|
|
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
"(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? -- and they're exactly the people that'll have difficulty with setting-up and using a set-top-box. With most set top boxes, there is no setting up, as the service provider generally sends out an engineer to install the box and show you how it works. Even if it's a freeview one, you can normally ask the shop you'er buying from to send out or reccomend an engineer to fit it for you. So can they return analogue tellys and DVDRs when they discover that they've become unusable for them -- as not fit for the stated purpose But they are fit for the stated purpose. Their stated purpose is to recive and display an analogue TV signal. This analogue TV signal is created by a set top box which converts it from a digital TV signal. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:51:19 -0000, "/\\BratMan/\\"
wrote: "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? If you are going to put a four word reply in the middle of a post of several paras could you please snip the part below .:-) Stuart |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:51:19 -0000, "/\\BratMan/\\"
wrote: "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? -- and they're exactly the people that'll have difficulty with setting-up and using a set-top-box. With most set top boxes, there is no setting up, as the service provider generally sends out an engineer to install the box and show you how it works. Even if it's a freeview one, you can normally ask the shop you'er buying from to send out or reccomend an engineer to fit it for you. So can they return analogue tellys and DVDRs when they discover that they've become unusable for them -- as not fit for the stated purpose But they are fit for the stated purpose. Their stated purpose is to recive and display an analogue TV signal. This analogue TV signal is created by a set top box which converts it from a digital TV signal. More importantly if the set has a SCART socket (as almost all do) you could continue to use it with a digital decoder. So it will continue fulfil its purpose as a television. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
"/\BratMan/\" wrote in message
... "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working Actually analogue TVs are very useful for Laserdisc owning opera lovers who want to read the teletext subtitles. But I realise we are a dying breed (possibly literally). -- Max Demian |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
/\BratMan/\ wrote:
"(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? Oh yes. There are a couple of amateur radio societies who are dippingtheir toes into these waters, and they have websites. I remember reading them about a year ago and found it really interesting - if a little technicologically over my head. I can't remember the URL's off the top of my head, but I do have old bookmarks archived on backup CD's, so I'll see if I can fish them out for you. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
(not quite so) Fat Sam wrote:
/\BratMan/\ wrote: "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? Oh yes. There are a couple of amateur radio societies who are dippingtheir toes into these waters, and they have websites. I remember reading them about a year ago and found it really interesting - if a little technicologically over my head. I can't remember the URL's off the top of my head, but I do have old bookmarks archived on backup CD's, so I'll see if I can fish them out for you. Amateur TV has been going since the 1940s. On the amateur bands of course with repeaters. See http://www.batc.org.uk/ Some are now using digital but using the satellite modulation system (DVB-S) not DTT. (DVBS-T) http://www.gb3hv.com/index.html -- Ashley For Windsor Weather see www.snglinks.com/wx |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:32:06 -0000, "Max Demian"
wrote: "/\BratMan/\" wrote in message ... "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working Actually analogue TVs are very useful for Laserdisc owning opera lovers who want to read the teletext subtitles. But I realise we are a dying breed (possibly literally). Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. Marky P. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
"(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... /\BratMan/\ wrote: "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? Oh yes. There are a couple of amateur radio societies who are dippingtheir toes into these waters, and they have websites. I remember reading them about a year ago and found it really interesting - if a little technicologically over my head. I can't remember the URL's off the top of my head, but I do have old bookmarks archived on backup CD's, so I'll see if I can fish them out for you. Amateur Television (ATV) has existed for decades. In addition to other bands, the 70cm band has been used for ATV activity and this band is situated just below the low-frequency end of the UHF broadcast band. Some domestic TV sets will tune down to these frequencies and receive these transmissions so in this respect you may be right, but I wonder if you are confusing legal amateur transmissions with illegal pirate broadcasts or even RSL stations like Channel M which are far from amateur. -- Graham %Profound_observation% |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
Graham. wrote:
"(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... /\BratMan/\ wrote: "(not quite so) Fat Sam" wrote in message ... Dave Farrance wrote: Currys, Dixons and PC World are to drop analogue-only tellys and DVD-recorders for units with built-in digital Freeview tuners. