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BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
I was hanging out with the cool kids in rec.arts.drwho when
Edster got out a spraycan and scrawled the following: Mark wrote: [...] Or better still not use a DOG at all! Then you could see the whole of the picture as the programme maker intended. As a matter of interest has anyone asked the production companies and program makers what they think about their work being defaced? I doubt they will have any control over it. It will be a choice between making money or not making money, if anything at all. If the programme makers had any pride in their work they would consider the logo and coming next banner areas as dead parts of the screen and make sure nothing worth seeing was ever in them. The makers of "Drawn Together" have already done something like this - in one episode, they deliberately put Ling Ling's subtitles in the area where they knew the banner-ad would appear, so the other characters have (more) reason to claim they can't understand him. -- Remove caps to communicate more easily. Happiness will prevail |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
Here's interesting:
I went to www.bbc.co.uk/complaints to add my 2p-worth. On that page I clicked on the link to "Send your complaint". This took me to http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/make...nt_step1.shtml. There I clicked on "send a comment/tell you my views". This gets me to www.bbc.co.uk/info/contactus/ which lists a lot of FAQ-type links. I clicked on "how to make a complaint" which takes me to ..... www.bbc.co.uk/complaints! Now discovered that you need to click on the "make an official complaint" link (is there such a thing as an unofficial complaint?). I have sent the following: I have been reading comments posted on a couple of newsgroups concerning DOGs (Digital On-screen Graphics), especially that on BBC3 with interest. Having just bought a plasma screen TV, I am concerned that the constant display of a DOG will affect my screen. I have read articles which are reportedly from the BBC which appear to dismiss such concerns, and excuse the use of DOGs in the name of branding. I have no need to be constantly reminded which channel I'm watching. I generally know which channel I am watching (usually by time-shift in any case) and am able to quickly discover the channel name using my remote should I forget! Nor do I want my enjoyment of my new HD screen displaying what the BBC can do very well - namely nature programmes (eg Life in Cold Blood) and quality drama marred by visually distracting DOGs. Because they are distracting, since they are intended to be noticed and read by the viewer. Please add my complaint to your growing pile of anti-DOG correspondence. -- George |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
In article , Clive wrote:
Well, most novels I read already have 'a dog' at the top of the page with the book and/or chapter name..... (Although not obscuring the actual text of course) That's the important bit. The metadata doesn't obscure the main data. Digital TV already carries lots of programme information in a manner that doesn't obscure picture or sound, which could be said to be equivalent to book/chapter/page info in a book, so nothing useful is added to the broadcast by duplicating it anywhere. Duplicating it on top of the picture actually makes matters worse. Rod. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
In article , Edster wrote:
If the programme makers had any pride in their work they would consider the logo and coming next banner areas as dead parts of the screen and make sure nothing worth seeing was ever in them. No. People who have pride in their work do the best work they can. Compromising your work to accommodate the butchery you assume someone will subsequently perform on it is more like giving up. Rod. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On Feb 26, 2:29*pm, "Agamemnon" wrote:
wrote in message ... On 26 Feb, 13:54, Edster wrote: Even if it is only a small minority of viewers who would do that (which I accept), why would they want to lose them in this "age of multi channel competition ... " they keep going on about? Surely they would want to keep or attract as many viewers as possible if it was all about numbers? They want to make damn sure that every single one of the poor sods left watching cannot forget, even for one second, what channel they are watching. It shows such a high level of paranoia, especially for a broadcaster like the BBC who's funding is "guaranteed", that it's quite disturbing. Look that what the ******* have done to Torchwood on BBC3. Even with a DOG **** remover Captain Jack's face is completely obliterated.. http://www.enthymia.co.uk/dog****1.jpg http://www.enthymia.co.uk/dog****2.jpg It might be obliterated in that particular shot (and the immediate preceding and following frames) but compared to the bright pink logo from the original is a vast improvement Altogether now: "WHO LET THE DOGS OUT?" Regards Ged |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
In , Paul Martin wrote:
In article , Edster wrote: They already do that on BBC2, but I meant the programme makers putting dialogue on the end credits, and then the continuity announcer shouting something over the top of it. "My Family" and "Dead Ringers" used to do it. That's because continuity is often not live nowadays, but prerecorded and automated. On occasion, the viewing public even get to hear the recording taking place -- over the top of the evening's programming... Always good for a quick giggle! -- Regards, Ben A L Jemmett. http://flatpack.microwavepizza.co.uk/ |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On 28 Feb, 16:25, Edster wrote:
