PVRs. For these you need a twin ouput LNB which you likely would not get with a standard Sky install. I would budget at least £300 for such a PVR. -- Well the guidance price is £149 for a HD twin-tuner PVR, and £50 for the install. But it will be left to the retailers to decide. Seeing as standard vestel clone twin-tuner Freeview PVR's retail for £99 then £149 does not sound too crazy. Humax are meant to be doing Freesat PVR, a upgraded version of their 9002 PVR (9003?) and this is meant to retail nearer to the £299 mark... |
New Freesat service
Eh? why do you want to buy sky, then a few weeks later buy freesat? presumably he wants sky to fit the dish for free and then be able to swap when ready. Exactly. If the prices are anything like the mooted £149 for a HD PVR, then there would be such a rush that I am concerned you could wait ages for a Freesat installer... Gareth. That fly... is your magic wand. |
New Freesat service
"GTS" wrote in message ... Yes, get the Sky £75 one as it includes a card it will get Ch4 and Five, but remember after a few months unless you cancel there is a subscription to pay for the subscription stations to continue. Surely this is a better deal than your £35 + £50. Ah, but I am only interested in Freesat 'cos of the HD channels - at last, HD with no subscriptions. So that's just 3 channels then (BBCHD, 4HD and Luxe), all of them covered with DOG ****. It should start with BBC1, Channel 4, ITV1, and later Channel 5 HD. So I would get one of the HD PVR's.... It should have started by the government passing legislation to force Sky to supply CAMs for standard European satellite reievers. |
New Freesat service
"GTS" wrote in message ... Eh? why do you want to buy sky, then a few weeks later buy freesat? presumably he wants sky to fit the dish for free and then be able to swap when ready. Exactly. If the prices are anything like the mooted £149 for a HD PVR, then there would be such a rush that I am concerned you could wait ages for a Freesat installer... Or you could fit the disk yourself. Astra2 is easy to find. Gareth. That fly... is your magic wand. |
New Freesat service
"GTS" wrote in message ... With the launch of the new Freesat service on Astra 2d confirmed for May, I wondered if it is worth pre-empting the launch by getting one of the 'Sky free for life' packs from Dixons @£75, as then one of the new Freesat receivers could simpy be swapped for the Sky box? Prices for the Freesat receivers are yet to be confirmed but look like: Freesat non-HD (box only) £35 Freesat HD (box only) £99 Freesat HD PVR (box only) £149 The cost of the dish and installation is rumoured to be £50, which seems a Does that include the cost of a Dish, LNB and cable? good deal, but the uncertainty is if you get a Sky free to view card included in these prices, as at present that's the only way to get channel 4 and 5. If not included the £75 Sky package looks a good deal, as you get the card too.... Any thoughts? |
New Freesat service
Does that include the cost of a Dish, LNB and cable? Yes, everything. Sounds cheap, but by all accounts Sky only pays about £35 to the installers for their dishes... |
New Freesat service
GTS wrote:
: Yes, everything. Sounds cheap, but by all accounts Sky only pays about ?35 : to the installers for their dishes... That's not quite true! Sky both supply all the installation gear and then give the dealer a bonus dependent on the new subscription. Then prices you are quoting for Freesat are, at best, trade ones. What the customer will pay is likely to be higher. The Freesat HD-PVR will never be retailed for £149! |
New Freesat service
"Agamemnon" wrote in message . uk... "GTS" wrote in message ... Yes, get the Sky £75 one as it includes a card it will get Ch4 and Five, but remember after a few months unless you cancel there is a subscription to pay for the subscription stations to continue. Surely this is a better deal than your £35 + £50. Ah, but I am only interested in Freesat 'cos of the HD channels - at last, HD with no subscriptions. So that's just 3 channels then (BBCHD, 4HD and Luxe), all of them covered with DOG ****. It should start with BBC1, Channel 4, ITV1, and later Channel 5 HD. So I would get one of the HD PVR's.... It should have started by the government passing legislation to force Sky to supply CAMs for standard European satellite reievers. Hear hear. No legislation required, just a watchdog that actually does something. OTOH the deal TB made with Rupert back in 1995 is holding - NI won't slag off Labour (too much) if Labour doesn't kill NI's goose (by regulation or tax) |
New Freesat service
"GTS" wrote in message
... Does that include the cost of a Dish, LNB and cable? Yes, everything. Sounds cheap, but by all accounts Sky only pays about £35 to the installers for their dishes... Not really. In France in a DIY shed a 60cm dish with LNB typically costs around €20 or about £16 at current rate. Add a wall bracket at about a tenner and you realise how mcuh we are being ripped off over here. A LNB over here usually costs that much alone! -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
New Freesat service
Agamemnon wrote:
: It should have started by the government passing legislation to force Sky to : supply CAMs for standard European satellite reievers. Freesat features (principally their EPG but also red-button etc.) will also *NOT* be available on "standard satellite receivers" - only Freesat badged ones! |
New Freesat service
On 29/03/2008 09:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
Why is it so hard to free-ise the ch4 and 5. those channels signed contracts with sky, the c4 ones are due to end soon (the film4 one already has) |
