BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

As Subject:-

http://www.freesat.co.uk/home.php

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?

Davy

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Davy wrote:
Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?

Yes


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Mark Carver wrote:
: Davy wrote:
: Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?

: Yes

While any FTA satellite receiver will continue to work only Freesat branded
ones will be able to use the new EPG and any features (like "red button"
interactive features - and MHEG digital text??)

I suppose some manufactures may update firmware on existing STBs to include
these.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Mark Carver wrote:

Davy wrote:
Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?

Yes

Uh huh. In the same sense that he'll still be able to use his DVD-player
and game console with Freesat, I presume.

--
Dave Farrance

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Dave Farrance wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

Davy wrote:
Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?
Yes

Uh huh. In the same sense that he'll still be able to use his DVD-player
and game console with Freesat, I presume.

Well yes he will :-)

The launch of Freesat won't alter his ability to receive the FTA channels he's
getting now. As pointed out the 'Freesat' EPG won't be available on his
present kit.


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Mark Carver wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

Davy wrote:
Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?
Yes

Uh huh. In the same sense that he'll still be able to use his DVD-player
and game console with Freesat, I presume.

Well yes he will :-)

The launch of Freesat won't alter his ability to receive the FTA channels he's
getting now. As pointed out the 'Freesat' EPG won't be available on his
present kit.

Again, strictly speaking, that's correct. It won't alter his current
ability to receive satellite FTA channels. ;-)

Davy, assuming that you didn't mean to say that you've got a Humax
CI-8100, then the answer to your question is "no". You won't be able to
receive Freesat with the 8100T because that's a terrestrial receiver and
that can't be changed.

--
Dave Farrance

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat? Is it because the
compression method will be different?
If it is going to be a problem then there must be an awful lot of people out
there with terrestrial PVRs who will then not want to move to FreeSat.

Davy

"Dave Farrance" wrote in message
...
Mark Carver wrote:

Dave Farrance wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

Davy wrote:
Will I be able to continue to use my Humax 8100T PVR with Freesat?
Yes

Uh huh. In the same sense that he'll still be able to use his
DVD-player
and game console with Freesat, I presume.

Well yes he will :-)

The launch of Freesat won't alter his ability to receive the FTA channels
he's
getting now. As pointed out the 'Freesat' EPG won't be available on his
present kit.

Again, strictly speaking, that's correct. It won't alter his current
ability to receive satellite FTA channels. ;-)

Davy, assuming that you didn't mean to say that you've got a Humax
CI-8100, then the answer to your question is "no". You won't be able to
receive Freesat with the 8100T because that's a terrestrial receiver and
that can't be changed.

--
Dave Farrance

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

On 4 Dec, 12:40, "Davy" wrote:
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat? Is it because the
compression method will be different?
If it is going to be a problem then there must be an awful lot of people out
there with terrestrial PVRs who will then not want to move to FreeSat.

I think those hoping that Freesat will work via their existing aerial
are going to be the most disappointed. ;-)

Cheers,
David.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

On Dec 4, 12:40 pm, "Davy" wrote:
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat? Is it because the
compression method will be different?
If it is going to be a problem then there must be an awful lot of people out
there with terrestrial PVRs who will then not want to move to FreeSat.

Digital TV via satellite uses quite different modulation, and
broadcast frequencies.
A DTT receiver has a totally different tuner section, to a satellite
one, though the actual decoding of video and audio from MPEG is the
same. You can't use one on the other's system.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

In article , Davy wrote:
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my area
BA12 6DG). *So will this not work with FreeSat?

No.

Is it because the
compression method will be different?

It won't receive satellite broadcasts because it's not a satellite receiver.

Rod.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Mark Carver wrote:

A DTT receiver has a totally different tuner section, to a satellite
one, though the actual decoding of video and audio from MPEG is the
same. You can't use one on the other's system.

I wonder whether Freesat will lead to a revival of the sidecar module
idea - i.e. the use of outboard tuner/demodulators (NIMs [1]) connected
via the DVB common interface. The notion was much touted when digital
broadcasting was still in the future, but died out, presumably as a
result of $ky's insistence on embedded CA in their 'own' STB.

Probably not, now that FTA boxes are so cheap...


[1] Network interface module.