Paul Martin wrote: In article , Edster wrote: No, it just shows they have no more respect for their audience than the broadcasters do. It's like the ones who put dialogue in the end credits knowing full well that the viewers won't be able to hear it over the announcer's voiceover. They know in advance what is going to happen to it, so there's really no excuse. Dialogue over end credits was the previous fad aimed at preventing the viewers from reaching for the remote control. The next step I suppose will be to have a ticker at the bottom with a now-and-next schedule on it. They already do that on BBC2, but I meant the programme makers putting dialogue on the end credits, and then the continuity announcer shouting something over the top of it. "My Family" and "Dead Ringers" used to do it. I've never heard the end of "My Family" crashed, though the way the previous series had live action until the very end would be against current BBC guidelines. If you make a programme today, you cannot imagine what might be done to it in five years time. No one in 2003 would have dreamt that their work would be sized into a sub 1/4 screen window, necessitating the use of 48pt letters to maintain readability! Cheers, David. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On Feb 29, 4:57*pm, "
wrote: On 28 Feb, 16:25, Edster wrote: Paul Martin wrote: In article , * *Edster wrote: No, it just shows they have no more respect for their audience than the broadcasters do. It's like the ones who put dialogue in the end credits knowing full well that the viewers won't be able to hear it over the announcer's voiceover. They know in advance what is going to happen to it, so there's really no excuse. Dialogue over end credits was the previous fad aimed at preventing the viewers from reaching for the remote control. The next step I suppose will be to have a ticker at the bottom with a now-and-next schedule on it. They already do that on BBC2, but I meant the programme makers putting dialogue on the end credits, and then the continuity announcer shouting something over the top of it. "My Family" and "Dead Ringers" used to do it. I've never heard the end of "My Family" crashed, though the way the previous series had live action until the very end would be against current BBC guidelines. If you make a programme today, you cannot imagine what might be done to it in five years time. No one in 2003 would have dreamt that their work would be sized into a sub 1/4 screen window, necessitating the use of 48pt letters to maintain readability! Cheers, David. Here are the actual guidelines for end credits! http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/c...position.shtml Comments include what the background should be, the size of the text, the positioning, and the instruction not to contain anything critical to plot and it credits must NOT contain speech! -- Mr Maff |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
Mike Henry writes:
One ITV2 continuity announcer even had the gall to say that he felt nervous talking over it, because there was no sound to fade down or talk over. So he should have done what continuity announcers always used to do and wait for the credits to finish before making the announcements. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
[ groups cut ]
"Graham Murray" wrote in message ... Mike Henry writes: One ITV2 continuity announcer even had the gall to say that he felt nervous talking over it, because there was no sound to fade down or talk over. So he should have done what continuity announcers always used to do and wait for the credits to finish before making the announcements. But then he would have been eating into the time available for commercials, who cares about the programmes, it's the adverts that pay the bills! |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
":Jerry:" wrote in message : : [ groups cut ] : : : : "Graham Murray" wrote in : : message ... : : : Mike Henry writes: : : : : : : : One ITV2 continuity announcer even had the gall to : : : : say that he felt nervous talking over it, because : : : : there was no sound to fade down or talk over. : : : : : : So he should have done what continuity announcers : : : always used to do and : : : wait for the credits to finish before making the : : : announcements. : : : : But then he would have been eating into the time : : available for commercials, who cares about the : : programmes, it's the adverts that pay the bills! But what about on the BBC..? Ivor |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Ivor Jones" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote in message snip : : : : : : So he should have done what continuity announcers : : : always used to do and : : : wait for the credits to finish before making the : : : announcements. : : : : But then he would have been eating into the time : : available for commercials, who cares about the : : programmes, it's the adverts that pay the bills! But what about on the BBC..? What about the BBC, they might not show 'commercial' adverts (on UK channels) but they are running themselves - at HMGs behest - like a commercial company hence the internal adverts (aka trailers), BBC2 competing for ratings with BBC4 and the such like. Can we have our BBC and PSB channels back please? :~( |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 18:17:46 +0000, Mike Henry