New Freesat service
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message .. . Why is it so hard to free-ise the ch4 and 5. I'd have thought the industry could have got its act together by now and effectively duplicated the freeview channels on sat. All the different stations have made different contracts at different times with Sky to use their EPG and encryption so they will change when the time of the end of these contracts end. The whole system is a mess from top to bottom, just look at Freeview boxes all have differing features and different remotes etc. The one thing about Sky boxes is the same features, EPG layout, operation and same RC. -- Regards, David Please reply to News Group |
New Freesat service
"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message ... Agamemnon wrote: : It should have started by the government passing legislation to force Sky to : supply CAMs for standard European satellite reievers. Freesat features (principally their EPG but also red-button etc.) will also *NOT* be available on "standard satellite receivers" - only Freesat badged ones! So what was wrong with the BBC using the standard European 7 Day EPG and embedding teletext in the streams and negotiating a European interactive text standard with the EBU? Who's going to buy a BBC receiver which is incompatible with European standards, can't tune into other satellites or transponders apart from the ones pre-programmed into it and which can't decode and can't be upgraded to decode any of the encrypted Sky channels. On top of that how much bandwidth is being removed from the channels themselves in order to facilitate the Freesat EPG and text services? This is going to be another Betamax and HD-DVD! BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs? |
New Freesat service
On 29/03/2008 10:10, Agamemnon wrote:
Who's going to buy a BBC receiver which is incompatible with European standards, can't tune into other satellites or transponders apart from the ones pre-programmed into it and which can't decode and can't be upgraded to decode any of the encrypted Sky channels. Do you know that it won't be capable of entering freq/pol/rate/fec by hand? BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs? Not any more, all subscribers get that option included (but loose it or have to pay separately for it if they stop subscribing) |
New Freesat service
In article , Andy Burns wrote:
BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs? Not any more, all subscribers get that option included (but loose it or* have to pay separately for it if they stop subscribing) So they get the recording facility if they subscribe, i.e. pay, but they don't get it if they don't pay - would that be correct? If so, it would seem to be pretty much equivalent to having to pay for the recording facility. Rod. |
New Freesat service
On 29/03/2008 11:15, Roderick Stewart wrote:
So they get the recording facility if they subscribe, i.e. pay, but they don't get it if they don't pay - would that be correct? If so, it would seem to be pretty much equivalent to having to pay for the recording facility. You used to have to subscribe to channels *and* pay for the recording facility, now if you subscribe to channels the recording facility is included, if you don't subscribe to channels you can pay separately for the recording facility. Or you can say sod sky altogether .... |
New Freesat service
"Andy Burns" wrote in message ... On 29/03/2008 10:10, Agamemnon wrote: Who's going to buy a BBC receiver which is incompatible with European standards, can't tune into other satellites or transponders apart from the ones pre-programmed into it and which can't decode and can't be upgraded to decode any of the encrypted Sky channels. Do you know that it won't be capable of entering freq/pol/rate/fec by hand? Does it have DiSEq. If not it can't control a motorised dish and I'm not going to enter the details of 1600 channels for Hotbird by hand. BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs? Not any more, all subscribers get that option included (but loose it or have to pay separately for it if they stop subscribing) So the only reason, the only, only reason for getting Freesat is so you don't have to pay Sky to record the free channels via the EPG, which you can already do on Freeview and since most of the Freeview channels will still be encrypted using Sky's proprietary encryption system it will only be BBC and ITV channels you can record or even watch. Why don't the BBC just support the standard European EPG and then people can just but a standard European Satellite PVR instead of their new "Betamax" ? |
New Freesat service
Agamemnon wrote:
: Freesat features (principally their EPG but also red-button etc.) will : also *NOT* be available on "standard satellite receivers" - only : Freesat badged ones! : So what was wrong with the BBC using the standard European 7 Day EPG and : embedding teletext in the streams and negotiating a European interactive : text standard with the EBU? Freesat have decided that they wanted *ALL* the facilities of a Sky STB. This includes a dedicated transponder for EPG data on all channels at once...AFAIK the "European standard" *only* gives the (much poorer) "7-day data for that transponder only". Also Freesat will be broadcasting limited EPG data on *all* their transponder (as Sky do to enable cursor-key programme lookup). Basically the "European standard" has been decided to be pretty poor in comparison to Sky! |
New Freesat service
Agamemnon wrote:
