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Region 0 DVDs
Just taken delivery of a DVD from the US. It says on the back "Region
0". My Panasonic DMR-E55 will play only Region 2 and Region ALL DVDs. I've spoken to a company that will change Region 2 players to multi-region, but he said quite firmly that my player ought to play "Region 0". Anyone any ideas? Thanks Edward |
Region 0 DVDs
wrote in message
... Just taken delivery of a DVD from the US. It says on the back "Region 0". My Panasonic DMR-E55 will play only Region 2 and Region ALL DVDs. I've spoken to a company that will change Region 2 players to multi-region, but he said quite firmly that my player ought to play "Region 0". Anyone any ideas? Thanks Edward I presume you've tried it? What makes you think that your player will play "region all" DVDs? BTW, if it's from the US it should be region 1 - region 0 means "region free". Paul DS. |
Region 0 DVDs
"Edster" wrote in message
... wrote: Just taken delivery of a DVD from the US. It says on the back "Region 0". My Panasonic DMR-E55 will play only Region 2 and Region ALL DVDs. I've spoken to a company that will change Region 2 players to multi-region, but he said quite firmly that my player ought to play "Region 0". Anyone any ideas? Thanks Edward Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it you will still need a TV that will display NTSC. Most DVD players can be made region free by pressing a sequence of buttons on the remote control. Try looking yours up on Google. I thought NTSC was totally irrelevent providing you're using RGB (SCART) output. The refresh rate will be 60Hz but most modern TVs accept this happily. We need the OP to say what happens when he tries to play his Region 0 DVD - do he get a weird picture, no picture or an error message on screen from the DVD player? Paul DS. |
Region 0 DVDs
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Region 0 DVDs
In article ,
Edster wrote: wrote: Just taken delivery of a DVD from the US. It says on the back "Region 0". My Panasonic DMR-E55 will play only Region 2 and Region ALL DVDs. I've spoken to a company that will change Region 2 players to multi-region, but he said quite firmly that my player ought to play "Region 0". Anyone any ideas? Thanks Edward Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it you will still need a TV that will display NTSC. Are you sure about this. I thought that the picture was recorded in a digital format and was converted to NTSC or PAL by the playback machine. It might however have been recorded with a 60Hz field rate. Most tvs designed to playback 50Hz will work happily at 60Hz, but not the other way round. -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
Region 0 DVDs
"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message ... I thought NTSC was totally irrelevent providing you're using RGB (SCART) output. The refresh rate will be 60Hz but most modern TVs accept this happily indeed. only a loony would actually be watching a dvd in PAL or NTSC in this day and age. -- Gareth. That fly... is your magic wand. |
Region 0 DVDs
wrote in message
... : Just taken delivery of a DVD from the US. It says on the back "Region : 0". Region *0* is all regions. Which is not the same as PAL or NTSC or SECAM. |
Region 0 DVDs
Edster wrote:
wrote: Just taken delivery of a DVD from the US. It says on the back "Region 0". My Panasonic DMR-E55 will play only Region 2 and Region ALL DVDs. I've spoken to a company that will change Region 2 players to multi-region, but he said quite firmly that my player ought to play "Region 0". Anyone any ideas? Thanks Edward Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it you will still need a TV that will display NTSC. Most DVD players can be made region free by pressing a sequence of buttons on the remote control. Try looking yours up on Google. The Panasonic needs a service remote to make multiregion though it shouldn't have any problems with region 0. |
Region 0 DVDs
wrote in message Anyone any ideas? Yes, try it, then tell us if it plays the region DVDs you have. -- Regards, David Please reply to News Group |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , charles
wrote: In article , Edster Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it you will still need a TV that will display NTSC. Are you sure about this. I thought that the picture was recorded in a digital format and was converted to NTSC or PAL by the playback machine. Yes. But the 'digital format' will be based either on 50Hz/625line nominal or 60Hz/525line, and so may simple be reconstructed into the analogue format determined by this. The confusion is due to the way disc makers use 'PAL' and 'NTSC' to refer to the frame rate and number of lines used for the digital video recorded on the disc. Thus using terms intended for analogue colour broadcasting modulation schemes for a different purpose. It might however have been recorded with a 60Hz field rate. Most tvs designed to playback 50Hz will work happily at 60Hz, but not the other