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7202014.stm About time too. But it amazes me that anybody is selling analogue tellys when the analogue-switchoff has already started. There's still elderly and technically-declined people buying analogue-only tellys with no idea that the tuner is going to stop working No...The tuner is not going to stop working. There might not be a signal there for the tuner to recieve, but the tuner will still be working, and should someone start broadcasting a signal within range, the tuner will start to pick it up. It's entirely likely that once the big TV channels stop using the analogue system, small amateur telly stations will start using it instead. There's already a growing amateur movement in this area. Is this a fact? Oh yes. There are a couple of amateur radio societies who are dippingtheir toes into these waters, and they have websites. I remember reading them about a year ago and found it really interesting - if a little technicologically over my head. I can't remember the URL's off the top of my head, but I do have old bookmarks archived on backup CD's, so I'll see if I can fish them out for you. Amateur Television (ATV) has existed for decades. In addition to other bands, the 70cm band has been used for ATV activity and this band is situated just below the low-frequency end of the UHF broadcast band. Some domestic TV sets will tune down to these frequencies and receive these transmissions so in this respect you may be right, but I wonder if you are confusing legal amateur transmissions with illegal pirate broadcasts Maybe...I'm often confused :-) |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:36:10 +0000, Marky P
wrote: snip Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. Marky P. Now you've done it (cue half-pint) |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:36:10 +0000, Marky P
wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:32:06 -0000, "Max Demian" wrote: Actually analogue TVs are very useful for Laserdisc owning opera lovers who want to read the teletext subtitles. But I realise we are a dying breed (possibly literally). Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. The subtitles are inserted by the TV, presumably visible on a wide screen. All my laserdiscs are 4:3. The player's remote has a 16:9 button - not sure what it does. -- Max Demian |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:18:02 +0000, Max Demian
wrote: Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. The subtitles are inserted by the TV, presumably visible on a wide screen. All my laserdiscs are 4:3. The player's remote has a 16:9 button - not sure what it does. It could either insert black bands down the sides of the picture, or remove the black bands from the top & bottom - though it would have to do the latter by duplicating lines to expand the height rather than increasing the vertical resolution as a DVD player is able to do when playing a 16:9 format DVD. Laserdiscs take a fixed rate digital sample of an analogue video signal, similar to how a WAV file is a digital sampling of an audio signal, whereas a DVD uses a completely different method of digitally storing the images. Thus you will not see pixelation or motion artifacts on a laserdisc playback, but you may see aliasing artifacts. -- Cynic |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:18:02 +0000, Max Demian
wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:36:10 +0000, Marky P wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:32:06 -0000, "Max Demian" wrote: Actually analogue TVs are very useful for Laserdisc owning opera lovers who want to read the teletext subtitles. But I realise we are a dying breed (possibly literally). Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. The subtitles are inserted by the TV, presumably visible on a wide screen. Ah, that would be closed caption then! What I had a problem with was Star Wars laserdisc. There's a scene in the bar that had subtitles in the black area that weren't visible on a widscreen telly. All my laserdiscs are 4:3. The player's remote has a 16:9 button - not sure what it does. Mine doesn't have a 16:9 button. Marky P. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
Cynic wrote:
Laserdiscs take a fixed rate digital sample of an analogue video signal, similar to how a WAV file is a digital sampling of an audio signal, whereas a DVD uses a completely different method of digitally storing the images. I'm no expert on Laserdiscs and LD players, never having owned one, but as far as I know, Laserdiscs store the video on the disc as _analogue_ composite video signal. So there need not be any digital sampling involved at all in the player - although there probably might be, in some devices. (But if there is, it's just for post-processing the signal in fancy ways and not an inherent feature or the storage format.) -- znark |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:00:19 +0200, "Jukka Aho"
wrote: Laserdiscs take a fixed rate digital sample of an analogue video signal, similar to how a WAV file is a digital sampling of an audio signal, whereas a DVD uses a completely different method of digitally storing the images. I'm no expert on Laserdiscs and LD players, never having owned one, but as far as I know, Laserdiscs store the video on the disc as _analogue_ composite video signal. So there need not be any digital sampling involved at all in the player - although there probably might be, in some devices. (But if there is, it's just for post-processing the signal in fancy ways and not an inherent feature or the storage format.) Well sort of! The laserdisc uses exactly the same storage principle as a CD or DVD, and so is only able to produce a binary level signal at the laser read head. Instead of the binary output being organised into bits and bytes however, each analogue sample is encoded as the *length* of each binary "1" ("length" being both the physical length of the pit on the disc and therefore also the length of time the reader is outputting each "1" level). This means that there is theoretically no granularity in the analogue output (i.e. any output value can be encoded), but it does not eliminate the fact that the analogue signal is sampled at intervals and therefore appears as a stepped output rather than smoothly changing. It is very similar to PCM (pulse code modulation). There is obviously audio also stored on the disc, and there are various ways that that was achieved, including the same "analogue" principle as the video, PCM and normal digital encoding - the player sorts out what type of disc is being played. Videodisc players can also play normal audio CDs. There is also two basic types of videodisc, one having a constant RPM for playback, and the other type having a constant recording density, so the RPM is faster for the inner tracks. The former type of disk stored one frame per track, and so the player could do a "freeze frame" on the former type of disk by holding the laser head over a single track, whilst freeze-frame was not possible on the latter type of disk because the player had no means of storing a frame. The playing time for constant RPM discs was however quite short - IIRC about 30 minutes per side. Laserdiscs are also double-sided, and many players required you to turn over the disc to play the second half of a movie (and some movies took more than one disc). The player I once owned could play both sides of the disc without manually changing it - though the movie would pause for an appreciable time whilst the laser picked up the second side and the direction of rotation of the disc was reversed. Laser discs are about the same size as an LP record (about 12 inches diameter), they are quite heavy and not at all flexible. -- Cynic |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:19:10 +0000, Marky P
