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Should I quit Virginmedia?
In article , Eeyore rabbitsfriendsandrel
scribeth thus naza wrote: Now VM network does not have any of these [line related] problems, but rather contention problems which ADSL has NO. ADSL does NOT have any inherent significant contention problems. Not for ages. BT has fixed that ages back. That's why they don't quote a contention figure for MAX. It's still a popular myth however that there are such problems but it IS a myth. There may be congestion/contention problems over the *ISP's* network but that's down to them and YOUR decision to use them. but how many people get full 8mbps. Me for one ! Next to the exchange is it then?.. If on ADSL people where getting 8mbps then most likley ADSL providers would have the same issues as VM but that simply isn't the case. Chossing a Good ISP will not change the laws of physics, a good ISP will do a little more to resolve your issue's but thats about it. They cant really do that much to force BT to do something about you line. You simply don't understand that realities of how ADSL works. Idnet can say this (and they do) . "No contention on our network is achieved by not oversubscribing our broadband services and ensuring that bandwidth investment exceeds customer demand. This means that our goals of the highest performance and reliability can be maintained" http://www.idnet.net/solutions/homeofficebroadband.jsp# However they do say this;!... Please note: The maximum speeds that your line can support are determined by the equipment at the exchange within the first 10 days of service. Speeds are affected by your proximity to your local telephone exchange and the quality of your phone line. Actual download speeds can vary from below 2 Mbps during peak times, up to a maximum of 7.15 Mbps. -- Tony Sayer |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
On 30 Dec 2007, Eeyore wrote
Daffy Duck wrote: Just because your service was bad with VM doesn't mean everyone elses is as well.Mine's spot on but,unlike you,i'm not claiming that that means everyones is. Fair enough, but the comments in user groups illustrate that the vast majority of comments about VM are very negative. You appear to be lucky that you're on infrastructure originally operated by Telewest (Blueyonder) rather than NTL. How long that may give you an advantage is anyone's guess I reckon. Hmmm..... I've been with NTL for 7 years (Reading UBR); started with the 512 service in December, 2000, and was gradually increased to the 4meg service. I invariably get around 3850/3900 down and 380 up on speed tests; have had maybe 4 or 5 short outages over the years -- the sort of thing all ISPs suffer now and then; and haven't needed to have many dealings with support (thank god, from what I've read). Since I'm not a fanboy, I tend not to post in user groups saying how solid my connection is; but those who point out that user groups provide a skewed sample of customer satisfaction have quite a solid point. FWIW, I'm not enthralled -- at all -- with the way the company has gone since they (a) merged with TW/BY, and then (b) rebranded as VM. The fixed-line phone was always bad value; the new non- contract Virgin Mobile charges are considerably more expensive than the old ones were; the willy-waving over Sky was boringly juvenile (we cancelled the VM telly after that and went to Sky -- should have done it years ago if only for the Arts and Performance channels); the imported BY support department seems deeply flawed to me (way out of their depth, and often out of the corporate loop); charging 25p/min for support is absolutely inexcusable; and I've been migrating my e-mail to my own domain over the past year or so to keep my options open. But that said, I've always been happy with the speed and reliability of my ex-NTL *broadband* service, and won't drop that unless it goes the way the rest of the company seems to be going. And so far, the broadband continues to deliver what it says on the box. -- Cheers, Harvey |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
tony sayer wrote:
But if you unlucky then you will suffer like mad with them. There are somepeople who get the full 20meg all the time on VM's broadband, and yes I have seen it and used it wheras there are others like you who dont. You wont find out what speed you will get with VM until you join them, just like ADSL. ADSL is more predictable. You can get a good estimate of your line speed from the various online calculators. Once you have ADSL, backhaul capacity issues and not a problem as long as you're not a cheapskate looking to save the last penny. Simply choose a good ISP. With cable there's only one choice and it's rubbish. Graham I really think you have a very biased and blinkered view. I know of several people in locations off the VM network who would pay more than what they do for ADSL from any provider as after all with very rare exception it all runs over BT wires;!. Course some of the VM network was built better then others but some of the BT network wasn't all that clever either!... We have a location in Cambridge .. yes the hi-tech hub of England that struggles to get much more then 1 to 1.75 meg on a 5:1 contention service!... Better move here. I get 3 megs easily out here in the sticks.. Well oddly enough the fastest service we have is out in the fens at Friday bridge!.. Yes it does exist .. never found out why it was called that!... Has Grunty Fen got broadband yet? :-) Or even electricity? |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
HVS wrote:
(we cancelled the VM telly after that and went to Sky -- should have done it years ago if only for the Arts and Performance channels); But that said, I've always been happy with the speed and reliability of my ex-NTL *broadband* service, and won't drop that unless it goes the way the rest of the company seems to be going. So do you reckon you're paying a premium for having TV and broadband from different providers rather than one? David |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
but how many people get full 8mbps.
