Region 0 DVDs
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:52:15 +0000, Edster wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:


In article , charles
wrote:
In article , Edster

Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it
you will still need a TV that will display NTSC.

Are you sure about this. I thought that the picture was recorded in a
digital format and was converted to NTSC or PAL by the playback machine.

Yes. But the 'digital format' will be based either on 50Hz/625line nominal
or 60Hz/525line, and so may simple be reconstructed into the analogue
format determined by this.

The confusion is due to the way disc makers use 'PAL' and 'NTSC' to refer
to the frame rate and number of lines used for the digital video recorded
on the disc. Thus using terms intended for analogue colour broadcasting
modulation schemes for a different purpose.


It might however have been recorded with a 60Hz field rate. Most tvs
designed to playback 50Hz will work happily at 60Hz, but not the other
way round.

I have a number of 'NTSC region 0' discs - mainly classical music
performances. In my experience a typical player will then output 60Hz/525
line nominal via SCART and leave it to the display to cope and show the
result. Although some players can be set to convert and output 50Hz/625
nominal. Snag being the addition of objectionable visible artefacts.

I also have some discs which are 'PAL region 0', so it is clear that they
can be made and used if the authors so arrange.

Personally, I find it irritating that it common for *European* and *UK*
sourced DVDs of classical music to be in 'NTSC' sic format as this
needlessly degrades the image resolution. Result can look worse than on
DTTV which is crazy given the information bandwidth available for the DVD.
Particularly in cases where the original source materials was 'PAL' sic
and has been brainlessly converted for the DVD.

Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too
cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer
resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

It all comes down to cost. If something is of such low interest it
wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe, and
you couldn't make them PAL only because then people in America and
Asia wouldn't be able to play them.

How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

Region 0 DVDs
 

In article ,
Scott wrote:

How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

That's not true. What we can do is to watch pictures made at the American
line/frame rate. This is because it is possible to drive tv set field rate
faster than intended, but you can't drive it slower. In Europe we use 50
field per second while in the USA they use 60fps. The line rate is very
nearly the same. We can't watch NTSC colour on our sets - unless they are
multistandard ones.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Region 0 DVDs
 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:24:47 GMT, Scott
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:52:15 +0000, Edster wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:


In article , charles
wrote:
In article , Edster

Region 0 is almost always NTSC, so even if you DVD player will play it
you will still need a TV that will display NTSC.

Are you sure about this. I thought that the picture was recorded in a
digital format and was converted to NTSC or PAL by the playback machine.

Yes. But the 'digital format' will be based either on 50Hz/625line nominal
or 60Hz/525line, and so may simple be reconstructed into the analogue
format determined by this.

The confusion is due to the way disc makers use 'PAL' and 'NTSC' to refer
to the frame rate and number of lines used for the digital video recorded
on the disc. Thus using terms intended for analogue colour broadcasting
modulation schemes for a different purpose.


It might however have been recorded with a 60Hz field rate. Most tvs
designed to playback 50Hz will work happily at 60Hz, but not the other
way round.

I have a number of 'NTSC region 0' discs - mainly classical music
performances. In my experience a typical player will then output 60Hz/525
line nominal via SCART and leave it to the display to cope and show the
result. Although some players can be set to convert and output 50Hz/625
nominal. Snag being the addition of objectionable visible artefacts.

I also have some discs which are 'PAL region 0', so it is clear that they
can be made and used if the authors so arrange.

Personally, I find it irritating that it common for *European* and *UK*
sourced DVDs of classical music to be in 'NTSC' sic format as this
needlessly degrades the image resolution. Result can look worse than on
DTTV which is crazy given the information bandwidth available for the DVD.
Particularly in cases where the original source materials was 'PAL' sic
and has been brainlessly converted for the DVD.

Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too
cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer
resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

It all comes down to cost. If something is of such low interest it
wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe, and
you couldn't make them PAL only because then people in America and
Asia wouldn't be able to play them.

How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

I think it just comes down to lack of demand for PAL in the US. I
believe there are some TV sets in the US that can display PAL.

Marky P.

Region 0 DVDs
 

Edster wrote:
It all comes down to cost. If something is of such low interest it
wouldn't make sense to have special PAL versions just for Europe ...

I'm sure cost comes into it, but don't imagine that PAL is a uniquely
European standard. It would be truer to say that NTSC is the minority
standard. See, for instance the map at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL .

André Coutanche

Region 0 DVDs
 

charles wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:

How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

That's not true. What we can do is to watch pictures made at the American
line/frame rate. This is because it is possible to drive tv set field rate
faster than intended, but you can't drive it slower. In Europe we use 50
field per second while in the USA they use 60fps. The line rate is very
nearly the same. We can't watch NTSC colour on our sets - unless they are
multistandard ones.

The context of "PAL" and "NTSC" in this thread is as per the markings on
DVDs, which means the line/frame rate. There's a billion DVDs out there,
so like it or not, that's the dominant meaning.

--
Dave Farrance

Region 0 DVDs
 

In article , Dave Farrance
wrote:
charles wrote:

In article , Scott
wrote:

How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

That's not true. What we can do is to watch pictures made at the
American line/frame rate. This is because it is possible to drive tv
set field rate faster than intended, but you can't drive it slower. In
Europe we use 50 field per second while in the USA they use 60fps. The
line rate is very nearly the same. We can't watch NTSC colour on our
sets - unless they are multistandard ones.

The context of "PAL" and "NTSC" in this thread is as per the markings on
DVDs, which means the line/frame rate. There's a billion DVDs out there,
so like it or not, that's the dominant meaning.

and 2 + 2 = 5?

PAL is only a colour (not color) system and is used on either the 625/50 or
525/60 line system. NTSC, on the other hand, stands for the (American)
National Television System Committee and covers both line standard and
color. Why can't the DVDs say 525 or 625 - that's all that is relevant.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

Region 0 DVDs
 

charles wrote:

PAL is only a colour (not color) system and is used on either the 625/50 or
525/60 line system. NTSC, on the other hand, stands for the (American)
National Television System Committee and covers both line standard and
color. Why can't the DVDs say 525 or 625 - that's all that is relevant.

Before DVDs appeared, the public vaguely knew that PAL=European tellys
and NTSC=American tellys, so that's what went on the DVDs. Far fewer
people would have known what 525 or 625 meant. And as you say, NTSC did
cover the line standard, so there was no ambiguity there, and America was
by far the main market. Meanings of many words change so there's no need
to get cut up about it -- because they're just convenient labels. Only
Brazil with the obscure PAL-M gets trouble.

--
Dave Farrance

Region 0 DVDs
 

Scott wrote:
How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

Generally speaking, the field scan generators in American sets are crystal
locked to 60Hz.

European field scan generators are nominally set at 50Hz but can also lock
onto any signal in the 40-60Hz range.

(kim)

Region 0 DVDs
 

In message , kim
writes
Scott wrote:
How come we can play NTSC and the Yanks can't play PAL? Just
wondering.

Generally speaking, the field scan generators in American sets are crystal
locked to 60Hz.

European field scan generators are nominally set at 50Hz but can also lock
onto any signal in the 40-60Hz range.

(kim)

You might be right, but surely this is an unnecessary embellishment? Why
would they need this level of sophistication?

Also, I don't think that it has been mentioned that, when using a 'plays
NTSC' PAL player to watch an NTSC video on a PAL TV set, although the
field/line rate is 60/525, the player puts colour out at 4.43MHz.
[Unless it's like my £20 Alba player, which plays Region 1 and 2 (and
probably all), and can output 3.57MHz colour if you want it.]
--
Ian

Region 0 DVDs
 

In article , Edster
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:



Maybe the authors fear that USA makers of players or displays are too
cheapskate to cover 'PAL' sic. If so, we are all stuck with poorer
resolution to keep someone in the USA happy in their ignorance. :-)


It all comes down to cost.

Actually, it may come down to 'return' rather than 'cost' since it seems
that 'PAL' material being being converted. Thus adding a stage to the
production costs which could be avoided if they just kept to 'PAL'.

If something is of such low interest it wouldn't make sense to have
special PAL versions just for Europe, and you couldn't make them PAL
only because then people in America and Asia wouldn't be able to play
them.

Which assumes the point I made above. That we in the UK/Europe are
presumed to all to need to have PAL/NTSC kit, but that people in the USA
are a special breed who are only required to have NTSC kit.

Given what I describe, what is happening is that they have decided not to
have a 'special version' for the *USA*. Instead we are all lumbered with
the poorer resolution, and the artifacts.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html