way round. I have a number of 'NTSC region 0' discs - mainly classical music performances. In my experience a typical player will then output 60Hz/525 line nominal via SCART and leave it to the display to cope and show the result. Although some players can be set to convert and output 50Hz/625 nominal. Snag being the addition of objectionable visible artefacts. I also have some discs which are 'PAL region 0', so it is clear that they can be made and used if the authors so arrange. Personally, I find it irritating that it common for *European* and *UK* sourced DVDs of classical music to be in 'NTSC' sic format as this needlessly degrades the image resolution. Result can look worse than on DTTV which is crazy given the information bandwidth available for the DVD. Particularly in cases where the original source materials was 'PAL' sic and has been brainlessly converted for the DVD. Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-) Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html |
Region 0 DVDs
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:52:15 +0000, Edster wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote: In article , charles wrote: In article , Edster Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it you will still need a TV that will display NTSC. Are you sure about this. I thought that the picture was recorded in a digital format and was converted to NTSC or PAL by the playback machine. Yes. But the 'digital format' will be based either on 50Hz/625line nominal or 60Hz/525line, and so may simple be reconstructed into the analogue format determined by this. The confusion is due to the way disc makers use 'PAL' and 'NTSC' to refer to the frame rate and number of lines used for the digital video recorded on the disc. Thus using terms intended for analogue colour broadcasting modulation schemes for a different purpose. It might however have been recorded with a 60Hz field rate. Most tvs designed to playback 50Hz will work happily at 60Hz, but not the other way round. I have a number of 'NTSC region 0' discs - mainly classical music performances. In my experience a typical player will then output 60Hz/525 line nominal via SCART and leave it to the display to cope and show the result. Although some players can be set to convert and output 50Hz/625 nominal. Snag being the addition of objectionable visible artefacts. I also have some discs which are 'PAL region 0', so it is clear that they can be made and used if the authors so arrange. Personally, I find it irritating that it common for *European* and *UK* sourced DVDs of classical music to be in 'NTSC' sic format as this needlessly degrades the image resolution. Result can look worse than on DTTV which is crazy given the information bandwidth available for the DVD. Particularly in cases where the original source materials was 'PAL' sic and has been brainlessly converted for the DVD. Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-) Slainte, Jim It all comes down to cost. If something is of such low interest it wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe, and you couldn't make them PAL only because then people in America and Asia wouldn't be able to play them. How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. |
Region 0 DVDs
In article ,
Scott wrote: How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. That's not true. What we can do is to watch pictures made at the American line/frame rate. This is because it is possible to drive tv set field rate faster than intended, but you can't drive it slower. In Europe we use 50 field per second while in the USA they use 60fps. The line rate is very nearly the same. We can't watch NTSC colour on our sets - unless they are multistandard ones. -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
Region 0 DVDs
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:24:47 GMT, Scott
wrote: On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:52:15 +0000, Edster wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote: In article , charles wrote: In article , Edster Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it you will still need a TV that will display NTSC. Are you sure about this. I thought that the picture was recorded in a digital format and was converted to NTSC or PAL by the playback machine. Yes. But the 'digital format' will be based either on 50Hz/625line nominal or 60Hz/525line, and so may simple be reconstructed into the analogue format determined by this. The confusion is due to the way disc makers use 'PAL' and 'NTSC' to refer to the frame rate and number of lines used for the digital video recorded on the disc. Thus using terms intended for analogue colour broadcasting modulation schemes for a different purpose. It might however have been recorded with a 60Hz field rate. Most tvs designed to playback 50Hz will work happily at 60Hz, but not the other way round. I have a number of 'NTSC region 0' discs - mainly classical music performances. In my experience a typical player will then output 60Hz/525 line nominal via SCART and leave it to the display to cope and show the result. Although some players can be set to convert and output 50Hz/625 nominal. Snag being the addition of objectionable visible artefacts. I also have some discs which are 'PAL region 0', so it is clear that they can be made and used if the authors so arrange. Personally, I find it irritating that it common for *European* and *UK* sourced DVDs of classical music to be in 'NTSC' sic format as this needlessly degrades the image resolution. Result can look worse than on DTTV which is crazy given the information bandwidth available for the DVD. Particularly in cases where the original source materials was 'PAL' sic and has been brainlessly converted for the DVD. Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-) Slainte, Jim It all comes down to cost. If something is of such low interest it wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe, and you couldn't make them PAL only because then people in America and Asia wouldn't be able to play them. How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. I think it just comes down to lack of demand for PAL in the US. I believe there are some TV sets in the US that can display PAL. Marky P. |
Region 0 DVDs
Edster wrote:
It all comes down to cost. If something is of such low interest it wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe ... I'm sure cost comes into it, but don't imagine that PAL is a uniquely European standard. It would be truer to say that NTSC is the minority standard. See, for instance the map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL . André Coutanche |
Region 0 DVDs
charles wrote:
In article , Scott wrote: How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. That's not true. What we can do is to watch pictures made at the American line/frame rate. This is because it is possible to drive tv set field rate faster than intended, but you can't drive it slower. In Europe we use 50 field per second while in the USA they use 60fps. The line rate is very nearly the same. We can't watch NTSC colour on our sets - unless they are multistandard ones. The context of "PAL" and "NTSC" in this thread is as per the markings on DVDs, which means the line/frame rate. There's a billion DVDs out there, so like it or not, that's the dominant meaning. -- Dave Farrance |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , Dave Farrance
wrote: charles wrote: In article , Scott wrote: How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. That's not true. What we can do is to watch pictures made at the American line/frame rate. This is because it is possible to drive tv set field rate faster than intended, but you can't drive it slower. In Europe we use 50 field per second while in the USA they use 60fps. The line rate is very nearly the same. We can't watch NTSC colour on our sets - unless they are multistandard ones. The context of "PAL" and "NTSC" in this thread is as per the markings on DVDs, which means the line/frame rate. There's a billion DVDs out there, so like it or not, that's the dominant meaning. and 2 + 2 = 5? PAL is only a colour (not color) system and is used on either the 625/50 or 525/60 line system. NTSC, on the other hand, stands for the (American) National Television System Committee and covers both line standard and color. Why can't the DVDs say 525 or 625 - that's all that is relevant. -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
Region 0 DVDs
charles wrote:
PAL is only a colour (not color) system and is used on either the 625/50 or 525/60 line system. NTSC, on the other hand, stands for the (American) National Television System Committee and covers both line standard and color. Why can't the DVDs say 525 or 625 - that's all that is relevant. Before DVDs appeared, the public vaguely knew that PAL=European tellys and NTSC=American tellys, so that's what went on the DVDs. Far fewer people would have known what 525 or 625 meant. And as you say, NTSC did cover the line standard, so there was no ambiguity there, and America was by far the main market. Meanings of many words change so there's no need to get cut up about it -- because they're just convenient labels. Only Brazil with the obscure PAL-M gets trouble. -- Dave Farrance |
Region 0 DVDs
Scott wrote:
How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. Generally speaking, the field scan generators in American sets are crystal locked to 60Hz. European field scan generators are nominally set at 50Hz but can also lock onto any signal in the 40-60Hz range. (kim) |
Region 0 DVDs
In message , kim
writes Scott wrote: How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just wondering. Generally speaking, the field scan generators in American sets are crystal locked to 60Hz. European field scan generators are nominally set at 50Hz but can also lock onto any signal in the 40-60Hz range. (kim) You might be right, but surely this is an unnecessary embellishment? Why would they need this level of sophistication? Also, I don't think that it has been mentioned that, when using a 'plays NTSC' PAL player to watch an NTSC video on a PAL TV set, although the field/line rate is 60/525, the player puts colour out at 4.43MHz. [Unless it's like my £20 Alba player, which plays Region 1 and 2 (and probably all), and can output 3.57MHz colour if you want it.] -- Ian |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , Edster