--
Andy

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Andy Wade wrote:

I wonder whether Freesat will lead to a revival of the sidecar module
idea - i.e. the use of outboard tuner/demodulators (NIMs [1])
connected via the DVB common interface.

The Dreambox DM 600 PVR, DM 7025(+), and the company's upcoming HD
model - the DM 8000 (which is still vaporware, though) - all have their
tuners (NIMs) on separate user-replaceable cards. You can pick and
choose from DVB-T, DVB-S, and DVB-C, or even combinations in twin-tuner
models, so it's not only for satellite, either. The interface is not CI,
though, but a card edge connector... or at least it's not CI in the
usual PCMCIA / PC Card form factor.

Those tuner modules are even referred to as "NIMs" in the user interface
(or at least they used to be, in some firmware versions and some
menus...)

More information and pictures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreambox

http://dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_dm7025.php

http://dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_dm7025_technical.php

http://www.acmediacom.de/Artikel/Dig...Receiver/Dream
box/DM-7025-S/steck-tuner.jpg

http://www.dreamboxx.nu/e107_files/images/board70251iq.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/picture_gallery/

--
znark

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Davy" wrote in message
...
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my
area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat? Is it because the
compression method will be different?
If it is going to be a problem then there must be an awful lot of people
out
there with terrestrial PVRs who will then not want to move to FreeSat.

You have the classic dilemma:

a) Wait for the Freeview signal to improve.

b) Buy a new Freesat PVR + dish etc when (and if) they come on the market.
You should get a box with 'Freesat' label so that it supports the EPG, (and
interactive services).
Installing a dish is not that difficult as a DIY job
Quite likely you would get the HD channels

There will no doubt be some differences in the UK channels that you can
receive. The satellite box might well be able to receive foreign channels
with modifications to the dish/LNB arrangement.

--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Davy wrote:
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my
area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat?

No.

Is it because the
compression method will be different?

It won't receive satellite broadcasts because it's not a satellite
receiver.

I said something similar to a customer last week and he seemed a bit
nonplussed. "Err, does it make any difference?" he asked finally. "A box is
a box innit?"

Bill

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
i.fi...
Andy Wade wrote:

I wonder whether Freesat will lead to a revival of the sidecar module
idea - i.e. the use of outboard tuner/demodulators (NIMs [1]) connected
via the DVB common interface.

The Dreambox DM 600 PVR, DM 7025(+), and the company's upcoming HD model -
the DM 8000 (which is still vaporware, though) - all have their tuners
(NIMs) on separate user-replaceable cards. You can pick and choose from
DVB-T, DVB-S, and DVB-C, or even combinations in twin-tuner models, so
it's not only for satellite, either. The interface is not CI, though, but
a card edge connector... or at least it's not CI in the usual PCMCIA / PC
Card form factor.


So will they make a versions that can read the Freesat 7 day epg?


--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Michael Chare wrote:

The Dreambox DM 600 PVR, DM 7025(+), and the company's upcoming HD
model - the DM 8000 (which is still vaporware, though) - all have
their tuners (NIMs) on separate user-replaceable cards. You can pick
and choose from DVB-T, DVB-S, and DVB-C, or even combinations in
twin-tuner models, so it's not only for satellite, either.

So will they make a versions that can read the Freesat 7 day epg?

Is it somehow different from the standard DVB EPG as described in ETSI
EN 300 468 and ETSI TR 101 211?

The Dreamboxes run open-sourced PVR / set-top-box software called
"Enigma" (and in the newer models, "Enigma 2") on top of Linux. (The
remote-control wielding user does not normally see the Linux side at
all - only the "Enigma" user interface - but you can get your hands
dirty on compiling kernels and configuring the thing via a command line
interface, too, if you want to.)

If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to the
common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly available, I
guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support for it. They've
pretty responsive, especially if the feature is reasonable, can be
implemented with little effort, and if it is understood that it is a
deal-breaker for some particular market.

On the other hand, since it is open source, you could hack in the
support for whatever features you want yourself:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dream.../enigma2_devel
opment_toolchain/

....and send in your patches to DMM, to be added to the official
versions.

Or if that's not possible, there could be a someone, or a bunch of
someones, supporting a special "Freesat"-enhanced version of the
firmware on their own. (There are several unofficial, enhanced firmware
versions available for the Dreamboxes. Some of them seem to be geared
for a particular country, with country-specific additions.)

