New Freesat service
 

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
.. .
Why is it so hard to free-ise the ch4 and 5. I'd have thought the industry
could have got its act together by now and effectively duplicated the
freeview channels on sat.


All the different stations have made different contracts at different times
with Sky to use their EPG and encryption so they will change when the time
of the end of these contracts end.

The whole system is a mess from top to bottom, just look at Freeview boxes
all have differing features and different remotes etc.
The one thing about Sky boxes is the same features, EPG layout, operation
and same RC.

--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

New Freesat service
 

"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message
...
Agamemnon wrote:

: It should have started by the government passing legislation to force
Sky to
: supply CAMs for standard European satellite reievers.

Freesat features (principally their EPG but also red-button etc.) will
also
*NOT* be available on "standard satellite receivers" - only Freesat badged
ones!

So what was wrong with the BBC using the standard European 7 Day EPG and
embedding teletext in the streams and negotiating a European interactive
text standard with the EBU?

Who's going to buy a BBC receiver which is incompatible with European
standards, can't tune into other satellites or transponders apart from the
ones pre-programmed into it and which can't decode and can't be upgraded to
decode any of the encrypted Sky channels.

On top of that how much bandwidth is being removed from the channels
themselves in order to facilitate the Freesat EPG and text services?

This is going to be another Betamax and HD-DVD!

BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs?

New Freesat service
 

On 29/03/2008 10:10, Agamemnon wrote:

Who's going to buy a BBC receiver which is incompatible with European
standards, can't tune into other satellites or transponders apart from
the ones pre-programmed into it and which can't decode and can't be
upgraded to decode any of the encrypted Sky channels.

Do you know that it won't be capable of entering freq/pol/rate/fec by hand?

BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs?

Not any more, all subscribers get that option included (but loose it or
have to pay separately for it if they stop subscribing)

New Freesat service
 

In article , Andy Burns wrote:
BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs?

Not any more, all subscribers get that option included (but loose it or*
have to pay separately for it if they stop subscribing)

So they get the recording facility if they subscribe, i.e. pay, but they
don't get it if they don't pay - would that be correct? If so, it would
seem to be pretty much equivalent to having to pay for the recording
facility.

Rod.

New Freesat service
 

On 29/03/2008 11:15, Roderick Stewart wrote:

So they get the recording facility if they subscribe, i.e. pay, but they
don't get it if they don't pay - would that be correct? If so, it would
seem to be pretty much equivalent to having to pay for the recording
facility.

You used to have to subscribe to channels *and* pay for the recording
facility, now if you subscribe to channels the recording facility is
included, if you don't subscribe to channels you can pay separately for
the recording facility.

Or you can say sod sky altogether ....

New Freesat service
 

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
On 29/03/2008 10:10, Agamemnon wrote:

Who's going to buy a BBC receiver which is incompatible with European
standards, can't tune into other satellites or transponders apart from
the ones pre-programmed into it and which can't decode and can't be
upgraded to decode any of the encrypted Sky channels.

Do you know that it won't be capable of entering freq/pol/rate/fec by
hand?

Does it have DiSEq. If not it can't control a motorised dish and I'm not
going to enter the details of 1600 channels for Hotbird by hand.


BTW are Sky still charging for people to record programmes their PVRs?

Not any more, all subscribers get that option included (but loose it or
have to pay separately for it if they stop subscribing)

So the only reason, the only, only reason for getting Freesat is so you
don't have to pay Sky to record the free channels via the EPG, which you can
already do on Freeview and since most of the Freeview channels will still be
encrypted using Sky's proprietary encryption system it will only be BBC and
ITV channels you can record or even watch.

Why don't the BBC just support the standard European EPG and then people can
just but a standard European Satellite PVR instead of their new "Betamax" ?

New Freesat service
 

Agamemnon wrote:
: Freesat features (principally their EPG but also red-button etc.) will
: also *NOT* be available on "standard satellite receivers" - only
: Freesat badged ones!

: So what was wrong with the BBC using the standard European 7 Day EPG and
: embedding teletext in the streams and negotiating a European interactive
: text standard with the EBU?

