BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

In article , Davy wrote:
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my area
BA12 6DG). *So will this not work with FreeSat?

No.

Is it because the
compression method will be different?

It won't receive satellite broadcasts because it's not a satellite receiver.

Rod.

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Mark Carver wrote:

A DTT receiver has a totally different tuner section, to a satellite
one, though the actual decoding of video and audio from MPEG is the
same. You can't use one on the other's system.

I wonder whether Freesat will lead to a revival of the sidecar module
idea - i.e. the use of outboard tuner/demodulators (NIMs [1]) connected
via the DVB common interface. The notion was much touted when digital
broadcasting was still in the future, but died out, presumably as a
result of $ky's insistence on embedded CA in their 'own' STB.

Probably not, now that FTA boxes are so cheap...


[1] Network interface module.

--
Andy

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Andy Wade wrote:

I wonder whether Freesat will lead to a revival of the sidecar module
idea - i.e. the use of outboard tuner/demodulators (NIMs [1])
connected via the DVB common interface.

The Dreambox DM 600 PVR, DM 7025(+), and the company's upcoming HD
model - the DM 8000 (which is still vaporware, though) - all have their
tuners (NIMs) on separate user-replaceable cards. You can pick and
choose from DVB-T, DVB-S, and DVB-C, or even combinations in twin-tuner
models, so it's not only for satellite, either. The interface is not CI,
though, but a card edge connector... or at least it's not CI in the
usual PCMCIA / PC Card form factor.

Those tuner modules are even referred to as "NIMs" in the user interface
(or at least they used to be, in some firmware versions and some
menus...)

More information and pictures:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreambox

http://dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_dm7025.php

http://dream-multimedia-tv.de/english/products_dm7025_technical.php

http://www.acmediacom.de/Artikel/Dig...Receiver/Dream
box/DM-7025-S/steck-tuner.jpg

http://www.dreamboxx.nu/e107_files/images/board70251iq.jpg

http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/picture_gallery/

--
znark

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Davy" wrote in message
...
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my
area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat? Is it because the
compression method will be different?
If it is going to be a problem then there must be an awful lot of people
out
there with terrestrial PVRs who will then not want to move to FreeSat.

You have the classic dilemma:

a) Wait for the Freeview signal to improve.

b) Buy a new Freesat PVR + dish etc when (and if) they come on the market.
You should get a box with 'Freesat' label so that it supports the EPG, (and
interactive services).
Installing a dish is not that difficult as a DIY job
Quite likely you would get the HD channels

There will no doubt be some differences in the UK channels that you can
receive. The satellite box might well be able to receive foreign channels
with modifications to the dish/LNB arrangement.

--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
In article , Davy wrote:
Just to clarify, I have a Humax 8100T which receives DTT (poorly in my
area
BA12 6DG). So will this not work with FreeSat?

No.

Is it because the
compression method will be different?

It won't receive satellite broadcasts because it's not a satellite
receiver.

I said something similar to a customer last week and he seemed a bit
nonplussed. "Err, does it make any difference?" he asked finally. "A box is
a box innit?"

Bill

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
i.fi...
Andy Wade wrote:

I wonder whether Freesat will lead to a revival of the sidecar module
idea - i.e. the use of outboard tuner/demodulators (NIMs [1]) connected
via the DVB common interface.

The Dreambox DM 600 PVR, DM 7025(+), and the company's upcoming HD model -
the DM 8000 (which is still vaporware, though) - all have their tuners
(NIMs) on separate user-replaceable cards. You can pick and choose from
DVB-T, DVB-S, and DVB-C, or even combinations in twin-tuner models, so
it's not only for satellite, either. The interface is not CI, though, but
a card edge connector... or at least it's not CI in the usual PCMCIA / PC
Card form factor.


So will they make a versions that can read the Freesat 7 day epg?


--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Michael Chare wrote:

The Dreambox DM 600 PVR, DM 7025(+), and the company's upcoming HD
model - the DM 8000 (which is still vaporware, though) - all have
their tuners (NIMs) on separate user-replaceable cards. You can pick
and choose from DVB-T, DVB-S, and DVB-C, or even combinations in
twin-tuner models, so it's not only for satellite, either.

So will they make a versions that can read the Freesat 7 day epg?

Is it somehow different from the standard DVB EPG as described in ETSI
EN 300 468 and ETSI TR 101 211?

