The controversy of High. Def. bitrates.
 

When the companies decided for high. def. they imidiately desided that
more disc space was needed than the DVD could offer. But at the time they
were thinking in mpg2 and the bitrates needed for high def in that format.
In the meantime the compression technologies has been refined. But still I
see an exaggeration beyond all intellectual reason, when collumnists write
about "needed bitrates". One of my most beloved columnist writers the
extremly wise Daniel Eran Dilger on this:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/
(somewere on his site)

....Writes that to have DVD quality on the internet it would need a bitrate
of 5000 kilobits/sek! This is extremely exaggerated! A program like
"Handbrake" will make DVD quality with 1500 kilobits/sek. in x264
compression technik.
A converted DVD is about 1.2 Megabytes. Top notch quality! Default
template.

But what about the "huge space and the astronomical bitrates" needed for
High Def??-The answer is:"You don't!"
Even the pirates uploading High Def material for download are exaggerating
the bitrates, although their rip-offs are ment for people to download. The
have been listening to "the experts" comments about 25 megabit/sek for a
High Def movie.

It is so ridiculous if it was not for those fake estimates holding the
thought of Higher Definitions than DVD in an iron grip! And High Def over
the internet.
A film like Oceans 13 in a Definition of 1280 x 528 can be made superbly
by "Uncle Scrooge" who does not want to give away bitrates, but who is a
stingy son of a bitch! He will give You measely 1812.46 kilobits/sek. in
x264,- And You will not be able to see the difference!
The whole film-das ganze-will amount to 1.54 Gigabytes!!!

So maybe the whole Blueray record stuff is just a bubble! You could have 5
-Ocean 13's on an ordinary doubble layer DVD!-Don't just think about
it-try it!

And with the 1812.46 bitrate You would soon be streaming High Def films
over the internet! You could even give a little slack and go a little
higher!

--
Greetings from Jens "Lyrik" Bech.

The controversy of High. Def. bitrates.
 

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:14:07 +0100 Lyrik wrote:

| A film like Oceans 13 in a Definition of 1280 x 528 can be made superbly
| by "Uncle Scrooge" who does not want to give away bitrates, but who is a
| stingy son of a bitch! He will give You measely 1812.46 kilobits/sek. in
| x264,- And You will not be able to see the difference!
| The whole film-das ganze-will amount to 1.54 Gigabytes!!!

What about 1920x1080?

And how many pixels per frame, average, are in "error" after compression
and uncompression, compared to the original?

| So maybe the whole Blueray record stuff is just a bubble! You could have 5
| -Ocean 13's on an ordinary doubble layer DVD!-Don't just think about
| it-try it!

Sure, in "near SD" format. Do the calculations for 1920x1080 and let us
know the revised figures.


| And with the 1812.46 bitrate You would soon be streaming High Def films
| over the internet! You could even give a little slack and go a little
| higher!

Maybe 1280x528 will be accepted over the internet for a while. But true
full HD is what people will want, eventually. One person in an area will
want it first, and get the ultra-speed internet to do it. Then neighbors
will eventually want it, too. So recalculate.

And what about the upcoming 100GB quad layer disc?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The controversy of High. Def. bitrates.
 

Den 14.01.2008 kl. 15:34 skrev :

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:14:07 +0100 Lyrik wrote:

| A film like Oceans 13 in a Definition of 1280 x 528 can be made
superbly
| by "Uncle Scrooge" who does not want to give away bitrates, but who is
a
| stingy son of a bitch! He will give You measely 1812.46 kilobits/sek..
in
| x264,- And You will not be able to see the difference!
| The whole film-das ganze-will amount to 1.54 Gigabytes!!!

What about 1920x1080?

And how many pixels per frame, average, are in "error" after compression
and uncompression, compared to the original?
..............................
So if I could estimate bitrates for 1920 x 1080, then You would deny me
the "victory" until I made a count of distorted pixels in every
frame?;-))) Well my odds are not very good against Your wits-are they?;-)

I assume that You have no compression experience since You ask in this
way!? I have a lot!

I try to say it again. Go to MS showcase site. Look at the 1920 x 1080
samples. Let it sink in Your mind that a showcase will always look the
best. They use the best. They use IMAX films. They use between 8 and 9
megapixels in the very best showcase they can make! Not very much compared
to the HDDVD's 13-35 megabit/sec. But anyway an abundant bitrate becourse
it is a showcase, were You make Your finest.
I think it is a very wise bitrate 8-9000 to make the best. It demands that
You encode 2 pass. A Doubble layer disc can store about 8 Gigabyte data.
That is about 8 x 8 gigabit= 64Gigabit divided by 8500= 7.529.411 sec=
about 2 hours of high quality 1920 x 1080 on a doubble layer DVD.

But why is it not made? For several reasons. MS made some dual layer with
1920 x 1080 but they DRM protected them so they could only be played on a
PC with Windows. They had to be DRM-stripped to play on very few players
(Kiss and Linksys)that could play the format.
There is one player I know that will play H.264 high Def files on an
ordinary data DVD and that is Kiss 1600 now owned by Linksys.

I can off course make 1920 x 1080 in any format and have it played on my
TV. I use a MacBook for "HTPC" and there it goes. The most handy High Def
format is in my opinion 1280 x 720. It will be to comprehensive to lay
down all the evidence for that, but it has something to do with
flexibility. It can be made 4000 kilobits/sec. And you can always vary the
bitrate up and down to suit your needs. Up to 4000 kilobits/sec will
stream nicely over wireless.


--
Greetings from Jens "Lyrik" Bech.

The controversy of High. Def. bitrates.
 

"Lyrik" wrote in message
...
Den 14.01.2008 kl. 15:34 skrev :

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:14:07 +0100 Lyrik wrote:

| A film like Oceans 13 in a Definition of 1280 x 528 can be made
superbly
| by "Uncle Scrooge" who does not want to give away bitrates, but who is
a
| stingy son of a bitch! He will give You measely 1812.46 kilobits/sek.
in
| x264,- And You will not be able to see the difference!
| The whole film-das ganze-will amount to 1.54 Gigabytes!!!

What about 1920x1080?

And how many pixels per frame, average, are in "error" after compression
and uncompression, compared to the original?
..............................
So if I could estimate bitrates for 1920 x 1080, then You would deny me
the "victory" until I made a count of distorted pixels in every
frame?;-))) Well my odds are not very good against Your wits-are they?;-)

I assume that You have no compression experience since You ask in this
way!? I have a lot!

I try to say it again. Go to MS showcase site. Look at the 1920 x 1080
samples. Let it sink in Your mind that a showcase will always look the
best. They use the best. They use IMAX films. They use between 8 and 9

yada yada
--
Greetings from Jens "Lyrik" Bech.

Those 1080p MS Showcase files ARE NOT 1920 * 1080 (although your 'puter will
display them as such). They're actually 960 * 1080 (which BTW is still
1080p).
--
SoCalCommie
http://so-la-i.com/