wrote: Jim Lesurf wrote: Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-) It all comes down to cost. Actually, it may come down to 'return' rather than 'cost' since it seems that 'PAL' material being being converted. Thus adding a stage to the production costs which could be avoided if they just kept to 'PAL'. If something is of such low interest it wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe, and you couldn't make them PAL only because then people in America and Asia wouldn't be able to play them. Which assumes the point I made above. That we in the UK/Europe are presumed to all to need to have PAL/NTSC kit, but that people in the USA are a special breed who are only required to have NTSC kit. Given what I describe, what is happening is that they have decided not to have a 'special version' for the *USA*. Instead we are all lumbered with the poorer resolution, and the artifacts. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , Marky P
wrote: I think it just comes down to lack of demand for PAL in the US. I believe there are some TV sets in the US that can display PAL. Symptom of the way the disc authors blandly assume we will all put up with NTSC. There would be a 'demand' if people in the USA found they needed PAL compatability to play the kinds of discs I have been referring to. Hence the point I made in an earlier posting. TBH I am far from sure that the sales of DVDs of classical music performances in the USA are vastly higher than they are for the entire European area. Given that many of the discs are of European performances, and often have been transmitted in Europe as a PAL original the whole behaviour seems lazy or arrogant to me. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , Kim wrote:
Generally speaking, the field scan generators in American sets are crystal* locked to 60Hz. I've seen lots of service manuals for television sets, many of the modern ones showing the alternative circuitry for various international versions, but I've never, ever, seen one that showed a crystal oscillator in either the line or field timebase circuits. I'm sure it's possible to do it, but I've never seen one. Crystals are used in the colour decoding circuitry where a different level of stability is required, but not in the timebases. American timebase circuits look just like everybody else's with a few slightly different resistor values. It's a requirement of a field scan generator that it can recover from a discontinuity such as might result from switching to a different channel, within two or three cycles, otherwise the effect is very disturbing. A crystal oscillator would respond much too slowly, so in fact it would make matters worse. Mostly the oscillators are just based on RC charging circuits and free-run about 10%-20% slow unless triggered. Rod. |
Region 0 DVDs
On 27 Feb, 15:32, "David" wrote:
wrote in message Anyone any ideas? Yes, try it, then tell us if it plays the region DVDs you have. My original post was somewhat short on useful information - sorry. I'm a bit further on than I was. There are two discs, both "Region 0". One will play fine in my Panasonic DMR-E55, the other will not. When the blue DVD logo appears, it has a message superimposed on it to the effect that "You cannot play discs from this region". This disc plays fine in my PC. The Panasonic manual states that "You cannot play DVD-Video if their region number does not include "2" or "All". The DVD-Video region number indicates the disc conforms to a standard. You cannot play discs that do not have a region number". I've been in touch with the supplier of the discs (I'm in the UK, the discs are from the USA) and he says that both discs were manufactured and encoded identically. The only difference I can find is that the one that doesn't play has 24bit PCM. I suppose it's possible that the one that DOES play has flags 1-6 set, and the other has no flags set - both therefore Region 0, but only one playable in my picky and hitherto unimpeachable Panasonic player. What I need is a tool that will read the underlying flags of the Region code. Thanks Edward |
Region 0 DVDs
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:36:19 -0000, Roderick Stewart
wrote: crystal oscillator would respond much too slowly, so in fact it would make matters worse. Mostly the oscillators are just based on RC charging circuits and free-run about 10%-20% slow unless triggered. Rod. Oscillators in TVs aren't triggered. If they were the timebase would stop in the abscence of a signal. The are synchronised and run slow in the abscence of a sync signal. |
Region 0 DVDs
In message , John Evans