The Dreamboxes run open-sourced PVR / set-top-box software called
"Enigma" (and in the newer models, "Enigma 2") on top of Linux. (The
remote-control wielding user does not normally see the Linux side at
all - only the "Enigma" user interface - but you can get your hands
dirty on compiling kernels and configuring the thing via a command line
interface, too, if you want to.)

If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to the
common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly available, I
guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support for it. They've
pretty responsive, especially if the feature is reasonable, can be
implemented with little effort, and if it is understood that it is a
deal-breaker for some particular market.

On the other hand, since it is open source, you could hack in the
support for whatever features you want yourself:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dream.../enigma2_devel
opment_toolchain/

....and send in your patches to DMM, to be added to the official
versions.

Or if that's not possible, there could be a someone, or a bunch of
someones, supporting a special "Freesat"-enhanced version of the
firmware on their own. (There are several unofficial, enhanced firmware
versions available for the Dreamboxes. Some of them seem to be geared
for a particular country, with country-specific additions.)

--
znark

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Jukka Aho wrote:

: Is it somehow different from the standard DVB EPG as described in ETSI
: EN 300 468 and ETSI TR 101 211?

Yes - it will be! It will have "red button" functionality via hidden
video/audio streams for one. Plus UK MHEG graphics, series link etc.

Exactly *HOW* different remains to be seen!

: If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to the
: common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly available, I
: guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support for it.

Things like this may be possible after Freesat starts!

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

"Jukka Aho" wrote in message
ti.fi...
Michael Chare wrote:


If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to the
common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly available, I
guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support for it. They've
pretty responsive, especially if the feature is reasonable, can be
implemented with little effort, and if it is understood that it is a
deal-breaker for some particular market.

What is the best way of approaching them?


On the other hand, since it is open source, you could hack in the support
for whatever features you want yourself:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/znark/dreambox/dm7025/enigma2_development_toolchain/

...and send in your patches to DMM, to be added to the official versions.

That could be a challenge..


--
Michael Chare

BBC/ITV Freesat website launched
 

Michael Chare wrote:

If the Freesat EPG is somehow non-standard (i.e. does not adhere to
the common DVB standards), but the specifications are openly
available, I guess you could ask the DMM developers add in support
for it. They've pretty responsive, especially if the feature is
reasonable, can be implemented with little effort, and if it is
understood that it is a deal-breaker for some particular market.

What is the best way of approaching them?

Their web forum... (Yes, it's a mixed German + English language forum
with many of the discussions in German. Babelfish can come handy for
those whose German might be a little bit on the rusty side, but who
would like to decipher some of those German messages anyway...
Nonetheless, you can write your messages [and get replies] in English.)

http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/board/

....or, as a more direct approach, the #enigma2 IRC channel on the
FreeNode IRC network:

http://freenode.net/irc_servers.shtml

It would probably help if you can dig out the relevant FreeSat technical
standards and specifications, and "make your case" in clear technical
terms - not forgetting the bit where you tell _why_ this feature would
be so important; not only for you but for the other users. And if you're
able to provide non-filtered sample recordings of the entire multiplex,
or the EPG streams alone, all the better, since those would probably be
needed for assessing the differences between a Freesat EPG stream and a
standard DVB EPG stream and for testing any new code. That sort of
thing - to make things easy for someone who probably has a zillion
things on their to-do-list, and who needs to consider whether
implementing your suggestion would be worthwhile, make any sense, or if
you're able to provide enough technical information for making it
possible in the first place. (And don't forget the option of getting it
done by yourself or by someone else in the UK who desires the same
functionality... since the open source aspect is a big part of what the
Dreamboxes are all about.)

I have had good experiences with the DMM devs and with their responses
to some of my own suggestions and bug fix wishes... but a mere wish or
feature requrest isn't going to do much if there's no enough easily
accessible technical data for the devs to work on, or if the idea does
not sound particularly useful or needed as presented.

* * *

You might want to read this article as well, for some background
information on the "philosophy" of the Dreamboxes... and their
developers... even it is an old interview and only discusses an old
sat-only model which is based on different hardware than e.g. the
current flagship, the DM 7025:

http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7482684956.html

* * *

But still, I'm kind of interested in what's the actual _difference_
between the Freesat EPG and the standard DVB EPG... are they
incompatible with each other in some fundamental way?

--
znark