wrote: To see this taken to extremes, look and the end credits for the American version of "The Office" (currently showing on ITV2 and I believe BBC4). Big white text on a black background, in total silence! I think the programme makers are having the last laugh here. One ITV2 continuity announcer even had the gall to say that he felt nervous talking over it, because there was no sound to fade down or talk over. The credits are only like that because they're never screened domestically in the USA (they're part of a far more elaborate split-screened combination which doesn't rely on a video squeeze) - so minimal effort is spent to just tag them on for international distribution. -- |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Mike Henry" wrote in message ... In , Paul Martin wrote: [ groups cut ] snip Um... I remember continuity announcers talking over credits in the 1970s, especially on the BBC. As do I, but they were reserved for abnormal cases, ie a) "That was the last in the current series" b) "Next week's programme will be on at different time instead of normal time that 99% of the episodes were shown at" An announcement over the end credits was unusual, so you sat up and took notice of it, which was the whole point esp. in case (b), so they worked and people knew about the time change. They also respected the programme mood and content, even when an announcement was needed. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 02:36:58 -0800 (PST), maffster wrote:
Here are the actual guidelines for end credits! That is a very new specification: "All pre-recorded network programmes for BBC One, Two, Three, and Four delivered on or after Friday 1st June 2007 should conform to the new guidelines." Older programmes don't have to conform but its still doesn't stop pres fupping them up. What I find annoying is the inconsistency in a channel depending on wether it is running fully automatic or has live links. CBBC when on automatic runs full credits full screen with cuts (or down and ups) to (repatative) links. When live links are involved the credits disapper into small monitor in the set and the sound faded out after a few seconds. -- Cheers Dave. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... snip The BBC has DAB radios to advertise. Without the DAB adverts on the BBC nobody would ever buy one. ********! DAB radios don't need advertising, just the name is enough, what is holding back sales is the price-point, the average person (buying into DAB) is either to ignorant to understand that "Digital" doesn't, automagically, mean better or they are simple not audiophiles wanting "CD" quality sound - which is after all crap anyway, so what do they know... |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message [snip] : : The BBC has DAB radios to advertise. Without the DAB : : adverts on the BBC nobody would ever buy one. That's true I suppose. BBC WM has an irritating trail for itself, part of which says it's on "FM and DAB Digital Radio" - what do they think the D in DAB stands for..?! Digital Audio Broadcasting Digital Radio. Hmm. Ivor |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message
: : 20 quid now aren't they? Even at that price, and with : : all the adverts on the BBC, people still don't want : : them. People would rather listen to the radio through : : their TV because it sounds better. You don't need to : : be an audiophile to know that, you just need to have : : ears. I do most of my radio listening in the car. I am not after super-hifi quality, I just want to be able to listen to the World Service and BBC7. But I can't get a DAB radio that fits my car. Next..? Ivor |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message . .. snip The BBC has DAB radios to advertise. Without the DAB adverts on the BBC nobody would ever buy one. ********! DAB radios don't need advertising, just the name is enough, what is holding back sales is the price-point, the average person (buying into DAB) is either to ignorant to understand that "Digital" doesn't, automagically, mean better or they are simple not audiophiles wanting "CD" quality sound - which is after all crap anyway, so what do they know... 20 quid now aren't they? Compared to what, a 'Fiver' for a cheapo analogue bedside clock-radio or small portable for the bathroom?... Even at that price, and with all the adverts on the BBC, people still don't want them. People would rather listen to the radio through their TV because it sounds better. You don't need to be an audiophile to know that, you just need to have ears. I bet a 20 quid DAB radio sounds a LOT better than a cheapo small CR or portable analogue radio. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message