Me for one ! Exactly you for ONE. One person does not reflect the state of the whole network. Because you were getting crap speeds on VM does not mean that every single person who joins VM or are connected to VM are getting the same service. The Same for ADSL just becuase your getting a great service does not mean everyone else is. There are probally people out there who are with IDnet who dont get the same speeds as you, yet they will get the same level of customer service. How many Customers Does IDnet have exactly? |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
tony sayer wrote: Eeyore scribeth thus naza wrote: Now VM network does not have any of these [line related] problems, but rather contention problems which ADSL has NO. ADSL does NOT have any inherent significant contention problems. Not for ages. BT has fixed that ages back. That's why they don't quote a contention figure for MAX. It's still a popular myth however that there are such problems but it IS a myth. There may be congestion/contention problems over the *ISP's* network but that's down to themand YOUR decision to use them. but how many people get full 8mbps. Me for one ! Next to the exchange is it then?.. Around 800m as the crow flies. About 1.5 miles is what a BT engineer said. Actually, I'm currently only syncing at about 7500kbps. I must check if it's that cordless phone messing it up. Still good for an actual 5713 kbps download right now though. http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/res...8026&v=3137379 Graham |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
On 30 Dec 2007, Lobster wrote
HVS wrote: (we cancelled the VM telly after that and went to Sky -- should have done it years ago if only for the Arts and Performance channels); But that said, I've always been happy with the speed and reliability of my ex-NTL *broadband* service, and won't drop that unless it goes the way the rest of the company seems to be going. So do you reckon you're paying a premium for having TV and broadband from different providers rather than one? Yes, undoubtedly -- at least £10/month, maybe £15. The cost isn't the main factor, though; I'd rather pay a bit more to get what I want than a bit less to settle for what's been bundled. (If my circumstances changed, I'd obviously reassess the priorities, though.) FWIW -- and this is very much horses-and-courses, I realise -- I don't like bundled products of any kind, really. It's the old eggs-in-basket thing: on the computer, I use separate AV, firewall, and security programs rather than a suite; I have a separate scanner and printer rather than an all-in-one; separate answering machine and phone; would never buy a TV with an integral DVD player; that sort of thing. -- Cheers, Harvey |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
naza wrote: Uh ? With VM's 4 meg service I was normally down to 500kbps at peak times. With an '8 meg' service from Idnet over a BT line I rarely see less than 5 Mbps even at peak times and see peak speeds of 7 Mbps. Both figures from the speedtester at thinkbroadband.com and Bbmax You're talking complete and total nonsense about VM's alleged 'great' broadband. It's actually total ****e. I notice that you get quite bad service from VM. But looking at all the post's that are made by VM customers at the moment it seems that Virgin Broadband is as good as ADSL. More nonsense. They have hopelessly inadequate capacity (bandwidth). In other words, they've oversold the service. The chance of you getting a good speed depends on where you live, like ADSL depends on the length and quality of your line. Apparently the 'average' speed on ADSL is over 5 Mbps. Hardly bad and with ADSL2+ it'll be faster. part of the system is already ADSL2+ - the LLU providers are using it at least. Current measured speed, as opposed to nominal line rate from modem training seems to be significantly lower than your quoted number - care to give a reference? this one is from a survey a few months back and quotes 2.6 Mbps. http://www.computing.co.uk/vnunet/ne...nd-lags-behind latest Ofcom report i could find was for end 2006, "At the end of 2006 the estimated average headline connection speed was 3.8Mbit/s, up from 1.6Mbit/s in 2005. Headline speeds of over 2Mbit/s were used by 31% of homes and SMEs, compared to only 2% a year earlier." http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/cm/broadband_rpt/ With VDSL (in the pipeline), the twisted pair can deliver download speeds as high as 50 Mbps. Er, yes - but only if you are near enough to spit on the BT Exchange. VDSL seems to be optimised for street cabinet to end point, with only short copper links if you want anything like the headline speeds. The achievable speed drops off fairly rapidly with distance, so using it on the UK installed copper phone lines isnt going to give anything like those speeds for most users. VDSL is in use in Germany in places: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7098992.stm and switzerland http://www.swisscom.com/GHQ/content/...SL.htm?lang=en Notice from the pricing VDSL is around 10 times the cost of entry level DSL.... 1 thing worth remembering is that the VDSL manufacturer advertising will trumpet the highest achievable speeds, but the carriers that use it need it to be easy to use and reliable. What has happened so far is the DSL "stuff" that gets deployed for real use has a capped speed to improve consistency. Put simply if you live in an area where VM have got a good setup with sufficient backhaul then you will be fine and enjoy a more relieable and faster connection the possibly on ADSL. Where do they have sufficient backhaul ? Clearly not where I live. But if you unlucky then you will suffer like mad with them. There are somepeople who get the full 20meg all the time on VM's broadband, and yes I have seen it and used it wheras there are others like you who dont. You wont find out what speed you will get with VM until you join them, just like ADSL. ADSL is more predictable. You can get a good estimate of your line speed from the various online calculators. Once you have ADSL, backhaul capacity issues and not a problem as long as you're not a cheapskate looking to save the last penny. Simply choose a good ISP. With cable there's only one choice and it's rubbish. This might be how you see it - but since the speed for ADSL "last hop" already varies over a 10:1 or more range based on distance from the BT exchange, whereas cable is pretty much independent on where you are on the feed, i cant see how that can be true in general. now - comparing the BT / LLU implementations against some parts of the VM network may give a different picture..... the flip side is that the speed variations for ADSL are inherent to the technology - but cable backhaul is something VM can fix with some money and effort. Graham -- Regards - replace xyz with ntl "Eeyore" wrote in message ... |
Should I quit Virginmedia?