--
znark

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Jukka Aho wrote:

: Is it somehow different from the standard DVB EPG as described in ETSI
: EN 300 468 and ETSI TR 101 211?

Yes - it will be! It will have "red button" functionality via hidden
video/audio streams for one. Plus UK MHEG graphics, series link etc.

Exactly *HOW* different remains to be seen!

: If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to the
: common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly available, I
: guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support for it.

Things like this may be possible after Freesat starts!

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
ti.fi...
Michael Chare wrote:


If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to the
common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly available, I
guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support for it. They've
pretty responsive, especially if the feature is reasonable, can be
implemented with little effort, and if it is understood that it is a
deal-breaker for some particular market.

What is the best way of approaching them?


On the other hand, since it is open source, you could hack in the support
for whatever features you want yourself:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/enigma2_development_toolchain/

...and send in your patches to DMM, to be added to the official versions.

That could be a challenge..


--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Michael Chare wrote:

If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to
the common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly
available, I guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support
for it. They've pretty responsive, especially if the feature is
reasonable, can be implemented with little effort, and if it is
understood that it is a deal-breaker for some particular market.

What is the best way of approaching them?

Their web forum... (Yes, it's a mixed German + English language forum
with many of the discussions in German. Babelfish can come handy for
those whose German might be a little bit on the rusty side, but who
would like to decipher some of those German messages anyway...
Nonetheless, you can write your messages [and get replies] in English.)

http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/board/

....or, as a more direct approach, the #enigma2 IRC channel on the
FreeNode IRC network:

http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml

It would probably help if you can dig out the relevant FreeSat technical
standards and specifications, and "make your case" in clear technical
terms - not forgetting the bit where you tell _why_ this feature would
be so important; not only for you but for the other users. And if you're
able to provide non-filtered sample recordings of the entire multiplex,
or the EPG streams alone, all the better, since those would probably be
needed for assessing the differences between a Freesat EPG stream and a
standard DVB EPG stream and for testing any new code. That sort of
thing - to make things easy for someone who probably has a zillion
things on their to-do-list, and who needs to consider whether
implementing your suggestion would be worthwhile, make any sense, or if
you're able to provide enough technical information for making it
possible in the first place. (And don't forget the option of getting it
done by yourself or by someone else in the UK who desires the same
functionality... since the open source aspect is a big part of what the
Dreamboxes are all about.)

I have had good experiences with the DMM devs and with their responses
to some of my own suggestions and bug fix wishes... but a mere wish or
feature requrest isn't going to do much if there's no enough easily
accessible technical data for the devs to work on, or if the idea does
not sound particularly useful or needed as presented.

* * *

You might want to read this article as well, for some background
information on the "philosophy" of the Dreamboxes... and their
developers... even it is an old interview and only discusses an old
sat-only model which is based on different hardware than e.g. the
current flagship, the DM 7025:

http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7482684956.html

* * *

But still, I'm kind of interested in what's the actual _difference_
between the Freesat EPG and the standard DVB EPG... are they
incompatible with each other in some fundamental way?

--
znark

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
You have the classic dilemma:

a) Wait for the Freeview signal to improve.
Won't be till 2012 in my area and by then my 3 year old Humax 8100T PVR will
be well aged so will probably need a new PVR anyway.

b) Buy a new Freesat PVR + dish etc when (and if) they come on the market.
You should get a box with 'Freesat' label so that it supports the EPG,
(and
interactive services).

Because of poor DTT reception here I had intended to move to FreeSat as soon
as it is available in the Spring of 2008. But I would not want to buy a
first generation FreeSat PVR and I guess that FreeSat PVR developments wont
settle down till at least a year after that - say 2009. Digital TV without
PVR is no use to me.

So the decision is between:
- FreeSat with PVR in 2009 (replace all STBs, PVR, install ugly aerial,
replace distribution amp (?), replace distribution co-ax throughout house)

OR

- Improved FreeView in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?


Davy

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Davy wrote:
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
You have the classic dilemma:

a) Wait for the Freeview signal to improve.
Won't be till 2012 in my area and by then my 3 year old Humax 8100T
PVR will be well aged so will probably need a new PVR anyway.

b) Buy a new Freesat PVR + dish etc when (and if) they come on the
market. You should get a box with 'Freesat' label so that it
supports the EPG, (and interactive services).