writes On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:36:19 -0000, Roderick Stewart wrote: crystal oscillator would respond much too slowly, so in fact it would make matters worse. Mostly the oscillators are just based on RC charging circuits and free-run about 10%-20% slow unless triggered. Rod. Oscillators in TVs aren't triggered. If they were the timebase would stop in the abscence of a signal. The are synchronised and run slow in the abscence of a sync signal. Which explains why a set with a 50Hz field will usually lock to a 60Hz signal, but not vice versa. But I think you are splitting hairs over Rod's use of 'triggered'. His explanation is absolutely 100% correct. -- Ian |
Region 0 DVDs
|
Region 0 DVDs
In article
, wrote: On 27 Feb, 15:32, "David" wrote: There are two discs, both "Region 0". One will play fine in my Panasonic DMR-E55, the other will not. When the blue DVD logo appears, it has a message superimposed on it to the effect that "You cannot play discs from this region". This disc plays fine in my PC. The Panasonic manual states that "You cannot play DVD-Video if their region number does not include "2" or "All". The DVD-Video region number indicates the disc conforms to a standard. You cannot play discs that do not have a region number". I've been in touch with the supplier of the discs (I'm in the UK, the discs are from the USA) and he says that both discs were manufactured and encoded identically. Well, if the non-playing disc isn't a faulty one, then your experiment apparently refutes his theory. :-) Contact them again and ask which is more likely, that the disc is faulty and should be replaced, or that his theory is incorrect. If the former, then a replacement or refund would be due, I assume. The only difference I can find is that the one that doesn't play has 24bit PCM. I suppose it's possible that the one that DOES play has flags 1-6 set, and the other has no flags set - both therefore Region 0, but only one playable in my picky and hitherto unimpeachable Panasonic player. What I need is a tool that will read the underlying flags of the Region code. When a disc is marginal or faulty in some way it can be hard to predict in advance which players/drives will play it OK, and which won't. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , Ian Jackson wrote:
Oscillators in TVs aren't triggered. If they were the timebase would stop in the abscence of a signal. The are synchronised and run slow in the abscence of a sync signal. Which explains why a set with a 50Hz field will usually lock to a 60Hz* signal, but not vice versa. But I think you are splitting hairs over Rod's use of 'triggered'. His* explanation is absolutely 100% correct. Thanks. In a way he's correct because a field timebase will oscillate without any external trigger pulses, i.e. it doesn't just stop, though you could say that in the absence of an external pulse the field timebase oscillator will eventually trigger itself. It must wait till a little time after the expected time of the external pulse before doing so of course, which is why the free-running frequency of this type of oscillator is lower than the synchronised frequency (unlike a flywheel oscillator where it's nominally the same). Rod. |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , Jim Lesurf wrote:
TBH I am far from sure that the sales of DVDs of classical music performances in the USA are vastly higher than they are for the entire European area. Given that many of the discs are of European performances, and often have been transmitted in Europe as a PAL original the whole behaviour seems lazy or arrogant to me. Quite a lot of European or British recordings are released first in the USA, and are unobtainable in their country of origin for some time. Thank goodness for Amazon and region-free DVD players. Rod. |
Region 0 DVDs
Dave Farrance wrote:
Only Brazil with the obscure PAL-M gets trouble. And oh boy, *do* they have trouble. (PAL-M being NTSC frame/line rate and PAL composite colour.) Just out of curiosity, I've searched thorough some Brazilian technical forums, using Google to translate from the Portuguese. The recurrent theme is people tearing their hair out over black-and-white pictures and/or de-synchronised pictures and getting much confused and contradictory advice. Fix it by using SCART? They don't have SCART. Recent TVs there are supposed to have S-video inputs and handle both NTSC and PAL, but unofficial imports exceed official imports by 50%, so they get a mix of everything. Are they learning from their problems? For digital TV, instead of choosing DVB-T like Europe (including Portugal, where all their relatives are) or ATSC like all the countries around them, they've chosen ISDB, the go-it-alone Japanese standard. Wonderful. -- Dave Farrance |
Region 0 DVDs