: : "Ivor Jones" wrote: [snip] : : : I do most of my radio listening in the car. I am not : : : after super-hifi quality, I just want to be able to : : : listen to the World Service and BBC7. But I can't get : : : a DAB radio that fits my car. : : : : : : Next..? : : : : : : Ivor : : : : Record what you want to listen to from Freeview and : : play it through an mp3 player. I haven't got an MP3 player in the car either, it's only a bog standard AM/FM job. Besides, that approach only works if I remember something's on and remember to record it. Sometimes I like to just listen to what's on live at the time. Ivor |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message . .. ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message m... snip The BBC has DAB radios to advertise. Without the DAB adverts on the BBC nobody would ever buy one. ********! DAB radios don't need advertising, just the name is enough, what is holding back sales is the price-point, the average person (buying into DAB) is either to ignorant to understand that "Digital" doesn't, automagically, mean better or they are simple not audiophiles wanting "CD" quality sound - which is after all crap anyway, so what do they know... 20 quid now aren't they? Compared to what, a 'Fiver' for a cheapo analogue bedside clock-radio or small portable for the bathroom?... But cheap enough for unemployed single parents to afford if they wanted one. Yes, the five quid analogue radio is, they only need to miss the one meal... Even at that price, and with all the adverts on the BBC, people still don't want them. People would rather listen to the radio through their TV because it sounds better. You don't need to be an audiophile to know that, you just need to have ears. I bet a 20 quid DAB radio sounds a LOT better than a cheapo small CR or portable analogue radio. Only if you wanted to listen to Radio 3 all day. Otherwise they will sound flat and tinny, just like £500 DAB radios do. That is total ********! |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... "Ivor Jones" wrote: snip I do most of my radio listening in the car. I am not after super-hifi quality, I just want to be able to listen to the World Service and BBC7. But I can't get a DAB radio that fits my car. Record what you want to listen to from Freeview and play it through an mp3 player. Are you just stupid or are you a troll?... |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... snip Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message . .. "Ivor Jones" wrote: snip I do most of my radio listening in the car. I am not after super-hifi quality, I just want to be able to listen to the World Service and BBC7. But I can't get a DAB radio that fits my car. Record what you want to listen to from Freeview and play it through an mp3 player. Are you just stupid or are you a troll?... How else is he going to get BBC7 in a car? With a DAB car radio, he was not complaining that there are no DAB car radios, just that non of the ones that are available will fit - a problem that many now have since radios started to be built into the styling of the dash, as a means to deter the scum-bag criminal. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message . .. ":Jerry:" wrote: snip I bet a 20 quid DAB radio sounds a LOT better than a cheapo small CR or portable analogue radio. Only if you wanted to listen to Radio 3 all day. Otherwise they will sound flat and tinny, just like £500 DAB radios do. That is total ********! No it isn't. It doesn't matter how much or how little you spend on a DAB radio they will all sound the same. They can only receive what is transmitted. If the transmission is flat and tinny that is what you will get. The comparison was against a cheapo, less than 5 quid, analogue radio, so yes you remark was and still is ******** - no one is comparing one DAB receiver against another, read the thread again, but then the anti DAB trolls never like the facts to get in the way of their trolls. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
Edster wrote:
":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message ... "Ivor Jones" wrote: snip I do most of my radio listening in the car. I am not after super-hifi quality, I just want to be able to listen to the World Service and BBC7. But I can't get a DAB radio that fits my car. Record what you want to listen to from Freeview and play it through an mp3 player. Are you just stupid or are you a troll?... How else is he going to get BBC7 in a car? I thought Jerry was asking about himself, he's certainly stupid enough. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message . .. snip Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! BBC7 doesn't have news and current affairs programmes. What it does have also gets repeated several times a day. But the person who started this sub thread wants to listen to the BBC World Service also. Next... |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
I wrote about emailing complaints at the Beeb to add my 2p worth to the
pile of anti-DOG correspondence. I've just had a reply, which includes, among other stuff, the following: "These Channel Identifiers are */semi transparent/* and */reduced brightness/* so any object passing through this area can still be seen. All our broadcasts (and we assume those of any other broadcaster) comply with the specifications to which both broadcasters and reciever manufacturers should adhere." [my emphasis added] George |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: With a DAB car radio, he was not complaining that there are no DAB car radios, just that non of the ones that are available will fit - a problem that many now have since radios started to be built into the styling of the dash, as a means to deter the scum-bag criminal. There you go then. No other way to do it. Glad that you (now) that having a great number of DAB radios to choose from is the way forward. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Adrian" wrote in message ... snip he's certainly stupid enough. Adrian, you really should stop talking about yourself all the time, they say it's the first sign of madness - BTW how is your CitC going?... |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