The message
from HVS contains these words: On 30 Dec 2007, Eeyore wrote Daffy Duck wrote: Just because your service was bad with VM doesn't mean everyone elses is as well.Mine's spot on but,unlike you,i'm not claiming that that means everyones is. Fair enough, but the comments in user groups illustrate that the vast majority of comments about VM are very negative. You appear to be lucky that you're on infrastructure originally operated by Telewest (Blueyonder) rather than NTL. How long that may give you an advantage is anyone's guess I reckon. Hmmm..... I've been with NTL for 7 years (Reading UBR); started with the 512 service in December, 2000, and was gradually increased to the 4meg service. I invariably get around 3850/3900 down and 380 up on speed tests; have had maybe 4 or 5 short outages over the years -- the sort of thing all ISPs suffer now and then; and haven't needed to have many dealings with support (thank god, from what I've read). Since I'm not a fanboy, I tend not to post in user groups saying how solid my connection is; but those who point out that user groups provide a skewed sample of customer satisfaction have quite a solid point. FWIW, I'm not enthralled -- at all -- with the way the company has gone since they (a) merged with TW/BY, and then (b) rebranded as VM. The fixed-line phone was always bad value; the new non- contract Virgin Mobile charges are considerably more expensive than the old ones were; the willy-waving over Sky was boringly juvenile (we cancelled the VM telly after that and went to Sky -- should have done it years ago if only for the Arts and Performance channels); the imported BY support department seems deeply flawed to me (way out of their depth, and often out of the corporate loop); charging 25p/min for support is absolutely inexcusable; and I've been migrating my e-mail to my own domain over the past year or so to keep my options open. But that said, I've always been happy with the speed and reliability of my ex-NTL *broadband* service, and won't drop that unless it goes the way the rest of the company seems to be going. And so far, the broadband continues to deliver what it says on the box. As an NTL customer, I'd say you've neatly summed it up. The service has been pretty well rock solid over the years, only suffering during the NTL/Telewest merger (where I suspect the Telewest customers had more to complain about) and now with the NTL/Telewest VM rebranding fiasco (although the situation seems to almost back to normal). The only issue I have with your assesment is over the introduction of the 25p/min tech support charge. My initial reaction was like yours, but since they still provide a free-fone access to a network status information service and the 25p/min charge is refunded when the problem proves to be of their making, I'm inclined to see their point of view. If you suffer an outage of service, the first thing to try is the free-fone status service to check whether they're already aware of (and dealing with) a problem local to your area). If your loss of service can be accounted for by such an already known problem, all you can do is sit tight anyway until it either resumes or their own repair deadline has passed (in which case you use the free-fone number again to get an update). You only resort to the 25p/min number when you're certain the problem _isn't_ one of your own making (typically windows problems, often due to malware infestation) and the modem lights indicate a cable problem that isn't being accounted for by the free-fone network status service. According to inside information, prior to the introduction of the 25p/min charge, tech support were spending a good 90% of their resources trouble shooting windows issues rather than modem/cable/network problems. I can well believe this and fully understand the reasoning behind the introduction of a very modest (by comparison to other ISP's) tech support charge. Provided the free-fone access to network status service remains in place, I have no problem with that 25p/min (refundable when the fault is a VM service issue) tech support number. -- Regards, John. Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying. The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots. |
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