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:35:19 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote: In message , John Evans writes On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:36:19 -0000, Roderick Stewart wrote: crystal oscillator would respond much too slowly, so in fact it would make matters worse. Mostly the oscillators are just based on RC charging circuits and free-run about 10%-20% slow unless triggered. Rod. Oscillators in TVs aren't triggered. If they were the timebase would stop in the abscence of a signal. The are synchronised and run slow in the abscence of a sync signal. Which explains why a set with a 50Hz field will usually lock to a 60Hz signal, but not vice versa. But I think you are splitting hairs over Rod's use of 'triggered'. His explanation is absolutely 100% correct. I'm thinking of anyone following this thread who wants to understand how things work, or who wants to diagnose faults. In which case the correct terminology is important. I agree that a timebase can be "triggered" into synchronisation by a pulse, but there is a difference between a triggered time base, that requires a pulse to operate, and a free running one that is synchronised by a pulse. |
Region 0 DVDs
In article , John Evans
wrote: I'm thinking of anyone following this thread who wants to understand how things work, or who wants to diagnose faults. In which case the correct terminology is important. * I agree that a timebase can be "triggered" into synchronisation by a pulse, but there is a difference between a triggered time base, that requires a pulse to operate, and a free running one that is synchronised by a pulse. I'm using the terminology they used at Wood Norton, and which I've seen used in magazines like Wireless World. My understanding is that a trigger pulse is a pulse that triggers an event of some sort, in the case of a TV field timebase the discharge of the timing capacitor. In the absence of the external trigger pulse the capacitor would eventually be discharged by other means, but I don't see that this makes any difference, as the external trigger pulse, when it is present, does in fact trigger it. If a trigger pulse triggers an event, then there's an implication that in the absence of the pulse, something will fail to happen - which is exactly how it is. The thing that fails to happen need not be the continuous running of an oscillator, but just its return to some starting condition at a particular time. I don't know how it is in all branches of electronics, but in television, a pulse that is required to produce an output from a subsequent circuit (rather than simply to control its timing) would be called a drive pulse. One of the pulses from the old style sync generators was called "Line Drive", and at least the earliest cameras required it for the line "oscillator" to produce an output. I've even encountered computer monitors like this, i.e. when there is no line drive signal from the computer, horizontal scanning in the monitor simply stops, and there is no EHT either because the same circuit does both. Rod. |
Region 0 DVDs
In message , Jim Lesurf
writes In article , wrote: On 27 Feb, 15:32, "David" wrote: There are two discs, both "Region 0". One will play fine in my Panasonic DMR-E55, the other will not. When the blue DVD logo appears, it has a message superimposed on it to the effect that "You cannot play discs from this region". This disc plays fine in my PC. The Panasonic manual states that "You cannot play DVD-Video if their region number does not include "2" or "All". The DVD-Video region number indicates the disc conforms to a standard. You cannot play discs that do not have a region number". I've been in touch with the supplier of the discs (I'm in the UK, the discs are from the USA) and he says that both discs were manufactured and encoded identically. Well, if the non-playing disc isn't a faulty one, then your experiment apparently refutes his theory. :-) Contact them again and ask which is more likely, that the disc is faulty and should be replaced, or that his theory is incorrect. If the former, then a replacement or refund would be due, I assume. The only difference I can find is that the one that doesn't play has 24bit PCM. I suppose it's possible that the one that DOES play has flags 1-6 set, and the other has no flags set - both therefore Region 0, but only one playable in my picky and hitherto unimpeachable Panasonic player. What I need is a tool that will read the underlying flags of the Region code. When a disc is marginal or faulty in some way it can be hard to predict in advance which players/drives will play it OK, and which won't. Slainte, Jim If it only the one DVD which is giving you the problem, have you tried to play it in your computer? If you don't have a program installed which will play DVDs - or you do have one, but which will only play Region 2 (unless you change the setting for the DVD drive - and you won't want to do that) - install something like VLC Media Player, which ignores DVD regions. If you can get it to play OK, why not copy it to another disk? -- Ian |
Region 0 DVDs