:Jerry: wrote:
With a DAB car radio, he was not complaining that there are no DAB car radios, just that non of the ones that are available will fit - a problem that many now have since radios started to be built into the styling of the dash, as a means to deter the scum-bag criminal. Most manufacturers will do you a kit to put a DIN radio in their "special dash". Andy |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Andy Champ" wrote in message ... :Jerry: wrote: With a DAB car radio, he was not complaining that there are no DAB car radios, just that non of the ones that are available will fit - a problem that many now have since radios started to be built into the styling of the dash, as a means to deter the scum-bag criminal. Most manufacturers will do you a kit to put a DIN radio in their "special dash". Will they, I would suggest that on many makes / models it's impossible due to the fact that there is actually no opening suitable for a DIN mount, at best I would suggest that some will allow what you suggest and that other manufactures will provide some sort of DAB back end to interface with the existing dashboard mounted radio controls. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message . .. ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message m... snip Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! BBC7 doesn't have news and current affairs programmes. What it does have also gets repeated several times a day. But the person who started this sub thread wants to listen to the BBC World Service also. Next... 648 on AM radio. If you're lucky and in the right part of the country, next.... |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Edster" wrote in message ... snip Shame nobody's buying them then, despite all the adverts on BBC TV. Why do you suppose that would be then? As I said, originally, the problem is not with the DAB service but the price point of DAB receivers, it's a no brainer what the majority will opt for - or indeed not at all, preferring to get their "CD quality music" from a CD rather then the whims of a DJ. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On 3 Mar, 16:53, Edster wrote:
":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message .. . snip Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! BBC7 doesn't have news and current affairs programmes. What it does have also gets repeated several times a day. ....and is available on demand on their website for 7 days after broadcast. The sound quality is lower than DAB, but the convenience and range is far greater! Cheers, David. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
wrote in message ... On 3 Mar, 16:53, Edster wrote: ":Jerry:" wrote: "Edster" wrote in message .. . snip Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! BBC7 doesn't have news and current affairs programmes. What it does have also gets repeated several times a day. ...and is available on demand on their website for 7 days after broadcast. The sound quality is lower than DAB, but the convenience and range is far greater! How does one listen to it in the car though considering that it's an "On demand" service rather than a "Download"? Duh! |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
On 4 Mar, 16:07, Paul Martin wrote:
In article , * * * * :Jerry: wrote: wrote in message ... On 3 Mar, 16:53, Edster wrote: ":Jerry:" wrote: Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! BBC7 doesn't have news and current affairs programmes. What it does have also gets repeated several times a day. ...and is available on demand on their website for 7 days after broadcast. The sound quality is lower than DAB, but the convenience and range is far greater! How does one listen to it in the car though considering that it's an "On demand" service rather than a "Download"? Duh! mplayer -ao pcm:waveheader:file=output.wav rtsp://... There is (was?) a nice list of all those listen again URLs too, and a GUI to make use of that information. It was discussed here a year or so back. There are probably other solutions by now. Cheers, David. |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
"Paul Martin" wrote in message ... In article , :Jerry: wrote: wrote in message ... On 3 Mar, 16:53, Edster wrote: ":Jerry:" wrote: Record a day's worth and listen to it the following day. Wow, you must be God, for how else can someone record tomorrows news and current affairs today?! BBC7 doesn't have news and current affairs programmes. What it does have also gets repeated several times a day. ...and is available on demand on their website for 7 days after broadcast. The sound quality is lower than DAB, but the convenience and range is far greater! How does one listen to it in the car though considering that it's an "On demand" service rather than a "Download"? Duh! mplayer -ao pcm:waveheader:file=output.wav rtsp://... But you still can't listen live or 'On demand', all listening would need to be pre planed... |
BBC admits it lied about DOGs on BBC3
Paul Martin wrote on 02/03/2008 18:59:
In article , Ivor Jones wrote: "Online, OnDigital and OnEightyeightToNinetyoneFM" As a physicist by training[0], it was drilled into me to always use appropriate units, so every time they miss off the megahertz I wince. Did you mean MegaHertz? :-p Peter (also a physics graduate doing something non-physicsy) -- http://www.scandrett.net/lx/ http://www.scandrett.net/bike/ |
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