: So the only reason, the only, only reason for getting Freesat is so you : don't have to pay Sky to record the free channels via the EPG, which you can : already do on Freeview and since most of the Freeview channels will still be : encrypted using Sky's proprietary encryption system it will only be BBC and : ITV channels you can record or even watch. As far as I can see the *MAIN* selling point of Freesat will be for FTA HD broadcasts (which are just NOT available on Freeview) and for no-cost PVR functionality. Also for those people out of range of a Freeview transmitter. : Why don't the BBC just support the standard European EPG and then people can : just but a standard European Satellite PVR instead of their new "Betamax" ? Bacuse the European Standard is pretty poor and does not provide the features they want?? |
New Freesat service
"David" wrote in message ... "Brian Gaff" wrote in message .. . Why is it so hard to free-ise the ch4 and 5. I'd have thought the industry could have got its act together by now and effectively duplicated the freeview channels on sat. All the different stations have made different contracts at different times with Sky to use their EPG and encryption so they will change when the time of the end of these contracts end. The whole system is a mess from top to bottom, just look at Freeview boxes all have differing features and different remotes etc. The one thing about Sky boxes is the same features, EPG layout, operation and same RC. If the BBC/ITV really wanted to destroy Sky's monopoly they should have encrypted their own channels using a standard European encryption system like IRDETO 2 so Sky would either have to supply boxes with European CAM slots or loose its customes. But everyone knows that the BBC own about 25% of Sky's shares from when they used to own half of BSB and Sky still owns 25% of ITV. Why would anyone want to buy a Freesat box when it is incapable of receiving encrypted channels and will not have the option of a CAM slot to encourage other broadcasters to stop using Sky's proprietary encryption system and use a system used by Freesat (and the rest of Europe) and create an alternative subscription platform or platforms. The BBC should have been forced by OfCom to sell all of its BSkyB shares just like it is trying to forced BSkyB to sell its ITV shares. The BBC owning 25% of Sky is not in the public interest and never was. Freesat is going to flop like something really floppy. -- Regards, David Please reply to News Group |
New Freesat service
"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message ... Agamemnon wrote: : So the only reason, the only, only reason for getting Freesat is so you : don't have to pay Sky to record the free channels via the EPG, which you can : already do on Freeview and since most of the Freeview channels will still be : encrypted using Sky's proprietary encryption system it will only be BBC and : ITV channels you can record or even watch. As far as I can see the *MAIN* selling point of Freesat will be for FTA HD broadcasts (which are just NOT available on Freeview) and for no-cost PVR There are already FTA HD Satellite receivers available for £150. functionality. Also for those people out of range of a Freeview transmitter. : Why don't the BBC just support the standard European EPG and then people can : just but a standard European Satellite PVR instead of their new "Betamax" ? Bacuse the European Standard is pretty poor and does not provide the features they want?? That's no reason for them not to provide 7 Days worth of programme information for people who have standard European satellite relievers and an embedded Teletext stream. Why couldn't the BBC have carried the extra EPG features like series link in an extra stream on top of the standard European EPG data and then manufactures of European satellite receivers could have incorporated the extra functionality in their models for the British market? If Freesat receivers are not going carry a standard European CAM slots then Freesat is already dead since none of the existing Freeview channels apart from the terrestrial analogue ones are every going to go in the clear because they make no shows of their own and the rights holders don't want them picked up for free by people in Europe. As I said before the government should have forced Sky to make CAM's available to all European satellite receivers manufactures not created Freesat. |
New Freesat service
"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message ... Agamemnon wrote: : Freesat features (principally their EPG but also red-button etc.) will : also *NOT* be available on "standard satellite receivers" - only : Freesat badged ones! : So what was wrong with the BBC using the standard European 7 Day EPG and : embedding teletext in the streams and negotiating a European interactive : text standard with the EBU? Freesat have decided that they wanted *ALL* the facilities of a Sky STB. This Except having an encryption system which means none of the channels already encrypted on Sky apart from Channel 4 (and it's extremely unlikely that Five will join them) will go in the clear so Freesat will have less choice than Freeview. You might as well buy a Sky box instead. includes a dedicated transponder for EPG data on all channels at once...AFAIK the "European standard" *only* gives the (much poorer) "7-day data for that transponder only". Also Freesat will be broadcasting limited EPG data on *all* their transponder (as Sky do to enable cursor-key programme lookup). European boxes will allow you to go through all the channels on the Satellite with the EPG and show data for them as long as you've visited them before. What they won't do is organise the channels into a specific order and give them LCNs determined by the broadcasters. Basically the "European standard" has been decided to be pretty poor in comparison to Sky! The European standard was designed to be platform independent. Both Sky and Freesat will only work on Astra 2 and with broadcasters working with Sky or the BBC. Sky's EPG is already full up and Astra only has about 600 channels. Hotbird has over 1000 channels. How many channels will the Freesat EPG be able to cope with? |