If a trigger pulse triggers an event, then there's an implication that in the absence of the pulse, something will fail to happen - which is exactly how it is. The thing that fails to happen need not be the continuous running of an oscillator, but just its return to some starting condition at a particular time. I don't know how it is in all branches of electronics, but in television, a pulse that is required to produce an output from a subsequent circuit (rather than simply to control its timing) would be called a drive pulse. One of the pulses from the old style sync generators was called "Line Drive", and at least the earliest cameras required it for the line "oscillator" to produce an output. I've even encountered computer monitors like this, i.e. when there is no line drive signal from the computer, horizontal scanning in the monitor simply stops, and there is no EHT either because the same circuit does both. Rod. There is a fundamental difference between a triggered timebase and a synchronised one. In a triggerd timebase the pulse initiates the scan and in a synchronised one it initiates the flyback. The latter can be seen on the video waveform where the black period after the video information ,and prior to the sync pulse, is the "Front Porch" and the one after it, and before the video, is the "Back Porch". The flyback takes place after the front edge of the pulse and before the end of the back porch. Both can be seen on an oscilloscope where the timebase can be either Triggered/Freerunning/One (or single) shot. (Some times the triggered is made to free run at a low scan rate so that the spot can be seen). The trigger level starts the scan. A one shot is a triggerd time base that is held off until an event occurs - sometimes just the user pushing a button. I know that it can be said that the sync pulse triggers ( better - initiates) the flyback and that a triggerd timebase is synchronised but that is not how they are defined. |
Region 0 DVDs
In article ,
John Evans wrote: If a trigger pulse triggers an event, then there's an implication that in the absence of the pulse, something will fail to happen - which is exactly how it is. The thing that fails to happen need not be the continuous running of an oscillator, but just its return to some starting condition at a particular time. I don't know how it is in all branches of electronics, but in television, a pulse that is required to produce an output from a subsequent circuit (rather than simply to control its timing) would be called a drive pulse. One of the pulses from the old style sync generators was called "Line Drive", and at least the earliest cameras required it for the line "oscillator" to produce an output. I've even encountered computer monitors like this, i.e. when there is no line drive signal from the computer, horizontal scanning in the monitor simply stops, and there is no EHT either because the same circuit does both. Rod. There is a fundamental difference between a triggered timebase and a synchronised one. In a triggerd timebase the pulse initiates the scan and in a synchronised one it initiates the flyback. The latter can be seen on the video waveform where the black period after the video information ,and prior to the sync pulse, is the "Front Porch" and the one after it, and before the video, is the "Back Porch". The flyback takes place after the front edge of the pulse and before the end of the back porch. err, no. The flyback starts at the start of the blanking period, ie the start of front porch. Flyback happens when the scanning voltage reaches it maximum and quickly discharges to be ready for the next trigger. -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
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In article , John Evans
wrote: There is a fundamental difference between a triggered timebase and a synchronised one. In a triggerd timebase the pulse initiates the scan and in a synchronised one it initiates the flyback. In the one that you want to call a triggered timebase, presumably if there is no trigger pulse the scan does not take place. If that's the case, then it doesn't seem right to call it a timebase at all, because it isn't an oscillator that can produce an output on its own. I've seen a computer monitor like this, but never a television set. If you want to call this a synchronised oscillator, then how do you distinguish it from the other sort, commonly used in line timebases, where the oscillator free runs at the correct speed (subject to component drift etc) but is brought into synchronism by a control voltage derived from a phase comparator? By your nomenclature, both types of oscillator are synchronised by the pulses, though the mechanisms are quite different and they behave differently when the pulses are not there. The one that you want to call a triggered oscillator doesn't seem to be an oscillator at all, because in the absence of pulses it would produce no output. I know that it can be said that the sync pulse triggers ( better - initiates) the flyback and that a triggerd timebase is synchronised but that is not how they are defined. By whom are they defined? Rod. |