Because of poor DTT reception here I had intended to move to FreeSat
as soon as it is available in the Spring of 2008. But I would not
want to buy a first generation FreeSat PVR and I guess that FreeSat
PVR developments wont settle down till at least a year after that -
say 2009. Digital TV without PVR is no use to me.

So the decision is between:
- FreeSat with PVR in 2009 (replace all STBs, PVR, install ugly
aerial, replace distribution amp (?), replace distribution co-ax
throughout house)

OR

- Improved FreeView in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?


Davy

The switchover date for Mendip is April 2010, can't remember the name of the
Warminster relay but it must be digital after that date.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

On Dec 5, 10:45 am, "Adrian A" wrote:
View in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?

Davy

The switchover date for Mendip is April 2010, can't remember the name of the
Warminster relay but it must be digital after that date.

Westwood ? In any case all of Mendip's relays will switch the same
night as Mendip itself, or at least that's the plan !

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Davy" wrote in message
om...

"Michael Chare" wrote in message

- Improved FreeView in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?


See:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/

Select 'I am in the aerial installation trade'

or may be:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/postcodec...o49b75ithf2s61


--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Mark Carver wrote:
On Dec 5, 10:45 am, "Adrian A" wrote:
View in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?

Davy

The switchover date for Mendip is April 2010, can't remember the
name of the Warminster relay but it must be digital after that date.

Westwood ? In any case all of Mendip's relays will switch the same
night as Mendip itself, or at least that's the plan !

Yes, Westwood was the one I was thinking of. I realise it changes at the
same time as Mendip that's why I said it would be digital after that date.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
i.fi...
Michael Chare wrote:

If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to
the common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly
available, I guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support
for it. They've pretty responsive, especially if the feature is
reasonable, can be implemented with little effort, and if it is
understood that it is a deal-breaker for some particular market.

What is the best way of approaching them?

Their web forum... (Yes, it's a mixed German + English language forum with
many of the discussions in German. Babelfish can come handy for those
whose German might be a little bit on the rusty side, but who would like
to decipher some of those German messages anyway... Nonetheless, you can
write your messages [and get replies] in English.)

http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/board/

I've tried a post in the English section. I will see if there is any
reaction.

But still, I'm kind of interested in what's the actual _difference_
between the Freesat EPG and the standard DVB EPG... are they incompatible
with each other in some fundamental way?

Freesat will not use the 7 day EPG in the broadcast stream like for example
RTL in Germany.

If you read the threads in this forum you will know as much as I do at the
moment.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/f...play.php?f=142



--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

On Dec 5, 12:59 pm, "Adrian A" wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:

Westwood ? In any case all of Mendip's relays will switch the same
night as Mendip itself, or at least that's the plan !

Yes, Westwood was the one I was thinking of. I realise it changes at the
same time as Mendip that's why I said it would be digital after that date.

Yes sorry Adrian, I had a mental block and thought you meant months or
years, rather than what will probably only be hours, by your use of
the word 'after'.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
"Davy" wrote in message
om...

"Michael Chare" wrote in message

- Improved FreeView in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?


See:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/

Select 'I am in the aerial installation trade'

thanks Michael, that is a really useful site, especially with the
installation trade tick box.

It shows that the signal from Stockland and Mendip will dramatically improve
after switchover. But due to surrounding hills Rowbridge is the only
transmitter I can use but, sods law, the table shows the Rowbridge service
after but not before switchover - so I cannot tell if it will improve.
However the proposed Rowbridge VP service looks promising - if it ever
happens.

Davy

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Adrian A" wrote in message news:VJidnb3kM- So the
decision is between:
- FreeSat with PVR in 2009 (replace all STBs, PVR, install ugly
aerial, replace distribution amp (?), replace distribution co-ax
throughout house)

OR

- Improved FreeView in 2012 (no changes needed). But do I have any
guarantee that the signal WILL be improved in my area BA12 6DG?


Davy

The switchover date for Mendip is April 2010, can't remember the name of
the
Warminster relay but it must be digital after that date.

Adrian,
thanks for that but unfortunately I cannot receive from Mendip cos I am in
the shadow of a local hill and cannot receive Warminster cos the Wiltshire
Downs are in the way.

Davy