wrote: On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:18:02 +0000, Max Demian wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:36:10 +0000, Marky P wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:32:06 -0000, "Max Demian" wrote: Actually analogue TVs are very useful for Laserdisc owning opera lovers who want to read the teletext subtitles. But I realise we are a dying breed (possibly literally). Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. The subtitles are inserted by the TV, presumably visible on a wide screen. Ah, that would be closed caption then! Yes, they are just the same as the 888 type subtitles for the deaf, except they are 168 for English, and other numbers for the other languages on some discs. There is also a 100 page, and others advertising other laserdiscs. What I had a problem with was Star Wars laserdisc. There's a scene in the bar that had subtitles in the black area that weren't visible on a widscreen telly. Was that a widescreen film? What would it do with a 4:3 TV? -- Max Demian |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:30:43 +0000, Max Demian
wrote: On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:19:10 +0000, Marky P wrote: On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:18:02 +0000, Max Demian wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:36:10 +0000, Marky P wrote: On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:32:06 -0000, "Max Demian" wrote: Actually analogue TVs are very useful for Laserdisc owning opera lovers who want to read the teletext subtitles. But I realise we are a dying breed (possibly literally). Laserdisc players were designed to be used with 4:3 tellys, even though they mostly contained widescreen films, so when viewing 'zoomed in' on a widescreen telly, you would lose any subtitles. The subtitles are inserted by the TV, presumably visible on a wide screen. Ah, that would be closed caption then! Yes, they are just the same as the 888 type subtitles for the deaf, except they are 168 for English, and other numbers for the other languages on some discs. There is also a 100 page, and others advertising other laserdiscs. What I had a problem with was Star Wars laserdisc. There's a scene in the bar that had subtitles in the black area that weren't visible on a widscreen telly. Was that a widescreen film? Yes What would it do with a 4:3 TV? Have wide black bars with the subtitles visible in the bottom bar. Marky P. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:59:40 +0000, Cynic
wrote: On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:00:19 +0200, "Jukka Aho" wrote: There is also two basic types of videodisc, one having a constant RPM for playback, and the other type having a constant recording density, so the RPM is faster for the inner tracks. The former type of disk stored one frame per track, and so the player could do a "freeze frame" on the former type of disk by holding the laser head over a single track, whilst freeze-frame was not possible on the latter type of disk because the player had no means of storing a frame. The playing time for constant RPM discs was however quite short - IIRC about 30 minutes per side. pedant mode on To use the correct phrases, constant RPM were CAV (constant angular velocity) and the 'long play' ones were CLV (constant linear velocity) pedant mode off My Pioneer LD player could also freeze frame CLV discs by storing a still frame in it's memory. Marky P. |
Could analogue tellys be returned as not fit for purpose?
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:27:09 +0000, Marky P
wrote: There is also two basic types of videodisc, one having a constant RPM for playback, and the other type having a constant recording density, so the RPM is faster for the inner tracks. The former type of disk stored one frame per track, and so the player could do a "freeze frame" on the former type of disk by holding the laser head over a single track, whilst freeze-frame was not possible on the latter type of disk because the player had no means of storing a frame. The playing time for constant RPM discs was however quite short - IIRC about 30 minutes per side. pedant mode on To use the correct phrases, constant RPM were CAV (constant angular velocity) and the 'long play' ones were CLV (constant linear velocity) pedant mode off My Pioneer LD player could also freeze frame CLV discs by storing a still frame in it's memory. In which case it was almost certainly first converting the input into conventional digital form rather than displaying the semi-analogue data straight off the disc. IOW a bolt-on post-processing feature rather than something inherent in the technology. I once owned a TV set that could do freeze-frame - and it could also display 4 different TV channels at the same time or display a second channel as a small picture in the corner of the channel being viewed, and a number of other clever but rather pointless tricks that I never used. My laserdisc player had a huge heap of features that were so complex to use that you'd need to sit with the manual if you every found the need to use them - and some features that I never got round to understanding what they actually achieved! You could, for example, enter a number of "bookmarks" based upon disc relative or chapter relative time or frames, then instruct the player to play back each section you had bookmarked in a specified order. I have no idea what possible reason a person might have for wanting to do such a thing! -- Cynic |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:28 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HomeCinemaBanter.com