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On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:11:48 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote: In article , err, no. The flyback starts at the start of the blanking period, ie the start of front porch. Flyback happens when the scanning voltage reaches it maximum and quickly discharges to be ready for the next trigger. Err yes! The flyback is initiated by the negative going edge of the sync pulse that occurs at then end of the front porch. The pulse puts the oscillator voltage over the threshold and the oscillator resets. It then starts the scanning part of the cycle again. It is free running in the absense of a sync pulse. |
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In the one that you want to call a triggered timebase, presumably if there is no trigger pulse the scan does not take place. Correct. If that's the case, then it doesn't seem right to call it a timebase at all, because it isn't an oscillator that can produce an output on its own. A timebase is a device that produces an output proportional to time - hence its name. Its still a timebase whether its free running, triggered or single shot if thats what it does. I've seen a computer monitor like this, but never a television set. Triggerd timebases aren't used in TV sets - thats my original point. If you want to call this a synchronised oscillator, then how do you distinguish it from the other sort, commonly used in line timebases, where the oscillator free runs at the correct speed (subject to component drift etc) but is brought into synchronism by a control voltage derived from a phase comparator? Surely synchronised means in step/time with. The difference between triggered and free running is the latter "free runs" in the absence of a pulse but the former doesn't. The are both kept in step by the pulse. The phase comparator oscillators are free running - those that I know of at least. The difference is that they are controlled by a voltage derived from the pulse and not by the pulse directly. By your nomenclature, both types of oscillator are synchronised by the pulses, though the mechanisms are quite different and they behave differently when the pulses are not there. The one that you want to call a triggered oscillator doesn't seem to be an oscillator at all, because in the absence of pulses it would produce no output. See above. By whom are they defined? The definition is inherent in the way the work , one needs a pulse to make it operate and the other free runs with no pulse present. It was taught this way (by someone who designed oscillators for TVs , RADAR , oscilloscopes etc) to make sure the operation was understood.. This terminology is used on an oscilloscope, sometimes with the free running state being called Auto Mode. |
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In article , John Evans wrote:
err, no. *The flyback starts at the start of the blanking period, ie the start of front porch. *Flyback happens when the scanning voltage reaches it maximum and quickly discharges to be ready for the next trigger. Err yes! The flyback is initiated by the negative going edge of the sync pulse that occurs at then end of the front porch. The pulse puts the oscillator voltage over the threshold and the oscillator resets. It then starts the scanning part of the cycle again. It is free running in the absense of a sync pulse. In a field timebase this is more or less what happens, but not in a modern line timebase. Line pulses don't reset anything; they are compared in a phase comparator with a sawtooth voltage derived from the oscillator, to produce a control voltage which is applied to the oscillator to control its frequency. This arrangement is known as a phase locked loop or flywheel sync. Rod. |
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In article , Roderick Stewart
wrote: In article , John Evans wrote: err, no. The flyback starts at the start of the blanking period, ie the start of front porch. Flyback happens when the scanning voltage reaches it maximum and quickly discharges to be ready for the next trigger. Err yes! The flyback is initiated by the negative going edge of the sync pulse that occurs at then end of the front porch. The pulse puts the oscillator voltage over the threshold and the oscillator resets. It then starts the scanning part of the cycle again. It is free running in the absense of a sync pulse. In a field timebase this is more or less what happens, but not in a modern line timebase. Line pulses don't reset anything; they are compared in a phase comparator with a sawtooth voltage derived from the oscillator, to produce a control voltage which is applied to the oscillator to control its frequency. This arrangement is known as a phase locked loop or flywheel sync. Flywheel sync isn't terribly modern - it's been around for at least 40 years. -- From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 |
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