New Freesat service
Agamemnon wrote:
: As I said before the government should have forced Sky to make CAM's : available to all European satellite receivers manufactures not created : Freesat. That wasn't the alternative - as, even with a CAM, European receivers just do *NOT* offer the EPG/interactive/digital text features that the BBC wanted! The real alternative was, as Sky *already* offer a non-subscription service - FreesatFromSky, BBC/ITV would have been left with actively promoting FreesatFromSky for reople out of Freeview range! |
New Freesat service
Agamemnon wrote:
.... But everyone knows that the BBC own about 25% of Sky's shares from when they used to own half of BSB Utter crap. and Sky still owns 25% of ITV. 17.9% to be precise. Why would anyone want to buy a Freesat box when it is incapable of receiving encrypted channels and will not have the option of a CAM slot to encourage other broadcasters to stop using Sky's proprietary encryption system and use a system used by Freesat (and the rest of Europe) and create an alternative subscription platform or platforms. The BBC should have been forced by OfCom to sell all of its BSkyB shares just like it is trying to forced BSkyB to sell its ITV shares. The Competition Commission, not Ofcom. The BBC owning 25% of Sky is not in the public interest and never was. Indeed. just as well that the BBC doesn't have any shareholding in Sky then, isn't it? |
New Freesat service
Brian McIlwrath wrote:
Agamemnon wrote: As I said before the government should have forced Sky to make CAM's available to all European satellite receivers manufactures not created Freesat. That wasn't the alternative - as, even with a CAM, European receivers just do *NOT* offer the EPG/interactive/digital text features that the BBC wanted! The real alternative was, as Sky *already* offer a non-subscription service - FreesatFromSky, IIRC FreesatFrom Sky was only offered *after* Freesat from BBC was first announced? BBC/ITV would have been left with actively promoting FreesatFromSky for reople out of Freeview range! Which is effectively what they've been doing ever since the proposal was first mooted.. (kim) |
New Freesat service
kim wrote:
Brian McIlwrath wrote: Agamemnon wrote: As I said before the government should have forced Sky to make CAM's available to all European satellite receivers manufactures not created Freesat. That wasn't the alternative - as, even with a CAM, European receivers just do *NOT* offer the EPG/interactive/digital text features that the BBC wanted! The real alternative was, as Sky *already* offer a non-subscription service - FreesatFromSky, IIRC FreesatFrom Sky was only offered *after* Freesat from BBC was first announced? An FTV/FTA package has always been available from Sky, since the launch of Sky Digital in October 1998. However it was 299 or perhaps even 399 Quid back then ? -- Mark Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply. |
New Freesat service
On 29/03/2008 12:57, kim wrote:
IIRC FreesatFrom Sky was only offered *after* Freesat from BBC was first announced? Under that name certainly, but FTV viewing cards were available before that? |
New Freesat service
Agamemnon wrote:
: : As far as I can see the *MAIN* selling point of Freesat will be for FTA HD : broadcasts (which are just NOT available on Freeview) and for no-cost PVR : There are already FTA HD Satellite receivers available for £150. But PVRs need a full-EPG to to useful to the majority. Freesat *will* provide people who want HD material for their new "HD-ready" TVs a means of getting it - without subscribing to Sky-HD and getting a Sky-HD STB. As far as I can see it is Freesat's *only* "unique selling point" |
New Freesat service
Brian McIlwrath wrote:
Agamemnon wrote: As far as I can see the *MAIN* selling point of Freesat will be for FTA HD broadcasts (which are just NOT available on Freeview) and for no-cost PVR There are already FTA HD Satellite receivers available for £150. But PVRs need a full-EPG to to useful to the majority. Freesat *will* provide people who want HD material for their new "HD-ready" TVs a means of getting it - without subscribing to Sky-HD and getting a Sky-HD STB. As far as I can see it is Freesat's *only* "unique selling point" Never having to deal with a Sky call centre is a major incentive to me. (kim) |
New Freesat service
kim wrote:
: Never having to deal with a Sky call centre is a major incentive to me. Having had Sky for 10+ years I (a) only need to deal with their call centre about once a year and (b) have never had any troubles with them! That being so I do not fully understand why others have such a great dislike of them. |
New Freesat service
Brian McIlwrath wrote:
kim wrote: Never having to deal with a Sky call centre is a major incentive to me. Having had Sky for 10+ years I (a) only need to deal with their call centre about once a year and (b) have never had any troubles with them! That being so I do not fully understand why others have such a great dislike of them. It was bad enough when a *BT* call centre operator spent twenty minutes trying to sell me a Sky subscription without having a Murdoch employee trying to do the same on a premium rate line! (kim) |
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