Freesat have decided that they wanted *ALL* the facilities of a Sky STB. This
includes a dedicated transponder for EPG data on all channels at once...AFAIK
the "European standard" *only* gives the (much poorer) "7-day data for that
transponder only". Also Freesat will be broadcasting limited EPG data on *all*
their transponder (as Sky do to enable cursor-key programme lookup).

Basically the "European standard" has been decided to be pretty poor in
comparison to Sky!

New Freesat service
 

Agamemnon wrote:

: So the only reason, the only, only reason for getting Freesat is so you
: don't have to pay Sky to record the free channels via the EPG, which you can
: already do on Freeview and since most of the Freeview channels will still be
: encrypted using Sky's proprietary encryption system it will only be BBC and
: ITV channels you can record or even watch.

As far as I can see the *MAIN* selling point of Freesat will be for FTA HD
broadcasts (which are just NOT available on Freeview) and for no-cost PVR
functionality. Also for those people out of range of a Freeview transmitter.

: Why don't the BBC just support the standard European EPG and then people can
: just but a standard European Satellite PVR instead of their new "Betamax" ?

Bacuse the European Standard is pretty poor and does not provide the
features they want??

New Freesat service
 

"David" wrote in message
...


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
.. .
Why is it so hard to free-ise the ch4 and 5. I'd have thought the
industry could have got its act together by now and effectively
duplicated the freeview channels on sat.


All the different stations have made different contracts at different
times with Sky to use their EPG and encryption so they will change when
the time of the end of these contracts end.

The whole system is a mess from top to bottom, just look at Freeview boxes
all have differing features and different remotes etc.
The one thing about Sky boxes is the same features, EPG layout, operation
and same RC.

If the BBC/ITV really wanted to destroy Sky's monopoly they should have
encrypted their own channels using a standard European encryption system
like IRDETO 2 so Sky would either have to supply boxes with European CAM
slots or loose its customes. But everyone knows that the BBC own about 25%
of Sky's shares from when they used to own half of BSB and Sky still owns
25% of ITV.

Why would anyone want to buy a Freesat box when it is incapable of receiving
encrypted channels and will not have the option of a CAM slot to encourage
other broadcasters to stop using Sky's proprietary encryption system and use
a system used by Freesat (and the rest of Europe) and create an alternative
subscription platform or platforms.

The BBC should have been forced by OfCom to sell all of its BSkyB shares
just like it is trying to forced BSkyB to sell its ITV shares. The BBC
owning 25% of Sky is not in the public interest and never was.

Freesat is going to flop like something really floppy.


--
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

New Freesat service
 

"Brian McIlwrath" wrote in message
...
Agamemnon wrote:

: So the only reason, the only, only reason for getting Freesat is so you
: don't have to pay Sky to record the free channels via the EPG, which you
can
: already do on Freeview and since most of the Freeview channels will
still be
: encrypted using Sky's proprietary encryption system it will only be BBC
and
: ITV channels you can record or even watch.

As far as I can see the *MAIN* selling point of Freesat will be for FTA HD
broadcasts (which are just NOT available on Freeview) and for no-cost PVR

There are already FTA HD Satellite receivers available for £150.

functionality. Also for those people out of range of a Freeview
transmitter.

: Why don't the BBC just support the standard European EPG and then people
can
: just but a standard European Satellite PVR instead of their new
"Betamax" ?

Bacuse the European Standard is pretty poor and does not provide the
features they want??

That's no reason for them not to provide 7 Days worth of programme
information for people who have standard European satellite relievers and an
embedded Teletext stream. Why couldn't the BBC have carried the extra EPG
features like series link in an extra stream on top of the standard European
EPG data and then manufactures of European satellite receivers could have
incorporated the extra functionality in their models for the British market?

If Freesat receivers are not going carry a standard European CAM slots then
Freesat is already dead since none of the existing Freeview channels apart
from the terrestrial analogue ones are every going to go in the clear
because they make no shows of their own and the rights holders don't want
them picked up for free by people in Europe.

As I said before the government should have forced Sky to make CAM's
available to all European satellite receivers manufactures not created
Freesat.